Action Option Chart for Newbies...am I crazy?

[dei1c3]

I'm in the process of ramping up for a Champions campaign with a bunch of people who are brand new to the Hero System and have varying experience with roleplaying in general. In our last campaign (which was a 3rd Ed. D&D fantasy campaign) there was some problems/ill-will because some of the people knew the gaming system significantly better than others and there were some exchanges like this:

 

Player A: OK, I attack with my bow.

GM: OK, roll...a 9...you just miss.

Player B: OK, I take aim for a full round to get the +2 to hit bonus.

Player A: What?!? I didn't know you could do that. I would have done that if I had known!

 

Since my main goal in getting this group together and playing this campaign is just to have fun and play as superheroes, I am trying to minimize the advantage/disadvantage that varied levels of knowledge of the game system cause. I want to reward people for smart play and fun roleplaying, not for the fact that they understand the Attacks of Opportunity rules (D&D reference) better than everyone else. After all, knowing the rules is my job.

 

As such, I am trying to put as much of the burden for rules as possible on me. As an example, I've spent a lot of time with the players helping them with their character concepts and writing them up in game terms, more than I would with a normal Champions group.

 

Another idea I have is to create a chart of all of the reasonably common actions that players can take. Sounds like a huge list, I know...but I think if I focus on the rule-specific ones, it might be doable. For instance, I'm not going to put "Talk to NPC" or "Go on patrol" on the list...those are a) just common sense and more about role playing than rules. I guess I am thinking along the lines of starting with the Combat Maneuvers list and extending it to include other things you can do in and outside of combat. Each line would list an action and (where applicable) the amount of time it takes to do, any CV or Damage modifiers and any additional info. The goal here is to be able to provide a list of options to the player so that, even though they will be using their main power or attack most of the time, they are at least aware of the other options that are available in case their main attack isn't working or circumstances call for a different tactic...or they just want to try something new.

 

Off the top of my head, the list would definitely include:

- All combat maneuvers (customized for each player based on any martial arts they may have.

- Things that modify combat like rolling with a punch or pulling a punch

- Pushing

- Skill and characteristic rolls

- PRE attacks

- "Special maneuvers" with their powers (such as spreading an EB or going to Non-combat movement for the extra speed)

 

So...is this list bigger than I am thinking it is? Again, the list above is off the top of my head and, to be honest, I haven't completely read the 5th Edition rules yet (although I have been playing Champions since 1st Edition), but I think it's a pretty good start.

 

So, with that in mind...what else should go on that list?

 

I am open to any and all ideas. Thanks in advance for any and all help.

 

Chris

[Agent X]

Why don't you have them describe what they are doing in detail. If they say, "I hit them." Ask them how hard? Do they do a little footwork and take an opportune moment (standard strike)? Do they stand toe to toe and try for the knockout (haymaker)? Do they give it their all for one last-ditch strike (pushed haymaker)?

 

Let them describe their action then let them know what that means in game terms and gently coach them about the likelihood of its success in the game.

 

That way you don't have to build a table only to watch half the players ignore it anyway. I've tried to do these sorts of things and they often aren't appreciated.

[Tempuswolf]

Sounds like you want to take 4 to 6 tables from the Hero System Resource Kit's GM screen and string them into one and individualize that single multipage table for each player. This list would be well over a 100 entries long. I am not sure a list that long would be helpful unless it was well organized; just too many options. I think in the long run unless you want to play translator continually, it behooves the player to gain some expertise with at least that subset of the rules he is most often using. A less than omnibus options list with usage in mind might set the player down this path. On the other hand, an options list might also stifle creativity if the player falls into the rut of just using the list rather than role-playing combat.

[White Heat]

Uh, let's consider this for a moment...

 

Originally posted by Tempuswolf

Sounds like you want to take 4 to 6 tables from the Hero System Resource Kit's GM screen and string them into one and individualize that single multipage table for each player. This list would be well over a 100 entries long. I am not sure a list that long would be helpful unless it was well organized; just too many options. I think in the long run unless you want to play translator continually, it behooves the player to gain some expertise with at least that subset of the rules he is most often using. A less than omnibus options list with usage in mind might set the player down this path. On the other hand, an options list might also stifle creativity if the player falls into the rut of just using the list rather than role-playing combat.

Excellent points. I remember that although I wanted to play RPGs through college, I could never find anyone to play with me. End result was that when I met Klytus (a big draw was that he ran games), I had virtually no experience in most games, and none at al in Champions. Even though I had, by that time, found the local gaming store and knew a couple of people who played and ran, and it was improving all the time.

 

The first time(s) we played Champions, I was dumbfounded by the number of options there were. I can only imagine how much worse it could have been to see the entire list typed out in front of me. I would have made the error of deciding that if the GM went to all that trouble, I had to choose from the list. I would never have given the list up; even if I thought of something that wasn't on the list, I would have assumed that the list was exclusive, not merely introductory.

 

A list sounds like a good idea, but maybe you need to consider the possibility that, since you never did this for any of your other games, your players might think of it as a list of the only possible options, as opposed to your true intent, which is a starter list of ideas until they start thinking of things themselves.

[KA.]

I agree that a list might be:

a) confusing

confining.

 

Perhaps a better approach would be discussing combat during the character creation process.

Make sure that the player is with you when you are writing up the character, so that when you have to make choices like EB/RKA, Flight/Gliding, etc., that you can take their ideas into account.

 

At the same time, you can let the player know, that while any character can do almost any maneuver, and that the maneuvers themselves can represent several different actual "moves", since they are a beginning hero, they will most likely stick to a somewhat basic set of moves at the start.

 

Since you are basically creating the characters for them, they will most likely want to rewrite them at some point in the future, after they have learned the system. I would encourage this, and even let them bring along earned experience, since the characters will never "belong" to the players until they write them up themselves.

 

So, let the players know that you are creating "starter characters" for them, and that they will be able to expand on them in the future.

 

Also, I would steer the players, at the beginning anyway, to types that do not have thousands of combat options. Most characters in comics began this way.

Early Superman: Punch, Move By, Throw Object.

Early Batman: Punch, Kick, Batarang, Gas Pellet.

Early Spiderman: Punch, Kick, Dodge, Entangle.

 

The evolution of these characters into walking combat machines with thousands of options has taken years and years.

 

Also, in the beginning, steer your players toward concepts like Brick or Energy Blaster, not things like "The Taskmaster" or "Variable Power Pool-Man". While the latter two can be fun exercises for an experienced player, they will often bring a newbie nothing but unhappiness and confusion.

 

Next, while creating the character, figure out with the player the character's "favorite maneuvers". Explain that the character is not permanently limited to this small set of moves, but that these represent the most likely things he may do in combat. This can also help with creating the character. If it turns out that the player wants their "brick" to hang back and throw things, they might actually want more of and Energy Blaster, perhaps with Physical rather than Energy based attacks. If they keep wanting their EB'er to do Move Throughs, they might be happier with a "Flying Brick".

 

As far as the more experienced players, just set something like a "Campaign Limit" on starting maneuvers, since these are brand new heroes. But let them know that all the characters will be moving forward by gaining new maneuvers, and that everyone will gain a new maneuvers (NOT the same ones, necessarily) every session or so.

 

One good way to do this without rancor, might be to give the group a common origin. A group of strangers (or some friends) that all are suddenly given powers by some event. That will help to explain why all the characters are "newbies", they just got their powers, and they are learning to use them.

No "intensely-trained, combat-hardened, battle-machines" but regular guys who suddenly can shoot laser beams out of their eyes!

 

As the new guys learn the system, their characters will get better and have more options. You can have "danger room" scenarios where they actually learn the maneuvers (the characters AND the players) so that they can use them in "real" combat later. Since you have let them know that the group will move forward as a whole, it will give the experienced players an incentive to help the new ones, rather than just "show off" what they know.

 

KA

[dei1c3]

Thanks all for the response. Not the reaction I expected...but it does make sense to me now that I have thought about it. I may still compile the list...but I'll do so for my use, not theirs.

 

One of the things I am doing is to run a quick solo adventure (pretty much combat only) with each player as they finish their character to "show them the ropes" of combat. I'll probably point out a few things to them (such as pushing, pulling their punches versus normals, etc...) but other than that, I'll just let them role play it and worry about the rules myself.

 

Thanks for the other suggestions, too (many I've actually done or plan on doing, others hadn't occurred to me but have merit).

Sounds like you want to take 4 to 6 tables from the Hero System Resource Kit's GM screen

I saw this on the site here. Is it a 5th Edition product? Is it a worthwhile investment? It sounds like it probably has the information I am looking for and since I still want to compile that info for my reference, it might worth picking up.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks again.

 

Chris

[Agent X]

Originally posted by dei1c3

Thanks all for the response. Not the reaction I expected...but it does make sense to me now that I have thought about it. I may still compile the list...but I'll do so for my use, not theirs.

 

One of the things I am doing is to run a quick solo adventure (pretty much combat only) with each player as they finish their character to "show them the ropes" of combat. I'll probably point out a few things to them (such as pushing, pulling their punches versus normals, etc...) but other than that, I'll just let them role play it and worry about the rules myself.

 

Thanks for the other suggestions, too (many I've actually done or plan on doing, others hadn't occurred to me but have merit).

I saw this on the site here. Is it a 5th Edition product? Is it a worthwhile investment? It sounds like it probably has the information I am looking for and since I still want to compile that info for my reference, it might worth picking up.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks again.

 

Chris

It's 5th Edition and it's good.

[Lord Liaden]

You can find information about the HERO System Resource Kit by clicking on the "Our Products" link to the left on this page, then on "General HERO System Products."

 

The HSRK includes two items that I think would be of particular use to your group. One is a booklet which summarizes all the information involved in the character creation process; an excellent guide for new players, widely praised as the best part of the package. The second most-praised item is the complete and sturdy GM's screen, which has a wealth of tables for all aspects of the game on it; of particular import for you is that the tables are printed on both sides of the screen, so that players can also refer to it in-game.

[Tempuswolf]

Here are the pros and cons of the Hero System Resource Kit:

 

Pros

 

Rules Summary

Campaign Ground Rules Sheet

Character Creation Checklist

Combat Record Sheet (the familiar write-in speed chart)

GM Screen

Hex Maps 3 two-sided Fantasy, SF, Modern including Rosie's

 

Cons

 

Miniatures (just B&W artwork, both sides are front silhouettes)

GM Screen (it's actually too big!; there are some superfluous charts OCV vs DCV, Char vs. Skill Rolls not that detrimental but some bends in the screen fold the wrong way and you can't make a U-shaped picket just a N-or W-shaped one)

 

All in all, I recommend it. I would replace mine if I were to loose it.

[dei1c3]

Great...thanks for the info and reviews. I'll probably be picking it up soon.

 

Chris

[TheEmerged]

Okay, I see I'm not the only one that didn't like the shape of the screen. Couldn't they have just admitted it was two-sided and made a traditional 3-way instead of foisting this 5-piece monstrosity on me?

 

Even with this complaint, yes the resource kit comes recommended.

[BlackCobra]

combat ramp-up

 

As a suggestion that might help get new players familiar with combat, I'd recommend the tried and true Danger Room.

 

If you have the time, run the characters through a variety of combat-intensive training sessions -- not just for them, but for their characters, too. This has lots of anciliary effects: they learn the combat system, they learn more about each other, and they (hopefully) learn more about working as a team.

 

The only problem with this is time. It also (unless done really really well) takes away from the rest of the campaign. However, if you're starting up all new players, and the campaign is starting off fairly fresh, you might be able to run this as a slow introduction to the system and particularly the (sometimes complicated) combat system.

 

Hope that helps -- and good luck!