OK, SUperman rocks but wasn't he a ripoff of...

[Superskrull]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

Where are people getting "horn dog" and "spicey" from in The Gladiator? Hugo Danner was romantically involved with a grand total of two women in the entire book, and their intimacy was never more than alluded to.

 

Well, there was Anna Blake in Indian Creek, Bessie the New York prostitute, Lefty's cousin Iris, Charlotte at Coney Island

and Roseanne Cane the farmer's wife. while no actual blow-by-blows were said, his endurance and ardor was mentioned.

 

Don't take this as a knock at the book, as if I didn't like it, it wouldn't be sitting 3 feet from my computer.

[DoctorItron]

Originally posted by Arthur

That is an extremely common reaction from anybody who is a accepted member of modern society when reading literature that old. Today's culture is extremely feminized, and males are depicted as pathetic, stupid, and weak most of the time. Watch commercials on TV and make a list sometime. See how many times the man is shown as clueless, while a woman shows up with all the answers. Decades ago, men were men. Women pushed for equality, which was great, but now the balance is tipped the other way.

 

Arthur, your choice of words ("tipped the other way") suggests that things are as unequal for men now as they were for women decades ago. Men can still vote and choose their career - I see no chance of that going away. Many companies still pay men more than women for the same job. As a group, men still have more power than women, especially in the business world.

 

Males are depicted as pathetic, stupid, and weak "some" of the time, not "most"of the time.

 

Yes, some things have gone too far and favor women, and these problem need fixing. Or, like child custody, perhaps some problems always favored women, but men of decades past didn't care as much.

 

As a white male I know my chances of "benefitting" from discrimination are much higher than my risks of being discriminated against. I see little chance of that changing in my lifetime.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by DoctorItron

Arthur, your choice of words ("tipped the other way") suggests that things are as unequal for men now as they were for women decades ago. Men can still vote and choose their career - I see no chance of that going away. Many companies still pay men more than women for the same job. As a group, men still have more power than women, especially in the business world.

 

Males are depicted as pathetic, stupid, and weak "some" of the time, not "most"of the time.

 

Yes, some things have gone too far and favor women, and these problem need fixing. Or, like child custody, perhaps some problems always favored women, but men of decades past didn't care as much.

 

As a white male I know my chances of "benefitting" from discrimination are much higher than my risks of being discriminated against. I see little chance of that changing in my lifetime.

 

The continuing raw advantages of being male do not mitigate (or justify) the fact that there is an accepted trend in feminized pop culture to demean men.

[Doug McCrae]

I've noticed that same tendency in adverts over here. It is only in adverts though, AFAICS. I wonder why that should be?

[Killer Shrike]

Because a few years back advertisers realized that the majority of money is spent by women. Men tend to buy big ticket items like cars, women buy most of the "little things" and household necessities.

 

Men are also supposedly more likely to hit "MUTE" during TV commercials (or channel surf or grab a breverage, etc) than women.

 

So, someone has a bright idea: cater to women in TV commercials.

 

Some interpret catering to women as making men out to be lumbering emasculated overgrown dopey children.

 

BTW, I know many on this board insist on fully documented references for every passing comment, but this is all just hearsay so take it for what its worth.

[DoctorItron]

Originally posted by D-Man

The continuing raw advantages of being male do not mitigate (or justify) the fact that there is an accepted trend in feminized pop culture to demean men.

 

I agree. My post was intended to refute the implication that equality, as a whole, has gone too far. Never meant to justify the ads. While I find them inoffensive and harmless, their attempts at humor fall flat.

 

Many proponents for "equality" will protest over jokes targeting women or minorities, yet they'll cheer these ads that target men. Hell, they'll even protest against spousal abuse, then praise a woman who decides to mutilate her allegedly abusive husband instead calling the police or divorcing him.

[DocMan]

Originally posted by DoctorItron

As a white male I know my chances of "benefitting" from discrimination are much higher than my risks of being discriminated against. I see little chance of that changing in my lifetime.

 

You benefit from discrimination? Will wonders never cease!

 

As a white male, society has institutionalized discrimination against me. If I apply for a job, even if I am the most qualified applicant, the job will go to someone who is a "minority" (Not speaking generalities here, it really happened). Since I am white, slavery is my personal fault. Since I am male, everyone assumes I am privileged. The truth is that I have to work harder, and am held to a higher standard than my co-workers. Even my right to complain about discrimination has been removed, since management will never find in my favor for fear of being labeled as "prejudiced".

 

Doc

[DoctorItron]

Originally posted by DocMan

You benefit from discrimination? Will wonders never cease!

 

As a white male, society has institutionalized discrimination against me. If I apply for a job, even if I am the most qualified applicant, the job will go to someone who is a "minority" (Not speaking generalities here, it really happened). Since I am white, slavery is my personal fault. Since I am male, everyone assumes I am privileged. The truth is that I have to work harder, and am held to a higher standard than my co-workers. Even my right to complain about discrimination has been removed, since management will never find in my favor for fear of being labeled as "prejudiced".

 

Doc

 

Sorry it took so long for me to reply. I haven't checked this thread in a while.

 

(Important note to people who haven't read my previous posts: I put "benefit" in quotes. While I receive some limited advantageous (sp.) side-effects from discrimination, as a whole I'd be better off if there was less discrimination.)

 

Here's how I "benefit" as a white male:

 

1) I get paid more than others. For the same work.

 

2) If I get pulled over for a minor traffic infraction, I have a better chance of avoiding a ticket than a racial minority. (/sarcasm on) However, women do have an advantage over me, with their ability to cry on demand (/sarcasm off)

 

3) Co-workers don't call me a bitch if I complain about something.

 

DocMan, you said that "If you apply for a job ... the job will go to someone who is a minority". The reverse is much more common. If what you said were universally true, then virtually no white male would be able to find a job, since there's probably at least one minority applicant.

 

I work as a computer consultant / programmer/ systems analyst in New York. What field are you in? Maybe the discrimination discrepancies we're experiencing are due to our work or where we live?

[Arthur]

Originally posted by DoctorItron

Arthur, your choice of words ("tipped the other way") suggests that things are as unequal for men now as they were for women

 

Not necessarily. The odds can start out at 10:1, reach 1:1, then go to 1:3, and the balance has "tipped the other way". It doesn't have to go all the way to 1:10 for that to be true.

 

away. Many companies still pay men more than women for the same job. As a group, men still have more power than women, especially in the business world.

 

For the same job? Never seen that. Those studies that show that men with the same education make more than women typically compare a man with an engineering degree to a woman with a liberal arts degree.

 

When a woman has the same TYPE of degree, they make the same amount. According to some studies. But even if I'm wrong about that...

 

We appear to be in a transitional period. In the "halls of power" in upper-level business and politics, it's still male-dominated. However, that is OTHER MEN (unless there is a CEO reading this). Those guys in that world are "old school". The CEO/politicos are a throwback to an earlier time, and that is changing fast. As the most recent generations grow up indoctrinated in male-bashing, that's going to change. Cultural change takes a long time, and older members typically reflect the values of a disappearing era.

 

Males are depicted as pathetic, stupid, and weak "some" of the time, not "most"of the time.

 

Count the times. Watch commercials and keep a tally. Let me know how it goes.

[Agent X]

When my father, a two-tour veteran of the Vietnam War, retired from the military he lost a government job to n female African-American associate who had "retired early" from the military. He had more of a background in the area, scored much higher than she had on the tests, and had a "bump up" because he was a veteran. That was all trumped by her minority status. Something to think about.

[DoctorItron]

Originally posted by Arthur

SNIP

We appear to be in a transitional period. In the "halls of power" in upper-level business and politics, it's still male-dominated. However, that is OTHER MEN (unless there is a CEO reading this). Those guys in that world are "old school". The CEO/politicos are a throwback to an earlier time, and that is changing fast. As the most recent generations grow up indoctrinated in male-bashing, that's going to change. Cultural change takes a long time, and older members typically reflect the values of a disappearing era.

SNIP

 

Good point about the "old school".

 

As for younger people being "indoctrinated in male-bashing", you're blowing this out of proportion. Take a look at people in their early twenties. They still hold a lot of "traditional old fashioned" values.

 

Yes, male/female roles have changed quite a bit, but most of those changes took place over a decade ago. While things are still evolving, the rate of change has dramatically slowed. I take that as a sign that the current generation is satisfied with the changes (or at least has other priorities).

[DocMan]

Originally posted by DoctorItron

DocMan, you said that "If you apply for a job ... the job will go to someone who is a minority". The reverse is much more common. If what you said were universally true, then virtually no white male would be able to find a job, since there's probably at least one minority applicant.

 

I work as a computer consultant / programmer/ systems analyst in New York. What field are you in? Maybe the discrimination discrepancies we're experiencing are due to our work or where we live?

 

I work as a computer specialist doing database/etl/customized reporting (I'm not permitted to call myself a programmer for political reasons). I work in the Washington, D.C. area for the Federal Government.

 

It would seem that one of us works in an environment that is less condusive to obeying hiring practices and guidelines. Not sure which one, though.

 

Doc

[Arthur]

Re: Thread hijack...

 

Originally posted by Morningstar70

wasn;t this supposed to be an enjoyable discussion about Superman and not suddenly turned into reverse sexual discrimination?

 

Two words: Thread Drift.

 

And there is no such thing as "reverse discrimination". There is just discrimination.