Dr Archeville Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Re: The worst Retcon of all time Talking about aging heroes. . . that's one of the reasons why "Unforgiven" was such a good movie, 'cos William Munney was kind of "The Man With No Name" grown old and having lost is L337 bada$$ gunfighting skillz. And if my calculations are correct, the original X-Men would all be in their 60s by now, and Magneto and Professor X would be staring down 80 in the face. That would make for a very different X-Men movie. Your calculations are not entirely correct, since Marvel says "everyone* started 10-12 years ago," not "their careers started in 1961" (or whenever). That's why Stark's origin keeps moving, from the Vietnam War, to the Gulf War, to the current War in Afghanistan. This makes for a very odd case with Captain America. A comic published in 2005 showed him at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, regretting that he had not been there in the fight b/c he had not yet been found & revived. If he was thawed/revived just 12 years ago -- 1997 -- then he missed not only the Vietnam War, but also the entire existence of the USSR, the fall of the Berlin Wall, and quite a bit more. It won't be long before there could be a comic that shows Cap standing at the WTC site in NYC, regretting not being there on 9/11 because he was still frozen. But even saying "the New Age of Heroes started X years ago" isn't enough, if characters don't age/experience time consistently (or have some reason for not aging/experiencing time consistently). In Young Avengers, it was stated the Kree/Skrull War ended 16 years ago. (Note: the President at the time would have been George H.W. Bush**) Franklin Richards was born shortly before that. He should be 16 now. The Power Pack kids should be the same age... and they are, since they're high school aged now. Kitty Pryde joined the X-Men shortly after the time Franklin was born, and was 13 then. She should be around 29 now. How old is Luna, daughter of Quicksilver and Pietro? And to really muddy the waters, the "Battle Damage Report" published after the end of Civil War puts the freak-out first flight of the Fantastic Four at 13 years ago (during the Clinton years)... 3 years before they helped stop the Kree/Skrull War! Over in DC, consider the Teen Titans Arsenal and Wonder Girl grew up and had kids. How old is Arsenal's daughter now? How long have Donna's kid and husband been dead? How long was Wally active as Kid Flash? How long has Barry been dead and Wally been Flash? Or Batman & Robin (Dick Grayson): by most accounts Wayne is mid-20s (or older) when he became Batman. Dick is usually anywhere from 10-12 when he becomes Robin. He must have been Robin for years (we see a kid Robin to teen Robin progression); he's clearly been Nightwing for sometime. Dick is now clearly at least early to mid-20s himself. Which makes it hard to justify a Bruce Wayne who is much younger than 40. Explanation: it's all b/c Superboy-Prime keeps hitting Scarlet Witch and rewriting realities. * Everyone except the Punisher, his Vietnam War origin has always remained the same. So even if he joined when he was 18 at the tail end of the war, he should be in his early 50s by now; he could easily be older. ** which someone could turn into the real reason behind Marvel 's Civil War: George W. Bush was trying to put the genie that broke out of its bottle during his daddy's presidency back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Re: The worst Retcon of all time Marvel has a problem moving forward with their Iconic merchandise though. They have shown (In Max stories with Appropriate age Nick Fury and Frank Castle), that it can be done, and done well. Problem is though since they have always been "The World Outside your Window", they are kind of stuck with those characters, so they have to update the origins every once in awhile and pray we nit Pickers don't jump on the Franklin Richards stuff and beat them to death with it. DC has shown, very well in fact that the Oldies are the Goodies. Timelines in comics has always been tough to do really if you ever have to tie into a real world reference. Some you can do it with, others, eventually it will catch up to you. It's a huge risk though to move a franchise out of the familiar, and into the "evolution of" format. They've tried that with Fantastic Four a few times. Folks don't attach to the un-familiar very well. ~Rex...thinks the shortpacked reference is pretty funny. Everything IS actually funnier, with Batman in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Re: The worst Retcon of all time I was basing my calculations from the dates on Jean Grey's tombstone in "The Phoenix Saga" storyline. But it's probably been moved a dozen-odd times since then. So their secret power is immortality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Re: The worst Retcon of all time Heh, that tombstone is probably one of the few things that hasn't moved. Big difference between their writers now, and their writers then. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodkins Odds Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 Re: The worst Retcon of all time Just to clarify: I was gladdified to find that it was later de-retconned (reretconned? Have we finally verbed the term Retcon? Is there, in other words, a proper usage guide?) The official term is Stetcon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egyptoid Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Re: The worst Retcon of all time howzabout when DC brought in the old Red Circle heroes: Crusader, Shield, Web, Jaguar ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahuna's bro Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Re: The worst Retcon of all time oh i don't know i kind of liked them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKJAM! Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Re: The worst Retcon of all time It remains to be seen. I like the new version of the Web--still a hopeless loser in his personal life, but for much different reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Re: The worst Retcon of all time "Pokemon the First Movie" While that cartoon is funny it makes the mistake of over estimating Hollywood. DC will be able to keep Zorro as the movie because Hollywood will keep remaking it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Re: The worst Retcon of all time Actually, I'm REALLY enjoying the new Red Circle Stuff. I've always kind of liked them anyway, but then, I remember when characters like Steel Sterling, and such were all interesting alternatives out there, back in the day..... The New Web, very very interesting campaign idea. Nice new take on the Shield and Inferno, and Hangman was always fun. There's a lot of good that can come out of this so we'll see if DC can pull it off. SC, has been pulling off a LOT of good stuff lately. I'll actually forgive them for turning Carter hall into a Black Lantern, if they give me some Good Red Circle material. It's nice, to see Heroes, "Down in the Dirt" again so to speak. ~Rex....says Check out the Cover to The Web #5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahuna's bro Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Re: The worst Retcon of all time whoops i thought the post referred tod dc's first use of the archi heros in the IMPACT line not thecurrent versions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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