Ablative defences

[Sean Waters]

I've not been entirely happy with the way that Hero deals with ablative defences - reducing activation rolls or 5 active point reduction per hit that could penetrate and do Body....

 

 

....so, thinking:

 

EITHER

 

PD with a limitation that it can only be used once per combat, eg

 

20 pd, useable once per combat (character has 15 normal pd). First hit does 30 damage, so all stopped (30-35) and 15 of the ablative pd is used up. next hit also delivers 30 damage and (30-20)=10 gets through and all the ablative pd is gone. What limtiation would you allow on that? Base on 1 recoverable charge (which would make it -1 1/4)?

 

OR

 

Buy extra stun that can only be recovered out of combat (-1/2?) and some sort of extra CON (no figured, only to prevent stunning, only whilst extra stun remains unused, total -1 1/2) to, well, prevent stunning? Actually, could you buy stun with charges too?

 

If you did buy pd or stun with charges would you need to activate it (and so burn it if it was used or not), or would it be there and the limit would just prevent reuse? if the former you could buy:

 

PD (or stun) with a recoverable fuel charge, say 1 minute duration, would be -1/2...

 

Am I crazed*?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*OK, we all know the answer to that one - I meant about THIS?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Ablative defences

 

This sounds like a job for...

 

Aid

 

50 Ablative "Buff": Aid CON and STUN 10d6 (standard effect: 30 points), [two powers] simultaneously (+1/2) (150 Active Points); Self Only (-1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Extra Time (Extra Phase, Only to Activate, -1/2) - END=15

 

You can exchange the STUN and CON for PD and ED as well as tweak the numbers a bit. Have fun.

 

or

 

45 Ablative "Buff" Alternative: Aid CON, PD, ED and STUN 6d6 (standard effect: 18 points), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), [four powers] simultaneously (+1) (135 Active Points); Self Only (-1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Extra Time (Extra Phase, Only to Activate, -1/2) - END=13

[bwdemon]

Re: Ablative defences

 

I like the 5AP variant, though I will vary the degree of ablativeness with the limitation value (e.g. 3AP for -1/2 or 10AP for -2).

 

You could build a defensive power with boostable charges, trigger, and the limitation that you must use as many charges as necessary to stop all damage. Make it something like a +5pd/+5ed force field with 16 boostable charges and you could take an 80 STUN hit once before it failed.

 

I dislike the 15- Ablative mechanic, because you start off unprotected in a given area. If you got to apply the defense to the attack you missed the roll for, then I would like this more.

 

Aid doesn't work for me due to the return rate issue.

[schir1964]

Re: Ablative defences

 

I've not been entirely happy with the way that Hero deals with ablative defences...

Okay, let's pretend that the Ablative Limitation doesn't exist and then reason from SFX.

 

I presume that the most common SFX would be a physical armor that protects the character by absorbing the damage which in turn destroys the armor. The only way to repair the armor is to go back to the shop or buy a new one.

 

So we have several ways to build this using the existing rules:

1) PD/ED with Focus Limitation

2) Armor with Focus Limitation

3) Force Field with Focus Limitation

 

If the ablative armor can be repaired/recharged simply out of combat then the following:

1) PD/ED (Costs END) assigned to an END Reserve (Recharge Rate - Out Of Combat Only)

2) Armor (Costs END) assigned to an END Reserve (Recharge Rate - Out Of Combat Only)

3) Force Field assigned to an END Reserve (Recharge Rate - Out Of Combat Only)

 

This will at least give you something to base the cost off of.

 

Just Some Ideas

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Sean Waters]

Re: Ablative defences

 

This sounds like a job for...

 

Aid

 

50 Ablative "Buff": Aid CON and STUN 10d6 (standard effect: 30 points), [two powers] simultaneously (+1/2) (150 Active Points); Self Only (-1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Extra Time (Extra Phase, Only to Activate, -1/2) - END=15

 

You can exchange the STUN and CON for PD and ED as well as tweak the numbers a bit. Have fun.

 

or

 

45 Ablative "Buff" Alternative: Aid CON, PD, ED and STUN 6d6 (standard effect: 18 points), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), [four powers] simultaneously (+1) (135 Active Points); Self Only (-1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Extra Time (Extra Phase, Only to Activate, -1/2) - END=13

 

 

This would be an excellent way to build an energy shield, but not quite right for physical ablative defences (say some sort of reactive armour coating) because (as bwdemon) mentions, the fade rate thing. Very good idea for the right concept though - cheers!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Ablative defences

 

This would be an excellent way to build an energy shield' date=' but not quite right for physical ablative defences (say some sort of reactive armour coating) because (as bwdemon) mentions, the fade rate thing. Very good idea for the right concept though - cheers![/quote']

 

There must be a bug going around lately. Everyone keeps assigning SFX to specific powers which everyone knows you're not supposed to do in HERO.

 

 

The only thing I didn't add to those builds from your initial suggestion was the continuing charge. Once that's done it fits your descibed SFX perfectly.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Ablative defences

 

There must be a bug going around lately. Everyone keeps assigning SFX to specific powers which everyone knows you're not supposed to do in HERO.

 

 

The only thing I didn't add to those builds from your initial suggestion was the continuing charge. Once that's done it fits your descibed SFX perfectly.

 

Not a bug: to complete a power you need a combination of mechanical build and sfx. Some builds work with some sfx, but not all. Your suggestions work (for me at least) as a field or other barrier that needs to be constantly topped up or it fades away, because of the mechanical strictures of the Aid power. It does not work (for me at least) as a physical barrier designed to be destroyed to dissipate energy that does not fade, like reactive armour or perhaps a foamed barrier that is easily destroyed, but protects until it is gone, and remains gone until it is rebuilt (you can do that last bit with an Aid that takes a while to re-use, but not the 'doesn't fade' bit).

 

In short, I think that yours is an excellent solution but not necessarily a general one.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Ablative defences

 

PD with a limitation that it can only be used once per combat, eg

 

20 pd, useable once per combat (character has 15 normal pd). First hit does 30 damage, so all stopped (30-35) and 15 of the ablative pd is used up. next hit also delivers 30 damage and (30-20)=10 gets through and all the ablative pd is gone. What limtiation would you allow on that? Base on 1 recoverable charge (which would make it -1 1/4)?

I'm not sure I'm following your numbers here, but I don't see why you couldn't easily do this with Charges (either recoverable or not).

 

Just buy:

Base DEF of "X"(whatever source it is: PD/ED/FF/Armor/etc.) at no limitation - this is the level of defense you have all the time, if any.

+A more DEF (whatever defense power it is), at say 6 recoverable charges (-1/4)

+B more DEF, with 4 Recoverable Charges (-1/2)

+C more DEF, 3 Recoverable Charges (-7/5)

+D more DEF, 2 Recoverable Charges (-1)

+E more DEF, 1 Recoverable Charge (-1.25)

 

Thus, at the beginning of each combat, you have a total DEF of X+A+B+C+D+E. After taking your first hit, you'll have X+A+B+C+D. After two more hits, you'll have X+A+B. After one more hit, you'll have X+A, which you'll have for your next two hits, and then you'll be down to just X. Then you can take some time out of combat and put it back up to full, subject to the GM allowing all such charges to be recovered easily.

 

And of course, you can pick whatever number of charges you want for each level.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Ablative defences

 

I've not been entirely happy with the way that Hero deals with ablative defences - reducing activation rolls or 5 active point reduction per hit that could penetrate and do Body....

 

Generally, in multiple sources including real life, when ablative armor is hit it doesn't reduce the defense of the total; it makes a hole in one part while leaving the other parts untouched. This is pretty well represented by reducing (or giving it) the Activation Roll.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Ablative defences

 

Chris Goodwin makes a very good point: the sort of 'physical' ablative armour I've been worrying about is probably pretty well represented by the curernt mechanics, whereas an 'energy field, which would be weakened but not holed as it is hit is well represented by HyperMan's build suggested above.

 

Do you know, I think this little chat has clarified the issues for me and I'm very satisfied with the place I've reached.

 

Many thanks to all who have helped me on this journey.

 

(Please don't think I'm trying to draw the thread to a close if you think i'd be even happier just a little bit further down the road )

[Rapier]

Re: Ablative defences

 

My main problem with Ablative is that it doesn't grok with my interpreation of Ablative.

 

30 DEF Ablative.

 

Get hit with a 12 BODY attack....18 DEF left. THAT is ablative. It wears away after being used.

 

But that's just me.