OIHID and/or Focus

[JmOz]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

strange thought:

 

How OIHID is currently written you could use other lims to do the same job

 

 

Taking young Billy, he actualy has Incantations on all of his powers

[OddHat]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

strange thought:

 

How OIHID is currently written you could use other lims to do the same job

 

 

Taking young Billy, he actualy has Incantations on all of his powers

 

You can use other limitations, and builds, for most things in HERO. Billy, for instance, could be built with a Multiform and incantations only on that. Also, he probably shouldn't be built with Incantations on all of his powers, unless you assume that his flight is always technically running even when he appears to be standing on the ground.

[JmOz]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

True, I was actualy trying to get to the point (and I am extremly tired, so bear with me) that the way it is written up you are basicaly asked to place a limitaiton on how the transformation works that is compatible with at least a -1/4 lim...

[OddHat]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

True' date=' I was actualy trying to get to the point (and I am extremly tired, so bear with me) that the way it is written up you are basicaly asked to place a limitaiton on how the transformation works that is compatible with at least a -1/4 lim...[/quote']

 

Pretty much. The text on p.302, 5thER, specifies that the change should take at least a full phase in which the character can take no other actions, and/or there should be some way of preventing the change. I usually require both, including enforcing the rule on changing speeds (if Billy has SPD 3 and the Captain has SPD 6, and Billy makes the change on Phase 12, the Captain doesn't get an action until Phase 4, the first phase 3 shares with 6). Having to stand there for a few phases at the start of combat without being able to act strikes me as a valid -1/4 limit, even if it doesn't come up in every fight.

[input.jack]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

I honestly dont see the controversy here.

 

Focus limitations mean that the powers in question are housed in an item, and that said item can be lost, stolen, or broken.

 

Only In Hero ID means that the powers in question are unavailable to the character when they are not in costume, for whatever reason. It may be because the character doe not ever carry said items unless in full regalia, or it may be that the item is incredibly distinctive and thus pulling it out would destroy the characters secret ID.

 

The idea that the item housing the powers is so distinctive that merely having it would "out" the character seems simple and clear to me.

 

* If Tony Stark needs to see something far away while in a tuxedo with a bunch of investors, and whips out the Iron Man helmet from his briefcase, thats going to out him as Iron Man. Thus, the focus of the helmet should also include OIHID. (Or could include it. Matter of Player preference).

 

* Bruce Wayne pulls a Batarang out from under his coat and throws it at the delivery boy leaving without taking his important memo to Lucius Fox. Another ID outed by use of a focus.

 

* Peter Parker thwips his coat off the rack with his web-shooters on the way out of class. OIHID on a focus yet again.

 

* Frank Castle pulls a .45 long-slide pistol from under his coat. Look! Its a focus! But its mundane and common, so it doesnt have OIHID on it, because having it doesnt mean that hes necessarily anyone in particular.

 

Thats my take on it.

[OddHat]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

I honestly dont see the controversy here.

 

Focus limitations mean that the powers in question are housed in an item, and that said item can be lost, stolen, or broken.

 

Only In Hero ID means that the powers in question are unavailable to the character when they are not in costume, for whatever reason. It may be because the character doe not ever carry said items unless in full regalia, or it may be that the item is incredibly distinctive and thus pulling it out would destroy the characters secret ID.

 

The idea that the item housing the powers is so distinctive that merely having it would "out" the character seems simple and clear to me.

 

* If Tony Stark needs to see something far away while in a tuxedo with a bunch of investors, and whips out the Iron Man helmet from his briefcase, thats going to out him as Iron Man. Thus, the focus of the helmet should also include OIHID. (Or could include it. Matter of Player preference).

 

* Bruce Wayne pulls a Batarang out from under his coat and throws it at the delivery boy leaving without taking his important memo to Lucius Fox. Another ID outed by use of a focus.

 

* Peter Parker thwips his coat off the rack with his web-shooters on the way out of class. OIHID on a focus yet again.

 

* Frank Castle pulls a .45 long-slide pistol from under his coat. Look! Its a focus! But its mundane and common, so it doesnt have OIHID on it, because having it doesnt mean that hes necessarily anyone in particular.

 

None of those meet the "Full Phase, Unable to do anything else" suggested in the 5thER write up of OIHID; I'd be reluctant to approve them for any limit above the focus limit. I do see your point about revealing a secret ID, but the PC already got points for that when he took the Secret ID disad.

[Gideon]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

I usually require both' date=' including enforcing the rule on changing speeds (if Billy has SPD 3 and the Captain has SPD 6, and Billy makes the change on Phase 12, the Captain doesn't get an action until Phase 4, the first phase 3 shares with 6). Having to stand there for a few phases at the start of combat without being able to act strikes me as a valid -1/4 limit, even if it doesn't come up in every fight.[/quote'] I realize this is slightly off topic, but I always thought that SPD crossover worked differently.

 

I thought that if you change from SPD 3 to SPD 6 on phase 12, since it is a crossover phase that you would then be able to act again on 2...

 

input.jack: I have to say I disagree. I believe that all of the examples you mention fall under the catagory of "maintaining a secret Identity" which is covered under haveing the character disadvantage. I think that allowing those characters to be defined as having both OIHID and Focus would be greatly imbalancing.

[Trebuchet]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

I realize this is slightly off topic, but I always thought that SPD crossover worked differently.

 

I thought that if you change from SPD 3 to SPD 6 on phase 12, since it is a crossover phase that you would then be able to act again on 2...

I can see why it's done that way. Since most combats by default start in Phase 12, being able to change SPD in Phase 12 wouldn't be much of a Limitation. I think only SPD 1 doesn't act in Phase 12.

[ghost-angel]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

I realize this is slightly off topic, but I always thought that SPD crossover worked differently.

 

I thought that if you change from SPD 3 to SPD 6 on phase 12, since it is a crossover phase that you would then be able to act again on 2...

 

input.jack: I have to say I disagree. I believe that all of the examples you mention fall under the catagory of "maintaining a secret Identity" which is covered under haveing the character disadvantage. I think that allowing those characters to be defined as having both OIHID and Focus would be greatly imbalancing.

 

You're correct, mostly

 

If you raise or lower your SPD the standard rule is you must wait until the Post-12 and your new SPD takes effect in the next Turn starting with Segment 1.

 

And Optional Rule is to change your SPD before Post-12, in which case you can next act when both your original SPD and your new SPD share a Phase.

 

5ER p357

[Guest steamteck]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

It seems to me the difference is a focus can just be grabbed up and or easy put on ( Thor's hammer. belt of strength, dynamos power belt. Mento's helmet) wheres only hero ID could be combined with focus to represent powered armor or something similar that you really can't just whip out of your purse. "blast if only I were in my armor but its in it cradle back in the base!" In my campaign we use this combo and the armor has to be usually has to be carried around in a truck or something. Any combat outfit that isn't that small and /or takes a scene to put on could apply.

[Kristopher]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

I honestly dont see the controversy here.

 

Focus limitations mean that the powers in question are housed in an item, and that said item can be lost, stolen, or broken.

 

Only In Hero ID means that the powers in question are unavailable to the character when they are not in costume, for whatever reason. It may be because the character doe not ever carry said items unless in full regalia, or it may be that the item is incredibly distinctive and thus pulling it out would destroy the characters secret ID.

 

The idea that the item housing the powers is so distinctive that merely having it would "out" the character seems simple and clear to me.

 

* If Tony Stark needs to see something far away while in a tuxedo with a bunch of investors, and whips out the Iron Man helmet from his briefcase, thats going to out him as Iron Man. Thus, the focus of the helmet should also include OIHID. (Or could include it. Matter of Player preference).

 

* Bruce Wayne pulls a Batarang out from under his coat and throws it at the delivery boy leaving without taking his important memo to Lucius Fox. Another ID outed by use of a focus.

 

* Peter Parker thwips his coat off the rack with his web-shooters on the way out of class. OIHID on a focus yet again.

 

* Frank Castle pulls a .45 long-slide pistol from under his coat. Look! Its a focus! But its mundane and common, so it doesnt have OIHID on it, because having it doesnt mean that hes necessarily anyone in particular.

 

Thats my take on it.

 

So what you're saying is that you use OiHID to represent the problem of having something that marks you has "This is Hero So-and-So", and not to represent a significant change the character has to make to get into his "Hero ID"?

 

Others have said that this is covered by taking the Secret ID Disadvantage, where the character already received points. Combined with the argument about already receiving a Focus Limitation on the Armor, I think I understand why some people consider taking OiHID and Focus on the same powers to be "double-dipping".

[Clonus]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

It seems to me the difference is a focus can just be grabbed up and or easy put on ( Thor's hammer. belt of strength' date=' dynamos power belt. Mento's helmet) wheres only hero ID could be combined with focus to represent powered armor or something similar that you really can't just whip out of your purse. "blast if only I were in my armor but its in it cradle back in the base!" .[/quote']

 

When you have Secret Identity without Instant Change, the time it takes to change into costume is part of the package.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

When you have Secret Identity without Instant Change' date=' the time it takes to change into costume is part of the package.[/quote']

 

its a whole level of inaccessibly difference. The difference between changing from your civies compared to having to get into your non portable 100+ Kg. armor is significant that HAS to be stored elsewhere. I personally require Powered armor to take that disadvantage or I'd have to let then carry around in a briefcase to be fair,

[Adventus]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

I actually have character that has both OIF and OIHID on several of his powers. I explain it thusly: powers are usable only in hero Id and he wears a suit of armor(OIF) that enhances his powers. i.e. focusing gems in palms to increase the power of his eb and flash. The suit is aerodynamic allowing him to fly faster and be more maneuverable. The only power just OIF was the Defenses of the suit of armor. The enhanced power from the suit was worthless if not in hero id, However he could use the lower power level without the suit and fly slower.

[wateroutoffish]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

Yes, I agree. OIHID + FOCUS represents the following. A power that is derived from a focus that cannot simply be grabbed, but must be changed into, or activated in a way that changes id over time etc. OHID means is only a -1/4 and further defines an effect, and alone can be used for all sorts of things and represents a level of complication that is not inherent in OIF alone for say power armor. It is the difference between having the Belt of Powerful armor that can be worn and utilized instantly from your secret id, although of course it will out you as the hero you are, it does not take the full turn to get on. Where as a suit of powerarmor would have to include both FOCUS and OIHID unless of course it can be somehow carried and simply whipped out around you in an single action.

 

[ghost-angel]

Re: OIHID and/or Focus

 

Here's an example I can think of that might use both Limitations.

 

Thor, actually needs Mengigjord (a belt granting him the strength of a Giant) to weild his Hammer.

 

A character playing someone who changes into Thor (ignore the comic book guy for the moment) does so by taking a moment (read: Phase) to put on Mengigjord (which grants him STR: OIHID), which is the only way he can wield is Hammer (OIF, it returns to his hand on command).

 

The Hammer could conceivably take both OIF and OIHID since he can't access it without the belt and it is a focus that can at least temporarily be taken away from him.