HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

[Diamond Spear]

How would you write up a martial artist who has multiple styles, when the styles themselves affect his stats? For instance a martial artist has two different styles, one which is fast but less damaging and one that is slower but more powerful. The first style might have DEX 18, SPD 4 and Package #1 for martial maneuvers (including damage classes) and powers and the second style might have DEX 12, SPD 2 and Package #2 for martial maneuvers (including damage classes) and powers.

 

Would multiform (with a 1/2 phase transformation) be the best way of doing this or would it make more sense to have a pool of points using the Characteristics power that could be changed (only from one pre-defined set to another) as a 1/2 phase action?

[OddHat]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

Well, I usually represent Multiple Styles by buying maneuvers and combat skill levels, plus a KS for each style. When the Combat Skill Levels are slotted one way, the maneuver is a "Kung Fu Tiger Style ______"; when the levels are slotted another way, it's a "Shotokan Karate ______".

 

If you want actual DEX and SPD changes, multiform is probably the simplest approach. Or a Multipower with STR, DEX and SPD in it.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

How would you write up a martial artist who has multiple styles, when the styles themselves affect his stats? For instance a martial artist has two different styles, one which is fast but less damaging and one that is slower but more powerful. The first style might have DEX 18, SPD 4 and Package #1 for martial maneuvers (including damage classes) and powers and the second style might have DEX 12, SPD 2 and Package #2 for martial maneuvers (including damage classes) and powers.

 

Would multiform (with a 1/2 phase transformation) be the best way of doing this or would it make more sense to have a pool of points using the Characteristics power that could be changed (only from one pre-defined set to another) as a 1/2 phase action?

 

I'd ignore the SPD aspect.

 

For the fast vs slow and powerful aspect, I'd just use manuevers to represent it. The fast style has things like Defensive Strike (+1/+3 no damage bonus) while the slow powerful style has things like offensive strike (-2/+1 +4d6). The fast vs slow aspect represented by CV differences.

 

If you want to make the difference greater, add in some levels only with the "fast" manuevers and maybe some Lightning Reflexes "only when performing XYZ manuevers".

[zornwil]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

This brings to mind, has anyone tried putting characteristics into a multipower??? Kind of a weird idea, but I would think it would work, and might address something such as this where you have many varaitions of chars.

[OddHat]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

This brings to mind' date=' has anyone tried putting characteristics into a multipower??? Kind of a weird idea, but I would think it would work, and might address something such as this where you have many varaitions of chars.[/quote']

 

Sure. Most of my lower point Superman Family homage characters can't work any other way.

 

Heck, that's where we get Ultraboy.

[zornwil]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

Sure. Most of my lower point Superman Family homage characters can't work any other way.

 

Heck, that's where we get Ultraboy.

I should have restated a bit - I meant certain base chars in their entirety, for example, a character who has "0" STR but an MP with various configurations. Is that how you've done it?

 

Oddly, I never have, and I've done lots of cheesy (by some people's thinking) things with chars in ECs and MPs in general.

[OddHat]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

I should have restated a bit - I meant certain base chars in their entirety, for example, a character who has "0" STR but an MP with various configurations. Is that how you've done it?

 

Oddly, I never have, and I've done lots of cheesy (by some people's thinking) things with chars in ECs and MPs in general.

 

I've never done "0" and then the whole stat in a MP, though I could see it for something like a ghost or Ultrababy.

 

For a ghost, one slot might be "Compound Power: Persistent Desolidification + Persistent Invisibility" and another might be "Compound Power: 140 Points in Physical Characteristics." Interesting idea.

[zornwil]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

I've never done "0" and then the whole stat in a MP, though I could see it for something like a ghost or Ultrababy.

 

For a ghost, one slot might be "Compound Power: Persistent Desolidification + Persistent Invisibility" and another might be "Compound Power: 140 Points in Physical Characteristics." Interesting idea.

Yeah, I was thinking you could follow this into a unique martial arts style build, with STR, DEX, maybe SPD, other chars incorporated. Basically I was thinking of this as a way to get around having to go the Multiform route (more on that in another thread...).

[pinecone]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

You might buy a buncha MA moves the Multi with some stats and levels to mod for styles and stances...

 

u "Tiger style" +10 STR,no figured, REnd>0

u "Dragon style" +5 Dex, no figured

 

and like that....sorta like the stances multi in UMA but almost like a Totem multi instead....or, it being Hero, mix and match!

[Diamond Spear]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

The only problem there is how to handle stats that are REDUCED when switching from one style to another. Hmmmm…….

[pinecone]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

The only problem there is how to handle stats that are REDUCED when switching from one style to another. Hmmmm…….

 

Side effect..or I would make the lowest stats the Base, and just build from there...if my dex is 15 and every other style adds 1 or more Dex then my "Sterlak" style is slow and powerfull by comparison...like say the "Tiger style" in the example...

[Diamond Spear]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

Side effect..or I would make the lowest stats the Base' date=' and just build from there...if my dex is 15 and every other style adds 1 or more Dex then my "Sterlak" style is slow and powerfull by comparison...like say the "Tiger style" in the example...[/quote']

 

 

I had in mind a style that potentially forced a character to function at less than his base attribute for some reason. I thought about side effects but the only way to have a known number for the result is to go with standard effect and then you run into the problem that the amount of points needed to be lost won’t always be divisible by 3. Again I say Hmmmm……..

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

The only problem there is how to handle stats that are REDUCED when switching from one style to another. Hmmmm…….

 

Not really a problem. Just a matter of perception.

 

+10 Dex, not when using slow style (assign limit value here)

 

+20 Str, only when using slow style (assign limit value here)

 

The various multipower proposals are probably a more efficient way to build it. Then just say that the dex slot is the default one, so he gets "slower than normal" when he switches to another slot/style.

 

The solution is not to lower his stat in circumstance X, which is what you seem to want to do, but instead to increase his stat in all circumstances except X.

[Checkmate]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

The problem I see with putting at least the SPD changes in a Multipower is that you could have an action in every phase. Simply change to a speed that has an action in the next phase. Then things like flash would be much less effective against you.

 

DEX changes provide a minor problem of the GM having to change is battle order which can be a pain.

[Guest TheUnknown]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

The problem I see with putting at least the SPD changes in a Multipower is that you could have an action in every phase. Simply change to a speed that has an action in the next phase. Then things like flash would be much less effective against you.

 

DEX changes provide a minor problem of the GM having to change is battle order which can be a pain.

 

bY RULES SPD CHANGES DO NOT OCCUR UNTIL THE BEGINNING OF THE NEXT/NEW TURN.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

The problem I see with putting at least the SPD changes in a Multipower is that you could have an action in every phase. Simply change to a speed that has an action in the next phase. Then things like flash would be much less effective against you.

 

DEX changes provide a minor problem of the GM having to change is battle order which can be a pain.

 

As noted, speed changes by the book happen at the end of the turn. I don't generally apply that rule, but I do set the character's next action at the later of his next phase under the Speed he changed from and the next phase of the Speed he changed to. For example, if you had a Speed of 4, acted on Phase 3 and then changed your Speed to 6, your next action would be on phase 6 (later of Ph 4 for Spd 6 and Ph 6 for Spd 4), after which you would use the 6 SPD chart.

 

DEX changes are a problem if the GM feels the need to write down everyone's DEX to track the order of combat. I recall gaming with one GM and realizing an AE Selective DEX drain would guarantee a victory. If someone's DEX was drained, he'd go "Sex 27 - VillainMan". Someone would say "wasn't his DEX drained?", the GM would say "Oh yeah" and then forget VillainMan when his new DEX came along.

 

I count down DEX in each phase, and keep the villain character sheets sorted in order of current DEX. DEX changes, he gets re-filed to his new DEX.

[pinecone]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

The problem I see with putting at least the SPD changes in a Multipower is that you could have an action in every phase. Simply change to a speed that has an action in the next phase. Then things like flash would be much less effective against you.

 

DEX changes provide a minor problem of the GM having to change is battle order which can be a pain.

 

Yeah, I'd strongly suggest that the speed vari part gets lost. Because speed change is a royal pain.

There is no need to have a dex drain on your strong style though....just have a bonus for everything else...the game effect is that you are more clumsy and slow with your "Bear style" than with all the others....

[OddHat]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

Yeah, I'd strongly suggest that the speed vari part gets lost. Because speed change is a royal pain.

There is no need to have a dex drain on your strong style though....just have a bonus for everything else...the game effect is that you are more clumsy and slow with your "Bear style" than with all the others....

 

Yup. You could also just build your "Slow Clumsy Style" so that all the maneuvers took a delayed phase and were at a minus to OCV and DCV. You'd get cheap, powerful maneuvers with the drawback that you'd appear slow and clumsy when using them.

[Jaxom]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

I've been thinking about this very problem for a PC I wanted to scratch up... For those of you who have seen Kung Fu Hustle, think about the last fight where the baddie is changing styles... (And for those who have not seen it, go out and rent it!)

 

Based on the other thread (about multiform) I was scratching my head and thinking about other options... If I understand the suggestions here, you can either do all the powers (and maneuvers and stuff) that you want in a form and then give them lockouts (can't use in any other form) but I am not thinking of a "time to switch forms" limitation like the limits you'd have on a multiform or multipower (yes, you could do an extra-time limitation but then you'd have to add an "only on the first use" type clause and things rapidly get wonky). Alternatively I could do a multipower and make each form a complex slot but then I forget... Am I limited to the active point cost in a single slot or can I link 5 powers at the active point cap in a single slot? In both cases I wind up with the artificial construct of a base form with the minimum stats and abilities of all forms (i.e. 0 running, base STR and DEX and SPD) and then buy up from there which I can do but which has always bothered me for silly personal reasons.

 

I think any build that provides sufficiently different forms is gnona have to be closely monitored to avoid munchkinning (for the same reason discussed in the multiform thread). The goal here is not to munchkin but to provide a very different flavor to each form... I suspect that the multipower is not a bad way to go since it makes learning a new form expensive (20-30 points in a fixed slot plus appropriate skills for the base form) which is an improvement over the multiform and it has the construct already in place for switching from one form to another over a fixed amount of time.

 

Anyone got (and willing to post) a character who looks like the big-bad from Kung Fu Hustle or have more ideas on really wildly varying forms like you'd find in the wire-fu movie genre?

[OddHat]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

The Beast in Kung Fu Hustle wasn't (imo) using Multiform for "Toad Style". He was using a power or multipower slot (depending on how you build it) he hadn't bothered to use earlier.

 

I usually handle switching styles with a simple KS: Style and combat skill levels, allowing the character to switch those levels around to simulate the benefits and drawbacks of his new style.

 

That said, here's a character with Lion's Roar Kung Fu.

[pinecone]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

Yeah I saw it as "Oh he went with the move through slot"...

[Jaxom]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

Sorry to resurrect this after so long, but I finally got a chance to come back and look for it.

 

I understand where Odd Hat is coming from regarding the Beast in "toad" form. Maybe I can use his example character to provide a better definition of the question. From his link, we have a character with "Lion's Road" style. That style includes some custom designed maneuvers. What if I want to use the old paradigm that some maneuvers are not compatible with other styles...

 

So Leon goes out and learns Drunken style next for the versatility it gains him. If he cannot use certain maneuvers from Lion's Roar style when using Drunken style you could accomplish this using Lockouts. Now, what I need is a way to create a suite of powers and maneuvers which represent a "style" and a way to limit them all by requiring a fixed amount of time (I was thinking maybe a 1/2 phase action of incantations and gestures - the kata) to enter the style and make the powers and maneuvers available. This is particularly appropriate/interesting when something like Drunken style is very defensive while Lion's Roar is very offense-oriented. It makes a difference which one you are in when you go to abort to dodge, for example.

 

(And yes, I recognize that Drunken style may not be the best choice there... I am ignoring the need to imbibe a bunch of alcohol to get the effect. If it makes you happier, use Crane style or something else instead. What I am looking for is mutally exclusive groups of maneuvers and powers and possibly characteristic adds, not a discussion of what the appropriate limitations are for Drunken style in particular.)

[Kirby]

Re: HELP - Multiple Martial Arts Styles

 

How would you write up a martial artist who has multiple styles' date=' when the styles themselves affect his stats?[/quote']I've found that the easiest way is to do like Green Dragon's multipower in Champions on page 199.

 

However, this being HERO, I think the multiform idea has merits, but (if I were your GM), I'd have some concern that you'd lose some quality points on the character by spending them on the multiform.

 

YMMV.