Power Design

[KarinsDad]

A player of mine wants to create a power similar to Havoc's where he was firing at full bore and kept increasing the intensity at the Hulk for about 30 seconds until the Hulk finally fell. When it was all over, the area around Havoc had been melted into glass.

 

I like the visual for this, but cannot quite wrap my hands around game mechanics.

 

I was thinking that he might need +1 Continuous on an Energy Blast, but in order to up the power level, maybe a Linked Aid (to gradually increase the maximum power output each phase). Maybe a lesser form (+1/2 ?) of Continuous that works on the segments between phases, but requires a new attack roll each round. Course, that is not a property of Continuous, it is only a property of Constant Area powers. Maybe I need to do a Line Area Continuous Energy Blast (pricey).

 

I was also thinking of possibly a Linked Area Transform (as opposed to Change Environment which is temporary) to change the surrounding area to glass.

 

The PCs normally are limited to 60 Active Points, however, each PC is allowed to have a single "Big Gun" 80 Active point power (with heavy limitations so that they can only use it once in a blue moon). With linked powers, I could see that the Endurance itself might be part of the limitations.

 

This would be this PC's Big Gun attack.

 

 

Can anyone think of a way to handle this? Possibly a way that I have not thought of? The things I am thinking of are very costly and would have very low damage output, at least in early phases.

 

Thanks.

 

 

The comic books somethings seem to have heroes and villains fire continuous energy blasts (and even have them counteract each other), but I do not see this type of thing well represented in the game system. Maybe I'm just missing it.

[KarinsDad]

Re: Power Design

 

No suggestions at all?

[Remjin]

Re: Power Design

 

Well, being a fan of the same kind of a blast...all I can say is, its going to cost a lot. You're only trying to hit one target, the size of the blast is irrelevant unless you want to hit multiple poeple. Continuous on its own is good enough for one target, but if you want the literal "corridor of death" then you're going to need the AoE Line advantage.

 

For the frying things around him part, you can either just call it a special effect or make it a combination power with a damage shield, perhaps also continuous. That's also a lot of points. =)

 

Ramping up the power level could be done with a linked Aid or Succor. Succor works nice because it doesn't fade, its just active only while you're using it, and doesn't do the "fade off" thing.

 

The active point limitation is just going to limit it, its a pretty advantaged power, but the aid/succor should be able to pump it up over time. Its just going to have to start smaller. The other option being that he just buys it big but only uses part of most of the time and just pushes it up as he sees fit.

 

Characters like those are high points at times because of simple dramatic license in comics. Somewhat like batman being built on 800 points at times and things of that nature, depending on what you want to exactly show and do.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Power Design

 

For the frying things around him part' date=' you can either just call it a special effect or make it a combination power with a damage shield, perhaps also continuous. That's also a lot of points. =)[/quote']

 

Side Effect that only affects the invironment, perhaps? No big deal in the desert, but using it on city streets could cause some issues.

[OddHat]

Re: Power Design

 

A Continuous attack can be fired again and again even as it's being maintained.

 

The area turning to glass is either a special effect or a minor Side Effect that occurs when firing multiple continuous blasts and only affects the environment around the power user (-0).

 

So, Phase 12, Havok fires his Continuous EB at the Hulk. It does almost nothing, getting a few stun through.

 

Phase 3, Havok maintains the first blast and fires a second. Now Hulk starts to notice, and the ground starts to bake.

 

Phase 5, Havok piles a third blast onto the stream. Hulk starts seriously losing Stun, etc.

 

The GM is clearly gimping the Hulk by not having him clap his hands and kill Havok with the shock wave, but that's how comic book battles sometimes go.

 

Alternatively, just buy Havok a super-push power, +Xd6 EB, x3 END, Side Effect Always Occurs (melts the ground), and maybe some extra time if the GM allows it.

 

You could also let Havok buy an Aid to his own EB, but the superpush approach is cheaper.

[Remjin]

Re: Power Design

 

A Continuous attack can be fired again and again even as it's being maintained.

 

The area turning to glass is either a special effect or a minor Side Effect that occurs when firing multiple continuous blasts and only affects the environment around the power user (-0).

 

So, Phase 12, Havok fires his Continuous EB at the Hulk. It does almost nothing, getting a few stun through.

 

Phase 3, Havok maintains the first blast and fires a second. Now Hulk starts to notice, and the ground starts to bake.

 

Phase 5, Havok piles a third blast onto the stream. Hulk starts seriously losing Stun, etc.

 

The GM is clearly gimping the Hulk by not having him clap his hands and kill Havok with the shock wave, but that's how comic book battles sometimes go.

 

Alternatively, just buy Havok a super-push power, +Xd6 EB, x3 END, Side Effect Always Occurs (melts the ground), and maybe some extra time if the GM allows it.

 

You could also let Havok buy an Aid to his own EB, but the superpush approach is cheaper.

 

Between Hugh and this, I'd say these work even better. I hadn't realized on the continuous blasts you could keep firing them, so that is pretty useful and also simulates the effect you're looking for.

[6-Sided_Buddha]

Re: Power Design

 

Though now my question is this: In regards to overlapping continuous energy blasts... would they do one big lump sum of damage, or loads of little dice pools of damage?

 

Let's say for sake of argument that Havoc has a 3d6 EB Continuous. Let's be generous and throw 0 Endurance on it.

 

Phase twelve, he fires, rolls 3d6 for damage, and hulk rolls his eyes.

 

Phase three, he fires again. Does he roll 6d6 for damage, or 3d6 twice? Alternatively, can you roll a coordination roll with yourself?

 

All I'm seeing here is just Havoc rolling 3d6 like a hundred times, and the Hulk considering keeping Havoc around as a back scratcher... Unless those dice add up, in which case I know the power construct that I'm building in *every* energy projector I build...

[Remjin]

Re: Power Design

 

Though now my question is this: In regards to overlapping continuous energy blasts... would they do one big lump sum of damage, or loads of little dice pools of damage?

 

Let's say for sake of argument that Havoc has a 3d6 EB Continuous. Let's be generous and throw 0 Endurance on it.

 

Phase twelve, he fires, rolls 3d6 for damage, and hulk rolls his eyes.

 

Phase three, he fires again. Does he roll 6d6 for damage, or 3d6 twice? Alternatively, can you roll a coordination roll with yourself?

 

All I'm seeing here is just Havoc rolling 3d6 like a hundred times, and the Hulk considering keeping Havoc around as a back scratcher... Unless those dice add up, in which case I know the power construct that I'm building in *every* energy projector I build...

 

Okay, it should work like this (I'm working from memory, as I haven't had a blaster in a long time, but my brick takes fire from multiple bad guys a lot.): you roll 3d6 individually for damage, however, the damage stacks towards things like con-stun and the like.

 

That is why the EB super-push power is probably best, though how you buy that, I'm not quite sure. Do you just buy the energy blast x3 end w/ side effect then add it? I'm not quite sure how that works. Plus, I like the idea for the visual of blasting someone with an energy blast line and then "sending a pulse" down the line as you add power to it... =)

[OddHat]

Re: Power Design

 

Each continuous blast adds damage separately. If Havok is on average getting some stun through with each blast, he's going to KO his target that much faster. If he's not getting any damage through even on a max roll (the 3d6 example) then he's wasting his time.

 

Super-push type attacks are usually just written up as as +Xd6, XxEnd cost. So, a 12d6 EB with a 12d6 Super-push might look like 12d6, +12d6 at 5x End cost.

[Remjin]

Re: Power Design

 

Each continuous blast adds damage separately. If Havok is on average getting some stun through with each blast, he's going to KO his target that much faster. If he's not getting any damage through even on a max roll (the 3d6 example) then he's wasting his time.

 

Super-push type attacks are usually just written up as as +Xd6, XxEnd cost. So, a 12d6 EB with a 12d6 Super-push might look like 12d6, +12d6 at 5x End cost.

 

So how would I buy that in Hero Designer? A compound power with part of the blast at 3-5x end?

[1EyedJack]

Re: Power Design

 

Each continuous blast adds damage separately. If Havok is on average getting some stun through with each blast, he's going to KO his target that much faster. If he's not getting any damage through even on a max roll (the 3d6 example) then he's wasting his time.

 

Super-push type attacks are usually just written up as as +Xd6, XxEnd cost. So, a 12d6 EB with a 12d6 Super-push might look like 12d6, +12d6 at 5x End cost.

 

I agree but maybe include or change to +Xd6 for X consecutive attacks maybe requiring full phases as well

[OddHat]

Re: Power Design

 

So how would I buy that in Hero Designer? A compound power with part of the blast at 3-5x end?

 

That works fine.

[TaxiMan]

Re: Power Design

 

How about

 

12d6 EB

+4d6 EB, Gradual Effect, Side Effects (area melts appropriately)

 

and +5 CSL with EB, only with 16d6 EB attack, only after successful hit, must be same target.

 

That way, you fire your max EB & hit (on a good day). The damage ramps up over time while you keep hitting with successive EBs due to the +5.

 

If the GM thinks that's over the 80 AP max due to the +5 CSL, you can drop it to +2d6 extra and still have a powerful attack. Those extra 2 dice go directly to damage assuming you can hurt your target with 12d6.

 

I like this approach since it seems your biggest problem is the AP limit. The super push approach is great but blows the AP limit badly.

[KarinsDad]

Re: Power Design

 

How about

 

12d6 EB

+4d6 EB, Gradual Effect, Side Effects (area melts appropriately)

 

and +5 CSL with EB, only with 16d6 EB attack, only after successful hit, must be same target.

 

I don't understand how this helps.

 

Say the Gradual Effect is 1D6 per Turn. It takes 4 turns and it does 4D6 of damage.

 

The first attack does 12D6 (plus another 4D6 over the next 4 turns).

 

The second attack does 12D6 (plus another 4D6 over the next 4 turns).

 

So sure, after hitting an opponent for 6 straight phases (Spd 6), you do an additional 1D6 per phase after that which his defenses do not stop (assuming 12D6 damaged him in the first place).

 

But, one could have just done 16D6 per phase for 6 straight phases and done 23D6 more in damage in that same time frame.

 

Gradual Effect is a limitation for a reason. It does the same damage in the long run, but it takes forever (with respect to combat) to do the exact same damage that could have been done in combat in the first place.

[TaxiMan]

Re: Power Design

 

Good point - I didn't have my book; the "gradual effect" I was envisioning added 1d6/phase.

 

Phase 1: 12d6

Phase 2: 12d6 + 1d6 (gradual)

Phase 3: 12d6 + 2d6 (gradual from previous 2)

Phase 4: 12d6 + 3d6 ...

 

Caps out at 16d6 at Phase 5 using my imaginary gradual effect. Call it a custom limitation, obviously less than the official Gradual Effect.

 

Re: Straight 16d6 does more damage - the effect sought was to ramp up the damage over time. It wasn't my idea. I was seeking a way to make the Power effective without blowing the 80AP limit set in the campaign. 16d6=80AP, so there isn't much room to go higher.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Power Design

 

You could build a succor triggered by hitting a target and doing no STUN. Make it a continuous charger and add continuous advantage to it, with some increased MAX effect and he will gain in power if he hits someone who doesn't take damage.

 

Then add some limitation like this extra AP has to be used on the same person who procced the succor

 

Not sure where i'm going with this but i'm sure a vaild power is in here somewhere

[Remjin]

Re: Power Design

 

Another thought I had...

 

Just buy the biggest EB you can. Then buy a multipower of naked advantages to add the effects. Maybe its a bit munchkin, possibly a lot, but it bypasses the AP cap.

 

Heck, but the succor/aid in the multipower, too.

[OddHat]

Re: Power Design

 

Speaking as a GM who doesn't use Active Point Caps, if I did employ an AP Cap I would not permit it to by bypassed.

 

Once you start "working around" the restrictions the GM has placed on character building, your best bet is to just discuss with him why you feel his limits are too restrictive. If he actually knows the system you can't out-build him anyway; he has unlimited points and doesn't have to follow any character building guidelines at all.

[Remjin]

Re: Power Design

 

I understand what you're saying, but it sounded like one of those reluctantly enforced limits to me. Maybe its not the case, but the GM sounded like he wanted to allow it to happen without beeaking the point cap "officially."

 

I'm not a proponent of limiting things as a whole. But then, I don't play with a group that has issues with power gaming.

 

Let the guy have his big boomer schtick. I'm not advocating trying to pull one on the GM. Just a "technical" way of getting around the cap ti avoid calls of "unfair" or favoritism if you have a group like that.

 

Very good point to make, though, Oddhat.

[OddHat]

Re: Power Design

 

I understand what you're saying, but it sounded like one of those reluctantly enforced limits to me. Maybe its not the case, but the GM sounded like he wanted to allow it to happen without beeaking the point cap "officially."

 

I'm not a proponent of limiting things as a whole. But then, I don't play with a group that has issues with power gaming.

 

Let the guy have his big boomer schtick. I'm not advocating trying to pull one on the GM. Just a "technical" way of getting around the cap ti avoid calls of "unfair" or favoritism if you have a group like that.

 

Sorry if I came off as pedantic. The post was pre-coffee and therefore made before my sense of humor or perspective had clicked in for the day.

[Remjin]

Re: Power Design

 

Nah, a point I should have included, but neglected to because the GM asked the question.

 

I make a point of always trying to see the best intentions in forums. Its too easy to read into text what isn't meant.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Power Design

 

Here's another alternative suggestion:

 

175 Kamehameha: EB 10d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Continuous (+1), Penetrating (x2; +1) (175 Active Points) - END=0

 

No extra dice needed since the Penetrating virtually garantees that it will do damage to nearly anyone. Might want to take a limiation allowing only 1 "continuous attack" per target.

[KarinsDad]

Re: Power Design

 

Just buy the biggest EB you can. Then buy a multipower of naked advantages to add the effects. Maybe its a bit munchkin, possibly a lot, but it bypasses the AP cap.

 

As a general rule (page 311 of the revised 5E), naked advantages are not allowed in a framework.

 

The idea of the thread here was to find legal methods to achieve the result, not go crazy breaking the standard rules (as per Hyper-man's suggestion to break the 80 point cap by spending 175 points ).

[OddHat]

Re: Power Design

 

The idea of the thread here was to find legal methods to achieve the result, not go crazy breaking the standard rules (as per Hyper-man's suggestion to break the 80 point cap by spending 175 points ).

 

Actually, even a 5d6 Continuous Double Penetrating attack will wipe out most foes pretty effectively if you keep hitting them with an additional attack every phase, all for 75 points. Hyperman's build is still a good one under your cap. At SPD 5 and assuming each additional attack hits, you'll do 5 STUN on Phase 12, 10 on 3, 15 on 5, 20 on 8, etc.

 

Then there's this piece of silliness:

Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), No Range Modifier (+1/2), +3 Increased STUN Multiplier (+3/4), Continuous (+1), Penetrating (x2; +1) (79 Active Points)

 

Almost guaranteed to hit, and will kill almost anything in the CU stone cold dead in a few turns. The point not being that you should allow that build, just that all sorts of effects are possible.

[KarinsDad]

Re: Power Design

 

Actually, even a 5d6 Continuous Double Penetrating attack will wipe out most foes pretty effectively if you keep hitting them with an additional attack every phase, all for 75 points. Hyperman's build is still a good one under your cap. At SPD 5 and assuming each additional attack hits, you'll do 5 STUN on Phase 12, 10 on 3, 15 on 5, 20 on 8, etc.

 

Not usually.

 

It has a significant downside. Continuous attacks require line of sight. It is unlikely that an opponent is going to sit around and allow such an attack to continue (and of course, with Hyperman's build, it would have been 4D6 instead of 5D6 for under the 80 cap).

 

Simply moving behind a building and back again makes this power fairly weak.

 

Doing about 20 or 25 Stun per Turn (assuming a Speed of 5 where all attacks hit) is hardly devastating. Superhero battles rarely happen out in the wide open (like a desert) where there is absolutely no cover.