Remote Control

[Sean Waters]

Something like this has probaby been suggested before, but I saw a need...let me know what you think, and if I'm missing an obvious way to do this without a new power. Cheers

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Seems to me there is no easy way to control a piece of machinery that does not have a mind, using the current Hero rules.

 

Perhaps there is room for a new power?

 

Remote Control:

 

Enables you to control non-sentient devices at a distance.

 

5 points for 1d6

Range 5xpoints

Costs END

Instant

 

Every device (defined as being something not built with a controlling sentience, sentience being defined by possession of an EGO characteristic) can be operated of otherwise controlled at a distance with this power.

 

GM defines a target number, which may be the Body of the object, or the INT of the object or the STR of the object, or if nothing else seems appropriate, 10 and adds any power defence the device has.

 

This is a power you will need to carefully define sfx for, and you may well need to limit in certain ways to get what you are looking for. The power allows you to do several things which overlap with fine manipulation TK, but should never be anywhere near as powerful as that ability at any given power level. The maximum STR that can be exerted if necessary is half the difference between the roll and the TN.

 

The player rolls their d6 and compares to the following table.

 

Exceeds target number: can ‘jam’ or ‘unjam’ the device, preventing it from changing state. A light could be jammed on, a gun could be jammed so you can’t pull the trigger, a computer keyboard can be jammed so that it will not accept new input. This can usually only be rectified by use of remote control power to unjam the device (you have to exceed the original jamming roll) or extensive repairs (usually requiring a practical re-build rather than, say a phase and a weaponsmith roll). You can prevent a door from opening.

 

Exceeds TN+10: change state – turn a device on that was off, or off that was on, or activate or deactivate any individual function of the device. You can, for instance, make a gun fire as if the trigger was pulled, or switch a red traffic light to green. You could open a door, even if the door was not ‘powered’ as that is something that doors do.

 

Exceeds TN+20: control – you can make the device do anything that it can normally do, including changing several states or functions at once: you could, for instance drive a car remotely. You have to keep paying END and spend a half phase peer turn (but do not need to roll again) to maintain your control.

 

Exceeds TN+30: program – you can cause a device to act as if you had programmed it to perform certain tasks, even if you are not maintaining conscious control. For instance you could cause a car to drive to the police station, even if that took the car outside your line of sight or the normal range of the power. Note, however, that you cannot exceed the design of the device - a programmed car would not be able to sense other traffic or hazards, and would simply drive by a route you specified, at a speed you specified, from A to B. Obviously if the car design included sensors you could program it to react to things that it can sense. GM is obviously the final arbiter of what you can do. At this level you could also, for instance, re-write a computer program, changing passwords and so on.

[Starlight]

Re: Remote Control

 

The details are all important of course, but as a potential power construct could this be done using Summoning?

 

There should be correlation between the result of a summoning and the specifics of the item being controlled. A child's tricycle is rather less of a threat than a heavy construction bulldozer for example. Basing the points available in Summon to the Body of the item of machinery might be one way to do this.

 

Also the abilities from the Summon ought to be limited to what is reasonable from the specific item being controlled. An SUV is not going to fly. Except briefly after being driven off the side of a cliff of course.

 

I leave open the question of how long it's going to take a player to define an appropriate Summon build when using this power in the midst of combat.

[The Monster]

Re: Remote Control

 

For the character The Chauffeur in my Champions campaign, I did this:

 

For simple remote operation, a fine-manipulation Telekinesis (to operate the controls) linked with a Clairsentience (to *see* the controls). Straightforward stuff, and since the TK is only STR 10 or so, there's the possibliity that the actual driver can struggle for the controls.

 

For more advanced control, what I did was build a Summon effect, which summons an AI into the target machine. This gives it an EGO, and a handy framework for dealing with the machine as if it were a living thing (which, in a limited sense, it becomes once a "mind" is summoned into it). It's a very cheap effect, but considering that it is limited to available machines, the power so far hasn't been unbalancing - what does happen, though, is that there are times the power is decisive, and times when it is useless. In the fight in the city park, it was pretty much useless; but in the fight against invading mechs, it was decisive, since the hero could trigger the ejection seat after just a phase or two of summoning and negotiating. This form of the power means that I have to be very careful about using robots and vehicles as key plot elements (androids and such are okay, since the Summon can't work against anything that already has EGO).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Remote Control

 

Good points: I have done it with summon before. Trouble is that summoning an AI is not necessarily helpful: putting an AI in a gun doesn't allow you to fire it, for example (program: fire gun, maybe?), and the problem, as you identify, of making up a build for the entire object as an automaton is how much it slows down the game. Also there is not necessarily any good reason why a small car is harder to control than a large car, even though the latter is built on more points...

 

I'm not too worried about controlling dangerous objects: I man a college professor and part time actor is probably harder to mind control than lot of superhero bricks, but the latter if far more dangerous as a weapon in combat

 

The TK idea is also something I've tried, but it is not so good for electronics: I mean how do you change the traffic lights when there is no obvious switch to push?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Remote Control

 

I started a discussion on this topic a few months ago: http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53532

 

 

Nothing was really resolved to my satisfaction. Different people do things different ways, which I suppose is fair enough. Control of the environment will have variable impact from campaign to campaign. For me, Mind Control (machine class of minds) should work but needs special rules to accommodate targets without an EGO or INT Characteristic. Others say you have to use TK, while others say you have to use a hoard of Powers, possibly a VPP (actually your suggestion Sean), to simulate the various things you can do by remote controlling machines.

 

I'm still indecisive about it. Mind Control will work for me for now, but I'm not sure if it'll work for me in my next campaign. I'm pretty sure we don't need new Power for it though. Too much SFX involved in it.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Remote Control

 

I started a discussion on this topic a few months ago: http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53532

 

 

Nothing was really resolved to my satisfaction. Different people do things different ways, which I suppose is fair enough. Control of the environment will have variable impact from campaign to campaign. For me, Mind Control (machine class of minds) should work but needs special rules to accommodate targets without an EGO or INT Characteristic. Others say you have to use TK, while others say you have to use a hoard of Powers, possibly a VPP (actually your suggestion Sean), to simulate the various things you can do by remote controlling machines.

 

I'm still indecisive about it. Mind Control will work for me for now, but I'm not sure if it'll work for me in my next campaign. I'm pretty sure we don't need new Power for it though. Too much SFX involved in it.

 

The 'new power' I've suggested is really just an adaption of the mind control rules adapted for the non-sentient, or at least that is the base idea. The only reason I did not make it ECV targetting is that the targets won't have an ECV, so some adaption is necessary

[Dust Raven]

Re: Remote Control

 

The 'new power' I've suggested is really just an adaption of the mind control rules adapted for the non-sentient' date=' or at least that is the base idea. The only reason I did not make it ECV targetting is that the targets won't have an ECV, so some adaption is necessary [/quote']

 

The targets don't have a DCV either.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Remote Control

 

The targets don't have a DCV either.

 

Well they do, it is just ridiculously low

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Remote Control

 

For cars, I once half in jest suggested Combat Driving, Usable At Range.

[gojira]

Re: Remote Control

 

Transform, Device Into Device Operating Differently.

 

 

What?

 

 

But seriously, a lot depends on what you can do with it. Control your own vehicle? HRRP for both you and the vehicle and I'd probably allow you to control it remotely.

 

(Hmm, but how does the car recognize a password? This does seem to be a situation where an AI is necessary.)

 

Do you control traffic lights to cause traffic jams? That's Change Environment. Do you control electrical devices to terrify your victims with your awesome power? That's +PRE. Do you bring your car to you? Summon. Do you push buttons on the TV or computer? That's TK.

 

And so on. With the right SFX (Gadgets, magnetism, electrial powers, TK powers) I might let you have a minor effect with a Power Skill Roll.

 

If you often cause a specific effect, then you ought to by that one as a power. If you start causing a lot of different effects, all the time, in combat, you might have a VPP.

 

As always, it depends what you want to do, how overpowering it is or how much it might overshadow other players, and how much you annoy the GM with it. Just be cool, play fair with the points and other players feelings, and make sure everyone is having fun. Then you can do anything.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Remote Control

 

Transform, Device Into Device Operating Differently.

 

 

What?

 

 

But seriously, a lot depends on what you can do with it. Control your own vehicle? HRRP for both you and the vehicle and I'd probably allow you to control it remotely.

 

(Hmm, but how does the car recognize a password? This does seem to be a situation where an AI is necessary.)

 

Do you control traffic lights to cause traffic jams? That's Change Environment. Do you control electrical devices to terrify your victims with your awesome power? That's +PRE. Do you bring your car to you? Summon. Do you push buttons on the TV or computer? That's TK.

 

And so on. With the right SFX (Gadgets, magnetism, electrial powers, TK powers) I might let you have a minor effect with a Power Skill Roll.

 

If you often cause a specific effect, then you ought to by that one as a power. If you start causing a lot of different effects, all the time, in combat, you might have a VPP.

 

As always, it depends what you want to do, how overpowering it is or how much it might overshadow other players, and how much you annoy the GM with it. Just be cool, play fair with the points and other players feelings, and make sure everyone is having fun. Then you can do anything.

 

 

You can use lots of different powers, yes. You can buy a VPP (as I apparently previously suggested) to cover all the options. However that is complicated and difficult to build, and you would be constantly arguing over the right way to do it (for example, shouldn't changing the traffic lights be an images power, as you can't use CE to create light?)

 

Machine Control is a single, relatively straightforward concept that vastly simplifies building a certian concept IF it can be simulated by a single power.

 

I'm not saying the build I've suggested is right, or the best way to do it or whatever, but it is based on another control power, is Hero consistent and does the job in a straightforward, scaled manner.

 

Now if it is too powerful, we need to play with the cost or mechanics, but there is not a single power (well, maybe transform, as suggestsed!) that can be used to simulate this relatively straightforward concept. Perhaps there should be.

[dsatow]

Re: Remote Control

 

Gosh, my universal remote control is really expensive!

 

It activates all my devices' (TV, VCR, TIVO, DVD, CABLE, STEREO) buttons. (obviously a TK with fine manipulation)

 

It can turn on several devices at one time (the TK gets AoE hex with selective).

 

It can be used to program many of the items in question and has its own count down timer (Transform? and maybe triggered also on the TK with absolute time sense).

 

Seriously, though

 

I would think it would depend on how much of an effect you can do "realistically" and how the GM would rule the target works.

 

For instance in my world, to control a car, you could purchase TK with the limitation to only manipulate the target. This would allow you open a car doors, start the car, turn on the radio, move it around, fasten seatbelts. Fine manipulation would allow you to do complex driving manuevers, set the radio to a station, adjust the air conditioning.

 

Summoning an AI, would allow it to act autonomously. It could make its own decisions based on its own thoughts.

 

A Transform, would change it into a transformer-esque car. Allowing it to hit people with tire like fists.

 

Mind control to machine intellects would allow the user to control the computer aided items. Mess with the trip computer, adjust the gas regulation, affect the diagnostics, reset the clock or take control of the AI if you summoned an AI into the vehicle.

 

Note that this is just my $.02.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Remote Control

 

For instance in my world' date=' to control a car, you could purchase TK with the limitation to only manipulate the target. This would allow you open a car doors, start the car, turn on the radio, move it around, fasten seatbelts. Fine manipulation would allow you to do complex driving manuevers, set the radio to a station, adjust the air conditioning.[/quote']

 

I would differentiate by saying TK could be used to turn the steering wheel, press the break or the accelerator, turn on or off the blinker or lights, etc... all as separate actions requiring their own effort. TK with Fine Manipulation would allow you to drive the car.