Mollusk Man Build

[Just Joe]

OK, this is not at all what I should be doing right now, but . . .

 

I'm thinking about this characterr idea I've had on the back burner for a while now. It's an intelligent mollusk-like alien (not very man-like, but I thought "Mollusk Man" was a catchy title). It has a very tough shell that it can open and close. Ideally, I'd like to have a nearly continuous range of states from tightly closed shell to wide open, but at a minimum, I want three states: closed, partly open, and wide open. The main difference between the states is the activation roll on the armor (probably none, 14-, and 11-), but there are other differences as well, especially regarding movement (and it probably can't attack when closed -- unless by mental powers or something that I don't currently have planned).

 

This does not seem like it should be such a complex build, but I'm kind of stuck. If activation rolls affected active points, I could probably do it using a multipower plus lockout, but alas they don't. I tried messing around with multiform, but it did not seem particularly appropriate (the forms are too similar, the build too expensive, etc.). However, since I'm not particularly adept with multiform builds, I may be missing something. Or maybe there's a third approach that has not crossed my feeble mind.

 

What would you do?

[TaxiMan]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

Transform: sand into pearl.

 

Running: 0"

Swimming: 0"

Flying: 0"

Tunneling: 0"

Teleport: 0"

 

Clinging: +40 STR

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

Transform: sand into pearl.

 

Running: 0"

Swimming: 0"

Flying: 0"

Tunneling: 0"

Teleport: 0"

 

Clinging: +40 STR

 

Instead of selling off all of his Running take a limitation:

Micro-Scale (1"=1") and call it "Enter the Slow Zone".

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

If activation rolls affected active points' date=' I could probably do it using a multipower plus lockout, but alas they don't.[/quote']

In this case, I'd just go ahead and use a Multipower, ignoring the Active Point rule (i.e., let it be a Real Point rule instead). We've had discussions on this before, though for different purposes. IMO, there are many concepts for which the RP approach would make sense and still be fair.

 

However, if you really want to be strictly book-legal, you can take the opposite approach and buy you defense separately, with the maximum Activation Limitation. And then buy a Multipower with a slot to buy down the Limitation, and another slot(s) for the other added powers:

 

X/2 Defensive Powers, X Active points, 11- Activatioon (-1)

 

Y Multipower, Y point reserve (at least as many points as are needed to buy off the Activation)

X/10m Slot A - Buy down the Activation from the Defensive powers

Zm Slot B - Added movement or other powers that you can get when not using all of slot A.

 

When the maximum points are in Slot A, the Defensive powers have no Activation roll. When fewer points are in slot A, the Activation roll is partially bought off, that is, it has a higher roll. A few points buys it up to 13-, a few more buys it to 14-, more to 15-. Any points that aren't allocated to slot A can be allocated to slot B (or other slots) which increases movement (or other abilities).

[Lucius]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

Use Variable Limitations.

 

The Limitations vary between Activation and Concentration (i.e. at "half open" you're at 1/2 DCV because you can't move as freely, at "fully shut" you're at 0 DCV because you're not moving at all.

 

Buy Movement and other powers with a limitation restricting them to half or zero value depending on where the Defensive Power is set.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

So hungry I could eat a palindromedary

[Sean Waters]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

3 states, say:

 

20/20 armour + no attacks or movement

20/20 armour 14- activation 8d6 attack, 10" movement

20/20 armour 11- activation 12d6 attack 20" movement

 

Solutions:

 

1. Multiform?

 

2. Multipower, building each slot with multiple powers. Not actually legal but I have no idea why.

 

3. Side effects. Buy the armour unlimited. 20 points of side effect supress (or about 35 active points worth at standard effect) on the armour gets you to -1/2 (14-) and 30 points worth gets you to -1 (11-) (about 50 active points worth at standard effect).

 

4. Some sort of cunning implimentation of lockout.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

 

...It's an intelligent mollusk-like alien (not very man-like, but I thought "Mollusk Man" was a catchy title).

 

I might also suggest:

 

Geoduck (pronounced "gooey-duck)

 

Super Clam (The clam of steel!)

 

If he were a beatnik he could be The Bearded Clam

 

The Flying Scallop

 

The Amazing Oyster-man!

 

The Human Snail

 

Or my personal favorite:

 

The Incredible Conch!

 

If he's a mollusc-like alien, then perhaps his various forms should be more different from each other than you currently envision?

 

Suggestions:

Shell Closed = Spaceflightlight mode. The character has abilities suitable for a space environment. Life Support (need not breathe, immune to vacuum/high pressure, etc.), FTL travel, megascale flight or megascale teleport, senses to help find suitable places to land (possibly a megascale discriminatory sense based on spectroscopic analysis?)

 

Shell Partly open = Aquatic mode. The character has senses and abilities appropriate for living in an ocean, to include offensive and defensive abilities far beyond those of mortal clams.

 

Shell wide open = Terrestrial mode. Character has abilities suited to dwelling on land. May glide about on his foot, breathe air, etc.

 

Note that molluscs come in a variety of shapes and ablities (though I admit space-faring snails are a bit of a reach). I hope you share this character with us when he is done. I, for one, would be interested in seeing how he finally turns out.

[Just Joe]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

Thanks for the ideas, folks. The character is going back on the back burner (but mainly because I have other priorities now, not because I am stuck). Here's a bit of what I came up with in the mean time:

 

PhilF, I find your ideas appealing, but I would like to have him as close to strictly book legal as possible. From this standpoint, I'm afraid I don't get how even your second suggestion works. Since the AP of the armor is unaffected by its limitations, I don't see how a multipower slot can reduce or remove a limitation.

 

Lucius, oh friend of the palindromedary, I like the idea of variable limitations, except for the fact that it takes a/n (half?) action and 1/2 DCV (IIRC/IDHMBIFOM). However, with other characters I have used a limited version of variable limitations that one might call a disjunctive limitation. The idea is that there are only two or three (conceptually well justified) sets of possible limitations. These limitations are only worth 1/2 value (as per variable limitations) but may be switched freely. Something like this might work for "mollusk man", especially to distinguish the half-open and fully-open states (e.g., if I use multiform to distinguish closed from any-amount-open).

 

SW(1), I'm starting to like multiform as an option, especially if the character ends up being relatively high point-level. I particularly like the way one can buy an advantage to automatically switch to the "natural" form when KO'd. I think it would be cool if MM automatically closed up when unconscious.

 

SW(2), I'm guessing your multipower suggestion would be too expensive, but in any event, I want to go as book-legal as possible. SW(3), your side effect idea is very interesting, but I'm not sure how to apply it to a persistent power like armor. Still, it might be made to work, if one could convince the GM. SW(4) I think lockout is part of the solution, at least if I go with a variable or disjunctive limitation.

 

After glancing over TUMetatmorph, I decided to try a VPP. It actually worked pretty well. I made it no roll, 1/2 action (though zero might be just as appropriate) and very limited choice of powers. The full active points must be spent on armor which must be the same but for certain limitations (mainly activation). Any points still available may be spent on life support, stretching, swimming, and swinging, in ways appropriate to conception.

 

The three sets of slots I came up with were:

 

wide-open (11- activation armor, relatively large amounts of stretching,

swimming, and swinging)

 

half-open (14- activation armor, smaller amounts of stretching,

swimming, and swinging; alas, I saw no good way to limit DCV), and

 

closed (fair amount of life support, no stretching, swimming, or swinging, armor with the -1 limitation "immobilizes pseudopods"; this limitation combines features of the -1 limitations "gestures, both hands, throughout", but with no visible gestures, and "concentrate, 0 DCV, throughout" but with the possibility of full DCV through, e.g. flight).

 

So there it is. As mentioned above, I'll look into the multiform option later on. But for now, back to other thing. Thanks again, folks.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

PhilF' date=' I find your ideas appealing, but I would like to have him as close to strictly book legal as possible. From this standpoint, I'm afraid I don't get how even your second suggestion works. Since the AP of the armor is unaffected by its limitations, I don't see how a multipower slot can reduce or remove a limitation.[/quote']

AFAIK, it is book-legal to buy a power with a limitation, and then have another power which is essentially buying off that limitation. This second power can have limitations on it or whatever, just like any other power. For Example:

 

10/10 Armor (30 Active), 11- (15 Real) - It would cost 15 points to buy off the Activation Limitation. Or it would cost 5 points to buy the Activation roll up to 14-. So you could then have a Multipower:

 

15 Reserve

3m Slot A = Buy down the Activation roll of the Armor

3m Slot B = 3" Stretching

 

Note that the two slots are both "mutli" slots, so you can put 5 points into Slot A, which buys up the Activation to 14-, while using 2" of Stretching in Slot B. Or you could put all 15 points into Slot A, buying off the Activation roll completely, and have no Stretching. Or you can put all 15 points into Stretching and leave the Armor activation at 11-.

 

half-open (14- activation armor, smaller amounts of stretching,

swimming, and swinging; alas, I saw no good way to limit DCV), and

Adding Concentration to your Stretching, Swimming, and/or Swinging is one way. Maybe not the best way. Another way is to just buy DCV levels for the Wide-Open form, and not include as many in the Half-Open form, and none in the Closed form.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

If you make the character a brick (including a super-strong grip with the shell), you could call him Mussel Man.

[Just Joe]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

AFAIK' date=' it is book-legal to buy a power with a limitation, and then have another power which is essentially buying off that limitation. This second power can have limitations on it or whatever, just like any other power.[/quote']

So far, so good, I believe.

 

For Example:

 

10/10 Armor (30 Active), 11- (15 Real) - It would cost 15 points to buy off the Activation Limitation. Or it would cost 5 points to buy the Activation roll up to 14-. So you could then have a Multipower:

 

15 Reserve

3m Slot A = Buy down the Activation roll of the Armor

3m Slot B = 3" Stretching

Here's where I start to get worried. How many active points are needed for slot A? I'm afraid it might be 30 (and, oddly enough, the same regardless of how much of the limitation you're trying to buy down). This might be another argument for your idea that multipowers should be based (at least in some circumstances) on real points rather than active points, but alas the rules are what they are. I will say, though, that as I get more and more comfortable with very limited VPP's I am starting to suspect that they are the best solution to such problems.

 

 

Adding Concentration to your Stretching' date=' Swimming, and/or Swinging is one way. Maybe not the best way. Another way is to just buy DCV levels for the Wide-Open form, and not include as many in the Half-Open form, and none in the Closed form.[/quote']

Yeah, I'm not thrilled about concentration due to its other implications (not to mention the fact that the book-values are not nearly high enough for most combat-related applications of the limitation). The DCV levels are not a bad idea, but I'd like him to have an OCV >= DCV in all forms. I'm thinking that if I go the multiform route, he'll have substantial physical disadvantages (with DCV implications) when fully closed. When partially closed, he could have lesser physical disadvantages. Of course, that still leaves unresolved how to handle the half-open case if I'm going with the two-form multiform option.

[Just Joe]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

If you make the character a brick (including a super-strong grip with the shell)' date=' you could call him Mussel Man. [/quote'] Niiiice.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

Here's where I start to get worried. How many active points are needed for slot A? I'm afraid it might be 30 (and' date=' oddly enough, the same regardless of how much of the limitation you're trying to buy down).[/quote']

I appreciate that it's kind of an unusual build, but the Armor power (purchased separately), already has the 30 Active points. Buying off a limitation shouldn't be considered to increase those active points.

 

10/10 Armor - 30 Active, 30 Real

 

10/10 Armor, -1 Limitation - 30 Active, 15 Real

Buy off the limitation - 15 Real

 

What's the difference between these two builds? Why should the second onw be considered to have more active points (twice as many?!) as the first?

 

Edit: I'm not trying to pressure you, or in any way imply that you should build your character this way, or that this is *the* way to build it. Just a valid option to consider.

 

BTW, there are plenty of "official" builds in published books that aren't strictly book-legal. I just found a spell in FHG2 that has two wierd rules tweaks: one involving placing Persistant on an Instant power, and the other involves a very strange use of Independant (no Focus, works sort of like a permanent Side Effect). And this book was written by Steven S. Long himself! If he can do it, you can do it!

[Just Joe]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

I appreciate that it's kind of an unusual build, but the Armor power (purchased separately), already has the 30 Active points. Buying off a limitation shouldn't be considered to increase those active points.

 

10/10 Armor - 30 Active, 30 Real

 

10/10 Armor, -1 Limitation - 30 Active, 15 Real

Buy off the limitation - 15 Real

 

What's the difference between these two builds? Why should the second onw be considered to have more active points (twice as many?!) as the first?

I'd say the second build as a whole has 30 active points. The problem comes in separating out the two lines. How many active points does the second line of the second build have? I'm not necessarily convinced that the answer is 30. Heck, I'm not even sure it's an answerable question. The problem is that the multipower in your earlier post, to be book-legal, requires the answer to be 15, and I'm not at all confident that the rules support that answer.

 

Edit: I'm not trying to pressure you, or in any way imply that you should build your character this way, or that this is *the* way to build it. Just a valid option to consider.

 

BTW, there are plenty of "official" builds in published books that aren't strictly book-legal. I just found a spell in FHG2 that has two wierd rules tweaks: one involving placing Persistant on an Instant power, and the other involves a very strange use of Independant (no Focus, works sort of like a permanent Side Effect). And this book was written by Steven S. Long himself! If he can do it, you can do it!

Thanks for clarifying, but I wasn't feeling pressured. Nor am I hostile to your idea. As a GM, I actually tend to be rather loose in my enforcement of rules regarding builds of both PC's and NPC's, provided that they are not abusive. But as a player (and this character idea is potentially a PC) I prefer not to have to rely on a similar attitude from other GM's.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

I'd say the second build as a whole has 30 active points.

I agree. And since the two builds are functionally exactly the same, they should have the same Active Points.

 

The problem comes in separating out the two lines. How many active points does the second line of the second build have?

Simple really. We agree that the second build as a whole is 30 active. The first line of the second build is 30 active. 30-30=0 The second line is 0 active.

 

I'm not necessarily convinced that the answer is 30. Heck, I'm not even sure it's an answerable question. The problem is that the multipower in your earlier post, to be book-legal, requires the answer to be 15, and I'm not at all confident that the rules support that answer.

No, it only requires that it be no more than 15. 0<15, so we're OK. Is there some reason why the second line changes its active point value depending on whether it's in a Multipower or not? That wouldn't be true for any other power construct.

[Just Joe]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

And since the two builds are functionally exactly the same' date=' they should have the same Active Points.[/quote']Yep.

 

We agree that the second build as a whole is 30 active. The first line of the second build is 30 active. 30-30=0 The second line is 0 active.

Hmmm. Maybe. It depends on whether the active points can be separated at all. I don't think placing parts of a build on separate lines is sufficient to make their active points separable, nor am I convinced that any other sufficient condition is met here.

 

But let's suppose you're right about that: line 2 is zero active points.

 

it only requires that it be no more than 15. 0<15' date=' so we're OK. Is there some reason why the second line changes its active point value depending on whether it's in a Multipower or not? That wouldn't be true for any other power construct.[/quote']But then all I have to do is constantly assign zero points (or maybe 1 to play it safe) from my multipower reserve to slot A and the armor has no limitation. Even assuming that's legal, it does not accomplish what we were trying to do with the build in the first place.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

But then all I have to do is constantly assign zero points (or maybe 1 to play it safe) from my multipower reserve to slot A and the armor has no limitation. Even assuming that's legal' date=' it does not accomplish what we were trying to do with the build in the first place.[/quote']

No, you still have to assign 15 *real* points to slot A. Real points are still the bottom line.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Mollusk Man Build

 

Joe, I hope you realize that we're going to want to see your final result.