How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

by the book, skill modifiers Do apply to familiarities.

 

So this means at a simple familiarity level, routine tasks have a roll of not 8- but 11- to 13-. Thats pretty good odds. Easy tasks have a success rate of 9- to 11-. Again, not so bad.

 

in a modern american city, i would be ruling that finding a place that isn't hiding and such (using phone book, mapquest, etc) to definitely fall into routine and things like knowing neighborhoods and broader trands to be more in the easy... etc.

 

modifiers include bonuses for extra time and materials, so for example a LAW question asked of a law stundent who has access to a law library and time to go look things up could easily get into the 11- or higher ranges, starting with familiarity.

 

Extra Time is a key one here. If asked a question of law, and the lawyer with 14- (expert in his field) has a 17- chance to know the answer off the top of his head (one phase; 3 point skill modifier making this a routine to easy task), the articling student with an 8- skill roll has a 62.5% chance (8+3 Modifier = 11) to know the answer off the top of his head as well. With an hour to research (5 steps up the time chart), that's now 16-, so the student should get the right answer.

 

Yes, it DOES take an hour of research for a raw recruit to find things the expert knows off the top of his head. The expert also knows where to look, so even questions he does not know off the top of his head are quicker to research.

 

of course' date=' i dont find it at all uncommon for hero players to basically go "skill modifiers?" :-)[/quote']

 

IOW, roll 8- to succeed in finding your house with your Everyman AK skill...

 

However' date=' i would say its incumbent on the Gm to try and communicate his campaign preferences and presumptions to the players. I often do this by providing a suite of sample characters, both "pc level supers" and simple normals, so they can see whather being a practicing doctor requires medicine at 16- or medicine 11- or somewhere in between, so that their characters can get the appropriate levels of skill for the expectations to be similar.[/quote']

 

This is key - it's just as critical as everyone being under the same expectations of DC ranges, Speed ranges, Defenses and CV's.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Well, I've finally found some game related things I definitely disagree with Hugh on.

 

The truth is most people suck at their job. As someone who has devoted considerable time and thought into becoming a good carpenter, I can tell you that I am in a small minority, and that holds true with every job in the construction field. Since Skill modifiers apply to familiarity's as pointed out earlier, that means that most of the time people are rolling a 10- to 12-. Fifty to 75 % (rough approx) of doing a job correctly? That's just about right.

 

Now it may well be that in Hugh's field all of the practitioners are skilled, motivated people, and that is also the case for all the people who work at his local grocery store, hardware store, electronics store, beauty salons, etc. but I doubt very much its true on this side of the Never Never land border.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Hey, I'm an American. We make fun of Canadians. I'm not going to say it's right, it's just what we do.

[Comic]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Well' date=' I've finally found some game related things I definitely disagree with Hugh on..[/quote']

 

It's not easy to do, is it?!

 

I have to look long and hard for nitpicks when trying to find unHugh opinions and points of view, myself.

 

Fortunately, I put one of my Everyman skills into KS: Contradiction, so I stand a chance some of the time.

 

(I'll let you guess if it was the 8-, or the 11-, EM skill.)

[Silbeg]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

I like to allocate 30 points for skills in pretty much every character I build these days, because I'm useless at 'skilling out' characters.

 

Here is the general breakdown, which I feel (assuming some application of thought is applied) tend to flesh out a character...(all knowledge/professional skills etc are considered characteristic based)

 

3 Area Knowledge: Where you come from 11-

3 Knowledge Skill: People 11-

3 Profession Skill: Your Job 11-

3 Profession Skill: Hobby 11-

3 Interaction Skill

3 Intellect Skill (not Analyse)

3 Science Skill or Knowledge Skill or 3 point Language Skill

3 Agility Skill (not Acrobatics or Breakfall or Fast draw or Stealth) or KS

6 Two more skills for the above list

 

Very interesting idea, Sean. I may have to do something with this!

[Silbeg]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Haven't followed all the discussion between hugh and Sean on skill merits... but...

 

by the book, skill modifiers Do apply to familiarities.

 

So this means at a simple familiarity level, routine tasks have a roll of not 8- but 11- to 13-. Thats pretty good odds. Easy tasks have a success rate of 9- to 11-. Again, not so bad.

 

in a modern american city, i would be ruling that finding a place that isn't hiding and such (using phone book, mapquest, etc) to definitely fall into routine and things like knowing neighborhoods and broader trands to be more in the easy... etc.

 

modifiers include bonuses for extra time and materials, so for example a LAW question asked of a law stundent who has access to a law library and time to go look things up could easily get into the 11- or higher ranges, starting with familiarity.

 

of course, i dont find it at all uncommon for hero players to basically go "skill modifiers?" :-)

 

However, i would say its incumbent on the Gm to try and communicate his campaign preferences and presumptions to the players. I often do this by providing a suite of sample characters, both "pc level supers" and simple normals, so they can see whather being a practicing doctor requires medicine at 16- or medicine 11- or somewhere in between, so that their characters can get the appropriate levels of skill for the expectations to be similar.

 

interesting... by any chance do you have a rules citation (page number)?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Well' date=' I've finally found some game related things I definitely disagree with Hugh on.[/quote']

 

It really shouldn't be that hard - I'm pretty opinionated and very stubborn

 

The truth is most people suck at their job. As someone who has devoted considerable time and thought into becoming a good carpenter' date=' I can tell you that I am in a small minority, and that holds true with every job in the construction field. Since Skill modifiers apply to familiarity's as pointed out earlier, that means that most of the time people are rolling a 10- to 12-. Fifty to 75 % (rough approx) of doing a job correctly? That's just about right.[/quote']

 

So that would mean most people don't have better than familiarity to do their jobs, since most parts of most jobs are routine. An 8- with +2 (middle of "simple task") to +4 (middle of "routine task") will get you a 10 to 12- get it right the first time without taking Extra Time. That's 50% to 75%. If virtually everyone had an 11- roll, they'd be up to a 13 to 15- roll, and getting those tasks right the first time about 83% to 95% of the time.

 

Now it may well be that in Hugh's field all of the practitioners are skilled' date=' motivated people, and that is also the case for all the people who work at his local grocery store, hardware store, electronics store, beauty salons, etc. but I doubt very much its true on this side of the Never Never land border.[/quote']

 

In general, they're good enough to get the job done, most requiring some supervision to catch/fix any problems.

 

Hey' date=' I'm an American. We make fun of Canadians. I'm not going to say it's right, it's just what we do.[/quote']

 

Based on your comments, and your and my locations, you're saying that it may be that workers in Canada are "skilled, motivated people", but that's definitely not the case in the US - and you're calling that making fun of CANADIANS?

[Trebuchet]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Jockies don't fall off the horse 1 race in 3' date=' but 62.5%, even rolled every race instead of every phase, implies they do![/quote']I'm gonna disagree there. Jockeys are not paid to ride horses (that would be mere Transport Familiarity or at most Riding), they are paid to make racehorses win races. Failure to make a PS: Jockey roll doesn't mean the jockey fell off his horse; it means his horse failed to win even if it was a faster horse. He might even make the roll, but a competing jockey made his roll by a better margin. A crime scene tech may make a successful Criminalistics roll, but that doesn't allow him to simply bypass the rest of the investigation and arrest the perpetrator sight unseen (or CSI would be a pretty dull TV show).

 

We shouldn't assume Familiarities and Skills allow too much; but let's not go overboard and assume failed rolls represent disasters either. Let's not assume that failure means catastrophic failure; it just means the task wasn't accomplished in a satisfactory or timely fashion. A doctor failing his KS: Diseases 13- may not realize his patient has lymphoma; that doesn't mean the patient croaks in the exam room.

[Wanderer]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Having come late to the discussion, I just have to remark that I'm absolutely adverse to waste even one point on buying skills that I cannot see any discernible use for during play, even if it may flesh out the background.

 

So absolutely no trivia skills like KS: 70s movies or KS: rap music, even if they are the fanboy hobby interest of the character, KS with too tight a focus (KS: History is nice, KS: Renaissance France History is not), skills that duplicate the character's powers (having a TF is a waste of points if you have 30" Flight or Running, and so WFs if you have a 12d6 EB or 60 STR), PSs (I do not care to give representation to what the character does to earn a living, even provided he is not a professional adventurer/crimefighter. It is either stuff that he always does offcamera, or it is better represented by buying the corresponding mainstream skills with greater gaming applications, such as SS: Biology and Paramedics for a physician instead of PS: Physician, Electronics and Computer for a computer technician instead of PS: computer technician). On a general note, I'm quite wary of buying AKs, too. If the GM wishes to see this kind of useless trivia skills on the character sheet, he'd better gift me the extra points, or declare them free.

 

Given these limits, generally I'm not adverse on spending a decent amount (say 25-50 points) on skills to better flesh the character out. Provided it makes sense for the character's background (including adventuring/crimefighting experience), however this would also include skills with strong adventuring usefulness like Acrobatics, Breakfall, and Stealth. OTOH, I may prefer and buy the latter as Powers if they come from innate talent or a side effect of powers. I usually do not spend more than 30-50 points of skills because I do not fancy skill-heavy characters much: I may do the occasional magician or power-armored inventor or scientist that gave himself powers, but I totally despise martial artists, weaponmasters, and Batman guys, and do not fancy gadgeteers much.

[Trebuchet]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Having come late to the discussion' date=' I just have to remark that I'm absolutely adverse to waste even one point on buying skills that I cannot see any discernible use for during play, even if it may flesh out the background.[/quote']Diff'rent strokes for different folks.

 

While I'm also adverse to wasting points, in general I don't think fleshing out a character's background, personality, or hobbies is a waste. I feel anything that increases the player's insight into his character can increase the enjoyment he gains roleplaying that character. So if spending a few points to flesh out a PC who has some skills beyond combat and crimefighting tools makes a better character, then the points were emphatically not wasted. OTOH, if they don't help a particular player roleplay his PC, then I'm adverse to mandating points being spent on esoteric skills.

 

I've never felt the points I've spent buying Zl'f Riding and Animal Handler to reflect her hobby of horseback riding were a waste; nor were the points she's spent on idiomatic Norwegian and aircraft piloting. It makes the character seem more "real" to me and that was worth every point I spent. For me, at least, it's not all about the combat.

[Wanderer]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Diff'rent strokes for different folks.

 

While I'm also adverse to wasting points, in general I don't think fleshing out a character's background, personality, or hobbies is a waste. I feel anything that increases the player's insight into his character can increase the enjoyment he gains roleplaying that character. So if spending a few points to flesh out a PC who has some skills beyond combat and crimefighting tools makes a better character, then the points were emphatically not wasted. OTOH, if they don't help a particular player roleplay his PC, then I'm adverse to mandating points being spent on esoteric skills.

 

I've never felt the points I've spent buying Zl'f Riding and Animal Handler to reflect her hobby of horseback riding were a waste; nor were the points she's spent on idiomatic Norwegian and aircraft piloting. It makes the character seem more "real" to me and that was worth every point I spent. For me, at least, it's not all about the combat.

 

It's not all about the combat, but in order to have points expended for, it must have some discernible usefulness in the typical character's adventuring or crimefighting lifestyle. E.g. I'm not adverse to buying KS: History or SS: Biology or KS: World Politics to show that a brick or energy projector superhero is a voracious reader with good general culture. But I must see some reasonable usefulness for it in order to spend points on. And the more narrow or obscure or un-glamorous the focus of the skill, the more I am wary of it.

 

I really do not spend points just to highlight useless background bits like hobbies or pre-adventuring menial jobs or odd interests or obscure native languages. If it's really useful to remind myself or other players of that stuff for better RP purposes, it gets written down in the background section only, if it's really some important bit that is going to see some decent RP about, not some colorful trivia stuff you throw the GM at character creation to show how un-munchkinny you are by giving a character a life or a complex background beyond the kewl powerz stuff.

 

Therefore, with all respect for your differing preferences, IMO Riding, Animal Handling, and Piloting may be useful skills for fantasy or modern action-adventure, but useless trivia unworth of points in superheroics. Likewise for Norwegian, Hungarian, or Zulu, unless the campaign happens to have Norse or Zulu gods as a recurring plot element. If I write it in the background that the character is an ardent fan of classic sci-fi, you can expect me to RP him going at trekkie conventions every so often, but if I buy KS: classic sci-fi, I expect old sci-fi books and movies to be relevant at solving some of of the plot hooks the character faces. Just like a Disadvantage or Limitation that never significantly hinders the character is not worth even a single point, a skill that never significantly helps the character is not worth even a single point.

[OddHat]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

More communication and Transactional versus Narrative Control issues here. If a character like Treb's Zl'f were to show up in one of my games, I'd look at the points he sunk into Animal Handling as a request to have that aspect of the character show up at some point in play; now and then, when it made sense, I'd plan a bit in a scenario accordingly. If another GM wouldn't make such an adjustment, then in his campaign those points could be seen as wasted (though the player may feel otherwise, if he just likes the extra detail); in my campaign, they wouldn't be.

 

The problem of potential "waste" can be handled as simply as saying to the GM "I think my PC should have this skill; if I spend points, will it ever show up in play?" If he says "Probably not", the player can decide if he'll get anything out of having it on the sheet and build accordingly.

 

I try to remember that other GMs don't run things the way that I do; it makes it easier on those rare occasions I get to be a player.

[Trebuchet]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Just like a Disadvantage or Limitation that never significantly hinders the character is not worth even a single point' date=' a skill that never significantly helps the character is not worth even a single point.[/quote']If that's your preference, that's cool. I'm not trying to impose any requirement to buy obscure or "useless" Skills onto other players. I just happen to disagree that points spent to better define the character are not, at least to me, a waste of points. All of her "useless" Skills were purchased with XP, not as background skills. (Nor are her obscure Skills entirely useless - since she's blonde, pretty, and lives in Oslo, she can pass as a native Norwegian quite easily; a useful ability for a superheroine who is proudly and publicly Russian.) YMMV.

[Trebuchet]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

More communication and Transactional versus Narrative Control issues here. If a character like Treb's Zl'f were to show up in one of my games' date=' I'd look at the points he sunk into Animal Handling as a request to have that aspect of the character show up at some point in play; now and then, when it made sense, I'd plan a bit in a scenario accordingly. If another GM wouldn't make such an adjustment, then in his campaign those points could be seen as wasted (though the player may feel otherwise, if he just likes the extra detail); in my campaign, they wouldn't be.[/quote']While I certainly always appreciate attempts by the GM to make "useless" skills useful at some point in the campaign, that wasn't why I purchased them. I bought them solely to add depth to the character. The fact that Mentor once found a way for the Riding Skill Zl'f and another teammate bought to be useful in a scenario was pure gravy.

[OddHat]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

While I certainly always appreciate attempts by the GM to make "useless" skills useful at some point in the campaign' date=' that wasn't why I purchased them. I bought them solely to add depth to the character. The fact that Mentor once found a way for the [i']Riding[/i] Skill Zl'f and another teammate bought to be useful in a scenario was pure gravy.

 

Sure, and understood. That's another aspect of the Transactional vs Narrative Control issue I was discussing earlier. If you look at the mechanics of character design as mainly an exercise in accounting, character points spent that never come up in play can be seen as a waste. If you look at the mechanics themselves as having narrative value, then things like non-optimized stats and skills can have value, even if the only value is that it helps you get a picture in your mind of the character.

 

And I'm glad Mentor found a use for it; color stuff like that is sometimes what makes a character and campaign most memorable.

[Trebuchet]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Sure, and understood. That's another aspect of the Transactional vs Narrative Control issue I was discussing earlier. If you look at the mechanics of character design as mainly an exercise in accounting, character points spent that never come up in play can be seen as a waste. If you look at the mechanics themselves as having narrative value, then things like non-optimized stats and skills can have value, even if the only value is that it helps you get a picture in your mind of the character.

 

And I'm glad Mentor found a use for it; color stuff like that is sometimes what makes a character and campaign most memorable.

It was actually kind of cool what Mentor did. MidGuard was investigating strange occurrences near the site of a meteor impact in Mongolia, and the only way to get to the location was to ride in on horseback. Zl'f and Thunderbird (a Native American) both had Riding. Not only were our surly Mongolian guides more respectful towards Zl'f and Thunderbird because they were expert riders, but all the other characters unknowingly suffered a -2 OCV penalty from being stiff after two days in the saddle.

[Wanderer]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Sure, and understood. That's another aspect of the Transactional vs Narrative Control issue I was discussing earlier. If you look at the mechanics of character design as mainly an exercise in accounting, character points spent that never come up in play can be seen as a waste. If you look at the mechanics themselves as having narrative value, then things like non-optimized stats and skills can have value, even if the only value is that it helps you get a picture in your mind of the character.

 

Judging from experience, I would reply that you can reap the best of both worlds, optimized point accounting and mnemonic reminder for background bits, just by creating TWO character sheets: the official one, which you hand over to the group, and is optimized like a fighter jet with every point counting, and the "expanded" one, where you write down all kinds of non-optimized trivia purchases that are marked down as Everyman stuff and little more than RP mnemonic aids and notes. Just the same way by which sometimes I explictly write down canon Everyman skills as a mnemonic aid, and sometimes I omit them. Fortunately, handy character creation software like HD can make it very easy to produce slightly different versions of the same character, just a couple keystrokes away.

[Trebuchet]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Judging from experience' date=' I would reply that you can reap the best of both worlds, optimized point accounting and mnemonic reminder for background bits, just by creating TWO character sheets: the official one, which you hand over to the group, and is optimized like a fighter jet with every point counting, and the "expanded" one, where you write down all kinds of non-optimized trivia purchases that are marked down as Everyman stuff and little more than RP mnemonic aids and notes. Just the same way by which sometimes I explictly write down canon Everyman skills as a mnemonic aid, and sometimes I omit them. Fortunately, handy character creation software like HD can make it very easy to produce slightly different versions of the same character, just a couple keystrokes away.[/quote']Of course that's one way to do it; though I personally prefer to pay points for Skills and Perks (such as licensed pilot) that my character takes.

 

Another good way is to write a good character background and/or a short story and pass it around. If the GM and other players understand how you see your character, they'll be better able to interact with him in a manner that enhances your concept.

[tesuji]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

interesting... by any chance do you have a rules citation (page number)?

 

hero 5 er

 

skill modifiers pg 45

modifiers apply to familiarities explicitly stated page 43 right before the section on successful skill checks

 

further expanded on in iltimate skill but its core 5er

[Wanderer]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Of course that's one way to do it; though I personally prefer to pay points for Skills and Perks (such as licensed pilot) that my character takes.

 

Ahh, but those aren't Real Skills and Perks in my view, i.e. stuff that I actually use in play. They are just notes for the character background. You don't pay points to make the character have green eyes or talk with a cheerful tone, don't you ? Trivia Skills and Perks are the same kind of thing to me.

 

Another good way is to write a good character background and/or a short story and pass it around. If the GM and other players understand how you see your character, they'll be better able to interact with him in a manner that enhances your concept.

 

No short story. Too artsy to my tastes, and my writing style is too dry to be up to such a task. But I definitely make a point never to consider a character really finished until I've written a good character background. Actually, that's just the finishing part, when I make the effort to weave and justify everything in a coherent, seamless whole. But trivia bits are just that, footnotes and highlights to the written background, not really part of the rest of the sheet. And other gamers are most definitely welcome to read it around the table and keep their own copy. It's just one more printout. Actually, I'd say I often write rather lengthy and detailed backgrounds, and enjoy the intellectual challenge of creating them just as much as I relish the other one of point-optimizing the character. I enjoy tinkering with char sheet and written background both (alas, I'm truly terrible at graphics, so character portraits are really not an option, apart from what Heromachine can do).

 

But I would be quite annoyed if someone would actually ASK me to buy trivia Skills and Perks. To me, it's a basic game balance and fairness issue: if it ain't really useful or hindering, it costs nothing. The principle must work both ways.

[OddHat]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Judging from experience' date=' I would reply that you can reap the best of both worlds, optimized point accounting and mnemonic reminder for background bits, just by creating TWO character sheets: the official one, which you hand over to the group, and is optimized like a fighter jet with every point counting, and the "expanded" one, where you write down all kinds of non-optimized trivia purchases that are marked down as Everyman stuff and little more than RP mnemonic aids and notes. Just the same way by which sometimes I explictly write down canon Everyman skills as a mnemonic aid, and sometimes I omit them. Fortunately, handy character creation software like HD can make it very easy to produce slightly different versions of the same character, just a couple keystrokes away.[/quote']

 

An OK method if that's what you'd like, as is mentioning background bits to your GM that you'd like to see, either face to face or in written form. As a GM I'd consider both.

 

However, in my own games, the player who bothered to put a 2 or 3 point skill on his sheet is considered to have made more of a commitment to that aspect of his character than a player who just mentioned the skill in his background or asked for it as an 8- Everyman skill. I see it as buying control of an aspect of the narrative: The player has asked to invest the points, and if I permit him to do so without explicitly telling him that a given skill/talent/perk/power will not be used in the campaign, I have made a commitment to honor his request for that particular narrative bit to eventually get worked in. If he spent no points, I don't feel obligated to make sure that he gets screen time for that narrative bit (though as the GM I still could do so). And when it finally does come up, if a roll is needed, the character with Riding 15- is certainly going to fare better than the character who just took an 8- Everyman riding skill.

[OddHat]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

But I would be quite annoyed if someone would actually ASK me to buy trivia Skills and Perks. To me, it's a basic game balance and fairness issue: if it ain't really useful or hindering, it costs nothing. The principle must work both ways.

 

To avoid talking past one-another, I'd point out that neither Trebuchet nor I have suggested requiring players to spend points on skills unlikely to come up regularly in play; we've been discussing why a player might, and how a GM might handle it.

[Wanderer]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

To avoid talking past one-another' date=' I'd point out that neither Trebuchet nor I have suggested requiring players to spend points on skills unlikely to come up regularly in play; we've been discussing why a player might, and how a GM might handle it.[/quote']

 

It was quite clear to me, but truly sorry if it sounded confrontational (my "Brash Writing Style", 8- Disadvantage showing up again, I reckon ), it wasn't my intention, I was just making a general comment to no one among the recent thread posters in particular, certainly not you nor Trebuchet, someone may, or may not, have said something similar way upthread. Actually, if I were to see a fellow gamer spending points for IMO useless stuff, I'd just friendly advice against it, b/c IMO bad character design with suboptimal choices too often only leads to frustration, envy, and bad blood down the line.

 

An OK method if that's what you'd like, as is mentioning background bits to your GM that you'd like to see, either face to face or in written form. As a GM I'd consider both.

 

and I do use both.

 

However, in my own games, the player who bothered to put a 2 or 3 point skill on his sheet is considered to have made more of a commitment to that aspect of his character than a player who just mentioned the skill in his background or asked for it as an 8- Everyman skill. I see it as buying control of an aspect of the narrative: The player has asked to invest the points, and if I permit him to do so without explicitly telling him that a given skill/talent/perk/power will not be used in the campaign, I have made a commitment to honor his request for that particular narrative bit to eventually get worked in. If he spent no points, I don't feel obligated to make sure that he gets screen time for that narrative bit (though as the GM I still could do so). And when it finally does come up, if a roll is needed, the character with Riding 15- is certainly going to fare better than the character who just took an 8- Everyman riding skill.

 

All of this is just basic fairness and good GMing As long as you don't make too much of a commitment and strain your GM creativity too much, some trivia are rather difficult to justify this kind of plot spotlight, without going too comedic or weird.

[Trebuchet]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

Ahh' date=' but those aren't Real Skills and Perks in my view, i.e. stuff that I actually use in play. They are just notes for the character background. You don't pay points to make the character have green eyes or talk with a cheerful tone, don't you ? Trivia Skills and Perks are the same kind of thing to me.[/quote']But not to me. I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong; I just prefer a different approach. Everyone prefers slightly different things about their roleplaying. It's really nothing more than a matter of style. Now, admittedly, there are some just plain bad roleplayers out there. I don't think you're one of them, because you obviously give a lot of thought to your characters.

 

No short story. Too artsy to my tastes, and my writing style is too dry to be up to such a task. But I definitely make a point never to consider a character really finished until I've written a good character background. Actually, that's just the finishing part, when I make the effort to weave and justify everything in a coherent, seamless whole. But trivia bits are just that, footnotes and highlights to the written background, not really part of the rest of the sheet. And other gamers are most definitely welcome to read it around the table and keep their own copy. It's just one more printout. Actually, I'd say I often write rather lengthy and detailed backgrounds, and enjoy the intellectual challenge of creating them just as much as I relish the other one of point-optimizing the character. I enjoy tinkering with char sheet and written background both (alas, I'm truly terrible at graphics, so character portraits are really not an option, apart from what Heromachine can do).

Short stories aren't for everyone; although I personally enjoy writing them because I feel they can give me better insight into my characters. But a good character background can accomplish that as well. I do tend towards overkill on my backgrounds; the one for my primary Champions character is almost four pages long.

 

But I would be quite annoyed if someone would actually ASK me to buy trivia Skills and Perks. To me, it's a basic game balance and fairness issue: if it ain't really useful or hindering, it costs nothing. The principle must work both ways.

Absolutely right.

[Wanderer]

Re: How do you encourage your players to buy more skills

 

But not to me. I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong; I just prefer a different approach. Everyone prefers slightly different things about their roleplaying. It's really nothing more than a matter of style. Now, admittedly, there are some just plain bad roleplayers out there. I don't think you're one of them, because you obviously give a lot of thought to your characters.

 

Short stories aren't for everyone; although I personally enjoy writing them because I feel they can give me better insight into my characters. But a good character background can accomplish that as well. I do tend towards overkill on my backgrounds; the one for my primary Champions character is almost four pages long.

 

Absolutely right.

 

Amen to that, amen to that, brother and to your writing skills. Just to make one final general sidenote consideration, in my experience bad roleplayers can be just as easily under-acting rules-lawyer munchkins or over-acting artsy drama-queen real roleplayers. Either breed may favor different games and gaming cliques, but they both most definely burden the hobby.