Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

[PhilFleischmann]

I have noticed recently that some people seem to misunderstand the meaning of these power-balancing icons. They seem to think that

 

a) The Warning Sign (Triangle with Exclamation Point), replaced by Magnifying Glass in 5ER means, "Examine this power closely for abuse, because it could easily be included in a construct that is more powerful than its final cost might indicate."

 

which is correct, and that

 

The Stop Sign means the same thing only moreso.

 

which is incorrect. The Stop Sign means, "unresticted use of this power might disrupt or spoil the story line." Telepathy can easily spoil a mystery story, but it's not that easily abused, since it doesn't really do any direct harm to the target.

 

Let's remember what they mean.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

 

Er... any particular reason that you've brought this up in the discussion section? I don't see much of a discussion. More like a statement.

 

Not sniping, just curious as to what led to this particular post.

 

Hazard: Careful, this is a doozy.

 

Stop: Careful, this will screw your story arc if you aren't paying attention, and you are under NO obligation to allow it in game if that's the outcome you feel you'll have.

 

That's how I use 'em. Caution, and Stop. Stop meaning, you know. STOP.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

 

Just wanted to remind people so as to avoid confusion and not to embarrass anyone in particular. I've seen people make the assumption that a stop sign is the same as a warning sign/magnifying glass only more intense. We need to remember that they are qualitatively different in meaning.

[casualplayer]

Re: Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

 

I see both of them as catnip for Munchkins, and if I see multiple occurances of these category's powers on the same character sheet I go over it with a, well, magnifying glass.

[schir1964]

Re: Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

 

This is how I would sum them up:

 

Caution Sign:

Powers which may be extremely effective depending on circumstances, and thus may affect the GM's storyline somewhat.

The GM should carefully examine these powers before permitting them in his campaign.

 

Stop Sign:

Powers which may radically alter a scenario depending on circumstances, and thus may affect the GM's storyling substantially.

The GM should carefully examine these powers before permitting them in his campaign.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Sean Waters]

Re: Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

 

I have noticed recently that some people seem to misunderstand the meaning of these power-balancing icons. They seem to think that

 

a) The Warning Sign (Triangle with Exclamation Point), replaced by Magnifying Glass in 5ER means, "Examine this power closely for abuse, because it could easily be included in a construct that is more powerful than its final cost might indicate."

 

which is correct, and that

 

The Stop Sign means the same thing only moreso.

 

which is incorrect. The Stop Sign means, "unresticted use of this power might disrupt or spoil the story line." Telepathy can easily spoil a mystery story, but it's not that easily abused, since it doesn't really do any direct harm to the target.

 

Let's remember what they mean.

 

 

It does no harm at all to go back to the basics and examine them now and again

 

I'm sure I'm guilty of this kind of confusion on a semi-regular basis.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

 

Stop: Careful' date=' this will screw your story arc if you aren't paying attention, and you are under NO obligation to allow it in game if that's the outcome you feel you'll have.[/quote']

 

Heh, I'm under no obligation to allow any power at all. If a character doesn't have a rationale for energy blast, I won't let him have it.

 

Keith "You're going to have to tell me where you got that Ice Cream Cone, Mister! From whom? Oh, never mind..." Curtis

[Guest TheUnknown]

Re: Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

 

Just as an point of discussion powers that do not have either symbol can be consider in those categories based on the campaign specifics or GM bias anyway so in the End it's a mute point because The GM has the last say whether it follows the rules or his bias interpretation of them. Just an observation.

[Guest TheUnknown]

Re: Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

 

Heh' date=' I'm under no obligation to allow any power at all. If a character doesn't have a rationale for [i']energy blast[/i], I won't let him have it.

 

Keith "You're going to have to tell me where you got that Ice Cream Cone, Mister! From whom? Oh, never mind..." Curtis

 

That only proves my point GM's bias directs the game regardless of the rules thus the Human torch has to explain to you why he need an energy blast

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

 

It only looks like an Ice Cream Cone to those that aren't paying attention. What, you think I can smite you with a little Baskin Robbins? 31 Flavors gonna catch you a beat down? No, but hey.

 

Keith has a point, really - Why an Ice Cream Cone? Why an EB? It all depends on the world & story structure; that isn't 'GM Bias' that's "GM 101: What you want to allow in your setting." Can I throw my Ice Cream Cone? Er, yes, and to great effect since it returns automatically (OIF). Boomerang Ice Cream Cone of Smiting. Booyah!

 

But to the core point, Unknown, and to thread derail a moment, "What, being on fire, having a half ton of Martial Arts, flight and a damage shield aren't good enough? You HAVE to have an Energy Blast? REALLY? DO YOU?" It's a design consideration; so yeah, the Human Torch would have to explain to me, if the setting I were running didn't have a lot of EBs, why he has one.

[Susano]

Re: Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

 

STOP = "Slow To Observe Points"

[Wolfgar]

Re: Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

 

The Stop Sign means, "unresticted use of this power might disrupt or spoil the story line." Telepathy can easily spoil a mystery story, but it's not that easily abused, since it doesn't really do any direct harm to the target.

 

Let's remember what they mean.

 

Let's also remember that "abuse" means regularly getting more utility for the power than they paid for. You've got to be careful linking "abuse" with damage/killing capacity alone; it's easy to think of it as the most important game balance factor, but it's far from the only one.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

 

STOP = "Slow To Observe Points"

No. That was my whole point.

 

STOP = "See if This Obstructs the Plot"

[Wolfgar]

Re: Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

 

No. That was my whole point.

 

STOP = "See if This Obstructs the Plot"

 

Yeah, but SITOTP just wouldn't be as memorable.

 

"Stupid Trick Overcomplicates Plotlines"

 

I say "Stupid Trick" because, honestly, that's where it causes the most problems. Several Stop sign powers are genre appropriate and needed to accomadate certain powers. A Space Opera game without FTL Travel would be a hurtin' puppy, for example. Is usually when the powers are just signed off on completely unchecked because the PC thought it would be nifty that it's most likely to be a hassle.

 

Say a player wants to be able to shrink down to microscopic size and enter some sort of "microverse", defined as Extra-Dimensional Movement. Now not only is this potentaially abusive, but it's completely derailing, as the GM has to figure out what's going on in this dumb microverse and essentially run an entirely seperate adventure for this player if the rest of the party has no way to follow along.

[zornwil]

Re: Warning Sign/Magnifying Glass vs Stop Sign

 

Good point Phil.

 

The book specifically says:

 

"Powers that may be extremely effective in certain circumtances are marked with a (warning symbol)." The advice to the GM corresponding to these is to "carefully examine abilities built with (warning symbol)"

 

"Powers that can radically alter a scenario are marked with a (stop sign)." The advice to the GM corresponding to these is to "carefully consider the impact of these Powers before permitting them in a scenario."

 

I can also see some gray between the two, depending on play style and whether play is a series of combats or convoluted plots with investigations, etc..