Would you play…

[Remjin]

Re: Would you play…

 

The surprise factor, to my mind, is part of the fun... but pre-generated could be fun as well if your group can roleplay it well enough. However, I personally don't have that much invested in "favorite powers" and such, just anything interesting is fun to me... whereas I do have an overall favorite character type, though I'm not stuck to it, of the action hero type. Mostly because I tend to be very compulsive at times... =)

[schir1964]

Re: Would you play…

 

Ah, here it is!

 

Genesis Setting (Crystal Room)

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45918

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Weldun]

Re: Would you play…

 

The surprise factor' date=' to my mind, is part of the fun... but pre-generated could be fun as well if your group can role-play it well enough. However, I personally don't have that much invested in "favourite powers" and such, just anything interesting is fun to me... whereas I do have an overall favourite character type, though I'm not stuck to it, of the action hero type. Mostly because I tend to be very compulsive at times... =)[/quote']I don't have much in the way of favourite powers either. I'll play almost anything, to the point where I have even been referred to as a "gamer-slut". But not everyone can wrap their heads around every power concept, and that doesn't make them bad role-players. This is where the problem can arise. The idea in gaming is that we all enjoy ourselves, not just the PCs (some or all) or the GM. Some people aren't very subtle, so I would hate to see them stuck with a power set that requires a lot of subtlety, like a shapeshifter.

[Lumbering Ox]

Re: Would you play…

 

I don't have much in the way of favourite powers either. I'll play almost anything' date=' to the point where I have even been referred to as a "gamer-slut". But not everyone can wrap their heads around every power concept, and that doesn't make them bad role-players. This is where the problem can arise. The idea in gaming is that we all enjoy ourselves, not just the PCs (some or all) or the GM. Some people aren't very subtle, so I would hate to see them stuck with a power set that requires a lot of subtlety, like a shapeshifter.[/quote']

 

 

When I played, the DM picked the sort of powers he though we would like, and he knew us well enough to do a good job.

 

In my case I am rather brickish in outlook. Although I would never take it myself, my surfer dude character absobed damage as strength, it was neato, and suitable to my. Also a laugh as the character in question was more of the stoned guy from the movei Fast Times type.

 

1: We were never assigned points. The more we buffed our original characters, the less we go as powers later on [i assume]

2: We never did find out exactly how many points our powers were worth, and only found out our powers as they came into play. I remember getting shot, and not dying, but rather being stronger. It was a nice suprise.

[Alverant]

Re: Would you play…

 

I remember running an El-Hazard campaign where this was involved. Part of the campaign setting is that normal people from Earth and pulled into El-Hazard and given special powers. You don't know what your powers are, but you discover them quickly. The BESM was run more as roleplaying with less combat so the powers weren't as important. I don't remember what I gave everyone but I know one person's powers only worked when he was calm. After your flight fails a few times when you get excited, you quickly realize the limitation. But I only gave a few powers along the same theme (fire aura), what we're talking here is more complex.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Would you play…

 

My biggest problem with it is this phrase.

 

and then the GM would randomly assign you your powers,

 

Actually, this word.

 

random

 

If the GM would agree to make the powers connect to the character somehow, I'd be fine with that. Heck, if the GM would agree to make the powers connect to each other I'd be fine with that.

 

But I have visions of playing a brilliant scientist... who ends up being able to turn into stone, unleash magical bursts from his nostrils, has super-hearing, a regeneration factor, +30 COM, and the ability to dissociate into mist. An ungodly, unmanageable, hideous monstrosity of a character generated by purely random, capricious die rolls.

 

Y'know, sorta like what I've ended up being forced to play every time my buddies and I got together and played Heroes Unlimited....

[McCoy]

Re: Would you play…

 

My biggest problem with it is this phrase.

 

and then the GM would randomly assign you your powers,

 

Actually, this word.

 

random

 

If the GM would agree to make the powers connect to the character somehow, I'd be fine with that. Heck, if the GM would agree to make the powers connect to each other I'd be fine with that.

 

But I have visions of playing a brilliant scientist... who ends up being able to turn into stone, unleash magical bursts from his nostrils, has super-hearing, a regeneration factor, +30 COM, and the ability to dissociate into mist. An ungodly, unmanageable, hideous monstrosity of a character generated by purely random, capricious die rolls.

 

Y'know, sorta like what I've ended up being forced to play every time my buddies and I got together and played Heroes Unlimited....

Or five different attacks, all paying full END, CON 10, SPD 2, and no movement powers or resistand defenses.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Would you play…

 

Don't even joke about that, man. O_o That's just wrong... entirely too possible, but wrong.

[Robyn]

Re: Would you play…

 

I have asked about this before (see here; the last of the replies to that chain is at post #89).

 

I know that there are a lot of people who' date=' if given a character wth a large mental powers EC, would never use anything except Mind Control, to free someone else from a compulsion.[/quote']

 

If the power set is presented to a player along with another character sheet, one determining personality and background history as well as powers, then you may have a situation where the player is trapped into playing a character they are not interested in. What happens if it's just the powers, though? Not "your character has had these powers all along, and integrated them with her personality", but "your character, with the personality you already established for her, discovers that she can do this". What if the GM has you all roll up characters, and then announces during the game "You've just discovered you can turn invisible."?

 

Now while this can make for a nice one-shot for and afternoon's roleplaying' date=' if it's a campaign, they're now stuck with potentially over 100 points spent, that they'll never use. Essentially,you eliminate the greatest strength of a standard-points-buy system. Everybody of the same points, can be assumed to be of [u']roughly[/u] equal power, overall.

 

And you'll still get vast differences in effectiveness, because some players know how to properly (fully) apply their strengths, and others do not. Furthermore, you'll have some self-imposed restrictions due to roleplaying (the character with a Pych Disad such as Pacifict, which restricts the usage of many offensive powers). There are circumstances under which characters will not be using powers that they have. This isn't cause for concern over game balance.

 

Extended playing-out of finding out what you can do. This can take a looong time' date=' and can lead to bad things. Person A finds out real quickly, while person B avoids trying/is unlucky in activation rolls/etc. and knows nothing, avoids group. Players get bored, etc.[/quote']

 

A game without powers is a boring game?

 

I'd suggest getting through the unfamiliarity section pretty fast. Perhaps have some staged events worked out that will demonstrate the powers quickly - like Spider-Man almost getting hit by a car - he senses danger' date=' makes a huge leap, and sticks to the wall - get a lot out of the way pretty quickly.[/quote']

 

Seems a lot like GM railroading to me. "Here you are, these are your powers, you know that this is how they work, now go play my game."

 

Fast forward a bit "you experiment a bit' date=' here's your sheet".[/quote']

 

Except that this entails fast-forwarding through what is potentially the most fun part of the entire game;

 

The surprise factor' date=' to my mind, is part of the fun... [/quote']

 

Self-exploration is a theme within my games. If your own mind (and your own powers) is "uncharted territory", unknown to you (as Remjin said, a surprise), this opens up an entirely new realm for roleplaying.

 

3)don't drag out the "discovering your powers" phase for too long' date=' unless that's the point of the whole campaign.[/quote']

 

I don't think it needs to be the point of the whole campaign, to do well as a recurring (major) theme; characters should, in my campaign at least, constantly be asking themselves "What am I?" and "How does this stuff work?", because those questions are essential to their identity, their nature, and their ability to use their powers.

 

This was mostly possible because we were a group of roleplayers who focused on the story and characters rather than powers and combat...

 

Emphasis mine.

 

I also try to think of my character in non powered terms first and foremost anyhow.

 

This is, I think, one of the critical issues here. HERO, as has been pointed out before, is not just Champions. Powers, per se, should not be the defining measure of a character. We are not playing powersets here; we are playing characters. We are playing people.

 

If all we're after is the "fantasy" aspect of gaming, where we can pretend to have real superpowers, and the rest is just flavor; then, yes, matching up powers to player mentality is a necessary thing. But if we're playing, say, a game where skills are more important than powers, and no power is able to (consistently, repeatedly) overshadow the skills, then powers don't need to match. Where skills are vital, powers can give you an edge; you won't be required to use them, though. The same goes for a game where powers are less important than roleplaying; one where powers can alter a situation, but roleplaying is still required to succeed.

 

I do have an overall favorite character type' date=' though I'm not stuck to it, of the action hero type. Mostly because I tend to be very compulsive at times... =)[/quote']

 

Do you mean impulsive?

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Would you play…

 

A game without powers is a boring game?

 

...

 

Seems a lot like GM railroading to me. "Here you are, these are your powers, you know that this is how they work, now go play my game."

Sorry for snipping the context that these replied to, but....

 

At any rate, no, and not necessarily.

 

It's not that a game without powers is a boring game. However, I've heard lots of horror stories where Character A discovers, quickly, that he's got power/skill suite X.

 

Character B, on the other hand, has a streak of bad luck (or any of a number of other incidents) occur that keeps him from discovering any abilities (or, at least, any consistently useful ones) for the first, oh, half or more of the campaign.

 

I don't think that I have to have the same 'toys' as everybody else to have fun. I don't even think that I have to have as many toys as everybody else.

 

However, if everybody else is finding their cool powers and abilities, and I'm still effectively Jarvis Wilkins, Hot Dog Salesman Extraordinaire... I'm going to get sick of it pretty fast unless things change quick.

 

On the other hand, if you find out your powers relatively early on, or at least a number of them (say, a defense power, movement power, and offense power in the first few sessions), then you can at least function and don't have to cower in the corner praying during every fight because you don't know if any of your powers will keep you from dying or not.

 

Does it railroad them? Hardly. You don't even need to reveal all of them, just enough that they get a feel for what they can do. You can still experiment and such, giving you a feel for the character and at least some sort of hint what direction they should experiment in.

[nexus]

Re: Would you play…

 

As others' have said, only if I trusted the GM and the other players. I would also throw in that I'd prefer to not play myself in such a game. I play RPGs for escapism.

[garou]

Re: Would you play…

 

. . . who ends up being able to turn into stone' date=' . . . +30 COM. . .[/quote']

What, you've never heard of chisled good looks?

[Robyn]

Re: Would you play…

 

Sorry for snipping the context that these replied to, but....

 

At any rate, no, and not necessarily.

 

The context shouldn't be required here. I may refer to points made in one of my other replies, though.

 

Character B' date=' on the other hand, has a streak of bad luck (or any of a number of other incidents) occur that keeps him from discovering any abilities (or, at least, any consistently useful ones) for the first, oh, half or more of the campaign.[/quote']

 

I don't see much difference between not finding out about powers, and finding out about powers that (for various psychological reasons) you won't use anyway.

 

However' date=' if everybody else is finding their cool powers and abilities, and I'm still effectively Jarvis Wilkins, Hot Dog Salesman Extraordinaire... I'm going to get sick of it pretty fast unless things change quick.[/quote']

 

This is where campaigns that emphasize skills or roleplaying over powers (and combat) can excel. The character doesn't suddenly become useless just because they still have only their existing set of skills and resources to draw upon in the situations they encounter. The group isn't required to seek out only those parts of life in which they would be challenged, nor are they prevented from being exposed to the situations which were once challenging but now, with the assistance of their "edge", may be a little less so.

 

It is still up to player ingenuity to figure out how to make their abilities useful in their daily lives, though.

 

I would also throw in that I'd prefer to not play myself in such a game. I play RPGs for escapism.

 

Escapism of the "not just normal people" variety, or of the "other than yourself" variety? You're the second person to say that you'd rather not play yourself, when the question didn't propose that, and I'm wondering if the objection (in both cases) would be better formulated as "I don't want to play characters that are similar to myself in ways that I consider rather essential to a game, but so fundamental to what I consider RPG's to be (for) that I won't speak of them directly."

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Would you play…

 

I don't see much difference between not finding out about powers' date=' and finding out about powers that (for various psychological reasons) you won't use anyway.[/quote']

 

I agree. Heck, I could see that being even more irritating, if they were the right combinations of power and reason I won't use them.

 

("Generate large metal things and throw them through people" RKA combined with CvK, bad. Fire powers combined with fear of fire... I could actually get behind that, myself.)

 

This is where campaigns that emphasize skills or roleplaying over powers (and combat) can excel. The character doesn't suddenly become useless just because they still have only their existing set of skills and resources to draw upon in the situations they encounter. The group isn't required to seek out only those parts of life in which they would be challenged, nor are they prevented from being exposed to the situations which were once challenging but now, with the assistance of their "edge", may be a little less so.

 

It is still up to player ingenuity to figure out how to make their abilities useful in their daily lives, though.

 

Oh, I agree. However, that's where the "detailed specifics of the campaign" question comes up.

 

If it's a game where the character's (baseline normal) skills and attributes can still be effective, then it's not nearly as big an issue.

 

If it's, as I generally prefer, more four-color superheroics... well, while the rest of the group is throwing down with Firewing (or, heck, even Bulldozer), I want my relatively normal guy to be way the heck out of the line of fire until I know he won't get creamed by the first (not so, he's only got a 3-6 DCV to work with after all) lucky shot to come his way.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Would you play…

 

Ive had VERY bad experiences in games like this in the past. For one, I loathe playing myself. If I wanted to play myself, Id go out and have adventures! Second, the GM never gives me the powers I want. Third, I loathe playing myself as a character. Fourth, its almost impossible to get a write-up of a real Player as a game character and have everyone at the table think that everyone was written up "correctly". Either someone is -far- more powerful than they really would be, or someone else is watered down to unrecognizability. Ive gamed with Special Forces officers and paperboys. How do you write them both up in the same game and have everyone feel that its "fair", even if you DO manage to get them on paper accurately?

 

YMMV

 

I haven't had quite as bad of experiences with play yourself games, but I didn't read the post that way. It sounded like he was asking about stating out as norrmals and then adding powers, which is a game that can work. Heros or Wildcards are both good examples of the genre.

[schir1964]

Re: Would you play…

 

What if the GM were to allow the character to have an influence on the general type/kind of powers they might receive, but the GM takes care of the details?

 

This is sort of the approach I took with my Crystal Room Scenario. I allowed certain characters the chance to "figure" some things out and then be able to take an action to try to influence what kind of powers they wanted. So thier actions became a guideline for the powers with all the gritty details left to me. They would then have to still figure out what powers they had, but they were at least in the general area of interest for the character (and thus the player).

 

Would this approach be better or worse than just randomly assigning them (which I would never do myself).

 

- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

Re: Would you play…

 

As for being a player, I'm not sure about purely random powers. I would want to have some connection to them via my character's personality and my own personality.

 

I'm playing a character right now (Prism) which I built with Amnesia and a Mystery disadvantage. I like the playing the innocent who is trying to figure things out and is on quest for the truth about his own past and origins.

 

That's just me. (8^D)

 

What's that archetype called.... Delver or something like that?

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Bud Gray]

Re: Would you play…

 

Personally, I love the idea. Especially with that new show, Heroes, still fresh in everyone's minds. Didn't the old 4th edition supplement, The Mutant Files, have a random power generator in it? That would solve the random powers thing. If memory serves me I think it balanced everything out pretty well so you would avoid the silly combos that often popped up in V&V.

[Robyn]

Re: Would you play…

 

What if the GM were to allow the character to have an influence on the general type/kind of powers they might receive' date=' but the GM takes care of the details?[/quote']

 

Let the characters know that they have some hidden potential inside of them, then let them go through various situations trying to unlock it. In any situation, the PC can ask "Do I have a power that would help with this?", as specifically or as generally as they would like. The more specific the request, the higher their penalties on the roll to determine if they have such a power. So, if they're completely stuck or don't particularly care what power they get, they can say "Anything?" and have a decent chance (but still small) of being able to spend reserve (for powers) XP on it. The utility of saying "hidden potential, still locked away" is that there are no contradictions when a PC receives powers that would have made a difference in previous situations (even Constant powers; they just hadn't "surfaced" yet).

[Weldun]

Re: Would you play…

 

And you'll still get vast differences in effectiveness' date=' because some players know how to properly (fully) apply their strengths, and others do not. Furthermore, you'll have some self-imposed restrictions due to roleplaying (the character with a Pych Disad such as Pacifict, which restricts the usage of many offensive powers). There [i']are[/i] circumstances under which characters will not be using powers that they have. This isn't cause for concern over game balance.

Robyn is correct that the effectiveness of a character depends on the skill of the player, but you get this with any campaign. In my own Supers campaign, the party brick is played by someone completely new to the game, but through carefull suggestions on my part and from the more experienced players, along with some experimentation of his own, he has learned to use his capabilities effectively. Then again, one of the advantages is that a brick is a very forgiving archetype compared to others.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Would you play…

 

Personally' date=' I love the idea. Especially with that new show, Heroes, still fresh in everyone's minds. Didn't the old 4th edition supplement, The Mutant Files, have a random power generator in it? That would solve the random powers thing. If memory serves me I think it balanced everything out pretty well so you would avoid the silly combos that often popped up in V&V.[/quote']

 

Not sure about 4th, but Champions 5th has a pretty nice random power set generator.

[Remjin]

Re: Would you play…

 

I do have an overall favorite character type, though I'm not stuck to it, of the action hero type. Mostly because I tend to be very compulsive at times... =)

 

Do you mean impulsive?

 

errr... oops, yes, impulsive.

[Robyn]

Re: Would you play…

 

Robyn is correct that the effectiveness of a character depends on the skill of the player' date=' but you get this with any campaign.[/quote']

 

Hence "you'll still get"; it applies just as much in the "discover your powers during play" as it does in regular campaigns. No matter how "equal" everyone is on points alone, there are going to be other factors which tilt this balance. Adding one more (you don't know about your powers) will hardly stand out.

[Weldun]

Re: Would you play…

 

Hence "you'll still get"; it applies just as much in the "discover your powers during play" as it does in regular campaigns. No matter how "equal" everyone is on points alone' date=' there are going to be other factors which tilt this balance. Adding one more (you don't know about your powers) will hardly stand out.[/quote']...But the problem is made worse when players are given power sets that don't match their mind sets.

[TheRavenIs]

Re: Would you play…

 

Well I am playing in a PBEM that incrdbil, on these boards, is running on yahoo groups. (it is stellarknights of the two yahoo group links in my sig) I like the way he did it, we did the basic Character, he then made the picks on who got what power set, and powers within that set.

 

It works, but then again the people playing in it know the GM and each other and we all work well together, so that helps.