Question: Chi Power Defense

[palaskar]

Hi, I've been busy trying to write up a heroic-level MA who by means of his extraordinary fighting style, can beat almost any other MA -- with a bit of luck for the high-end chars, natch.

 

One of the test opponents for this char was the recently posted Black Cat.

 

Now, BC has a 20-pt Power Defense defined as "It's -my- Chi." The character I'm writing up has Dex and Speed Drains defined as "leading the opponent" and "blending with the opponent", respectively.

 

Now, my rules-lawyer side says, yes, BC's Power Defense applies. However, my common sense says, no, it does not apply because of the SFX of her Power Defense.

 

How would you rule this?

[Edsel]

Re: Question: Chi Power Defense

 

By the letter of the rules your rules lawyer is right. Otherwise you are either penalizing BC's defense for which she should get a Limitation. Or you are granting a bonus to your character's attack (which should require an Advantage).

 

A rational way to explain the effectiveness of BC Ch'i defense is that Chi'i (according to the Ultimate Martial Artist) is the development of one's internal power. This could mean that her defense allows her to shield herself from being anticipated or blended with. In essence her intentions and rhythm are hard to read.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Question: Chi Power Defense

 

Perhaps certain abilities should really be constructed as NND or AVLD Drains?

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Question: Chi Power Defense

 

A rational way to explain the effectiveness of BC Ch'i defense is that Chi'i (according to the Ultimate Martial Artist) is the development of one's internal power. This could mean that her defense allows her to shield herself from being anticipated or blended with. In essence her intentions and rhythm are hard to read.

 

That is one way to read it.

 

To be honest I likely should have put a small lim on it, but that kind of stuff comes up so rarely in the campaign. That power defense is basically her ability to keep any kind of thing affecting her body/powers ect - whether it be magic, technilogical or martial arts based.

 

The SFX of the original posters powers would by SFX get around her Power D.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Question: Chi Power Defense

 

 

One of the test opponents for this char was the recently posted Black Cat.

Hey, I'm a benchmark -cool!

Now, BC has a 20-pt Power Defense defined as "It's -my- Chi." The character I'm writing up has Dex and Speed Drains defined as "leading the opponent" and "blending with the opponent", respectively.

 

How would you rule this?

 

In the game that Black Cat is run in, those kind of abilities wouldn't be bought as a drain, because if someone else showed up and she switched targets, those effects would not be in place - so the effect is not decreasing Cat's effectiveness, but increasing the effectiveness of the weilder of said abilities against Cat.

 

So in her native campaign the "leading the opponent" and "Blending with the opponent" would be Aid (or Succor) to the user, rather than Drains against the target. The Aid having a "only vs this target" kind of limitation.

 

When you get the character done, please post - I love seeing other martial arts ideas to be used - I tend to steal ideas I like and buy them with experience.

 

One of the things I have for her in the future is Unpredictable Tactics: Lack of Weakness vs Style Anysis 10 pts.

[palaskar]

Re: Question: Chi Power Defense

 

Cool! Thanks for how you would stat it up, LordMhoram.

 

But I've been crunching the numbers lately, it seems more effecient to give the character (called "Ziran" right now, after the Chinese word for "nature" or "natural") straight stat bonuses instead of Aid or Succor. Flat bonuses to SPD, DEX, and/or STR seem to be a better choice, even with the Limitations Only in Hand to Hand Combat (-1/2) and Bonuses Disappear Totally When Opposing Character(s) Moves Out of Hand to Hand Combat Range (-1.)

 

Otherwise, characters like Black Cat will thrash Ziran, even with Ziran's Timestopping, [which is defined as +SPD (right now, 6 SPD), costs END], because it will take time for the Aids/Succors to reach maximum.

 

Your thoughts?

 

BTW, do you think my Limitations are off? The first one seems OK to me, but I'm not sure if the second should be more.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Question: Chi Power Defense

 

Cool! Thanks for how you would stat it up' date=' LordMhoram. [/quote']

Sure. I've been playing Black Cat for something like 14-15 years.. I have had a lot of thoughts about her, and how to do things martial artsy.

Yes, Ninja HERO and UMA are my favorite books.

 

Otherwise, characters like Black Cat will thrash Ziran, even with Ziran's Timestopping, [which is defined as +SPD (right now, 6 SPD), costs END], because it will take time for the Aids/Succors to reach maximum.

Don't feel to bad about that - as I said she's been played for a decade and a half. Her next really ugly power is her "Ch'i Overdrive" - an aid that takes a turn to go, and costs a bunch of end to start, but it adds 10 pts to all physical characteristics, 20 to PD, ED, CON, and 30 to DEX & Speed. It only lasts for a turn, and she can only do it every hour or so, but under the overdrive she'll have a 12 speed. Something I've wanted to do with a character since I started playing the game - but it will be a bit before I buy it. It is just a bit too much right now.

But I've been crunching the numbers lately, it seems more effecient to give the character (called "Ziran" right now, after the Chinese word for "nature" or "natural") straight stat bonuses instead of Aid or Succor. Flat bonuses to SPD, DEX, and/or STR seem to be a better choice, even with the Limitations Only in Hand to Hand Combat (-1/2) and Bonuses Disappear Totally When Opposing Character(s) Moves Out of Hand to Hand Combat Range (-1.)

Your thoughts?

 

BTW, do you think my Limitations are off? The first one seems OK to me, but I'm not sure if the second should be more.

 

The only in HTH could make sense. Athough I am always leery of midturn speed changes - I find them awkward. Any time I have a speed boost, it only kicks in in 12 and lasts 1 turn.

 

The "bonuses diappear when opposes character moves out of HtH" - there are two question for the value of the limitation -

first - does it take time for these bonuses to return - or if Ziran did a half move and caught up to the target, would the bonuses reappear instantly. If so that isn't much of complete lim (especially STR, but some for Dex)

 

second and more importantly - does the character have any kind of non HtH offense. If not than the second limitation is worth less than a -1. The limitation doesn't limit the character much - basically it doesn't help ranged DCV (or skills or figured), but if the only offense the character has is a HtH offense, having a limitation that kills his abilities when not in HtH range doesn't limit the character all that much.

[palaskar]

Re: Question: Chi Power Defense

 

Lord Mhoram:

Yes, Ninja HERO and UMA are my favorite books.

 

Me too! I've been toying with write-ups for Hikuta/Kuta, Li Ho Ba Fa, and Russian MA (K-sys is the favorite of mine over Systema, but not by that much -- buy the K-sys manual if you can afford it [$35 US] off the K-sys site, it's well worth it.)

 

Now to return from the threadjack:

 

LordMhoram wrote:

The only in HTH could make sense. Athough I am always leery of midturn speed changes - I find them awkward. Any time I have a speed boost, it only kicks in in 12 and lasts 1 turn.

 

The "bonuses diappear when opposes character moves out of HtH" - there are two question for the value of the limitation -

first - does it take time for these bonuses to return - or if Ziran did a half move and caught up to the target, would the bonuses reappear instantly. If so that isn't much of complete lim (especially STR, but some for Dex)

 

second and more importantly - does the character have any kind of non HtH offense. If not than the second limitation is worth less than a -1. The limitation doesn't limit the character much - basically it doesn't help ranged DCV (or skills or figured), but if the only offense the character has is a HtH offense, having a limitation that kills his abilities when not in HtH range doesn't limit the character all that much.

 

Nope, half move doesn't work. Ziran is supposed to have the world's best straight HtH style -- so if you move out of HtH range, he has to adjust completely again. Thus, no ranged offense either -- though I've been thinking about a Desolid dodge/escape power. Would that mess up the Limitation?

 

I'm completely cool about a character who can beat up nearly anybody in HtH combat, but can still be stopped by a gun, if that messes up the Limitation. (That is, I'm completely willing to drop that Desolid power.) That's why he has the Systema "Keep Moving!" normal maneuver -- +4 DCV Dodge, Full Move, after all -- in his non "super powered" MA.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Question: Chi Power Defense

 

Maybe just a really large number of HTH skill levels, perhaps with a limit "not for ranged DCV"?

[Southern Cross]

Re: Question: Chi Power Defense

 

I thought that HTH combat levels only applied to melee attacks anyway.

[OzMike]

Re: Question: Chi Power Defense

 

I thought that HTH combat levels only applied to melee attacks anyway.

 

I thought so too, except in one case:

 

I thought you could apply 5pt HTH levels to Dodge and have them count against ranged attacks that way.

 

e.g. 3 levels with HTH plus a normal (non-martial) dodge equals 6 DCV vs all attacks.

[palaskar]

Re: Question: Chi Power Defense

 

Argh! You've messed up my write up of the character.

 

Now, how do I simulate STR/HtH Damage bonuses at the same time? I'm not sure if I just want to use HtH combat levels.

 

And then I have to add Lightning Reflexes...but probably not as bad as before. The write-up I have right now maxes out at hmm, I dunno, 63 Dex or so with all the bonuses stacked on IIRC.

 

(Yes, it's really that high for Ziran. Right now, he's at Super Saiyan 2 level if you add his regular bonuses before combat, his Dex Aid, and the 3 stacking bonuses of Str and Dex to simulate a Kaioken-like power.)