Team Help: The Pride

[Powerhouse]

"Yup, and that's what I was hoping for. On the other hand, a number of the catwomen he enslaved were pretty heinous villains; mass destruction, multiple murders, etc. I wanted somebody to take the other side of the argument and see how successful they were."

 

For one, that is the realm of the legal system, not this idiot even if he is some kinda of cat god. (BTW, idiot refers to the character, NOT the poster. PLEASE do not misinterpret).

 

Second, mind controling them in some fashion to not committ these acts I don't think necessitates becoming his sex slaves.

 

So, Smildon with the players that I've gamed with would have no problem turning him into kitty litter.

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Powerhouse

"Yup, and that's what I was hoping for. On the other hand, a number of the catwomen he enslaved were pretty heinous villains; mass destruction, multiple murders, etc. I wanted somebody to take the other side of the argument and see how successful they were."

 

For one, that is the realm of the legal system, not this idiot even if he is some kinda of cat god. (BTW, idiot refers to the character, NOT the poster. PLEASE do not misinterpret).

 

Second, mind controling them in some fashion to not committ these acts I don't think necessitates becoming his sex slaves.

 

So, Smildon with the players that I've gamed with would have no problem turning him into kitty litter.

 

There's a long tradition of super-heroes "reforming" villains with mind control (Doc Savage performed brain surgery on them), and a long tradition in four color universes of the police being completely incompetent when it comes to keeping even known killers in jail for more than a few days (any silver age Batman villain). It's the sex slaves thing that makes this character 100% a villain.

[Crimson Arrow]

Can I just double-check something? Did he Mind Control them into not being villains and then because of his sex appeal they were his harem, or is it (as I think is the case), that their participaton in his harem was directly due to Mind Control?

 

I was wondering about this because of that old Marvel villain called Mandrill whose pheromones basically made women his slaves. Now that would be a quandary, if this power could not be turned on and off. The character couldn't help being incredibly attractive to the opposite sex, but the effects could be bad. Even if he were a hero and never did anything about this effect, how traumatic would it be? You'd never know if the person really liked you, or was just another slave to the pheromones. Even someone who took advantage of this might eventually begin to have doubts about him or herself.

 

Was there a female DC character who had a similar effect? Crimson or Scarlet Fox, something like that?

 

Sorry, gone a bit OT. I don't think Mind Controlling people into not committing crimes is particularly heroic (see the "Squadron Supreme" mini-series). It's better than prison (at least it might to the average member of the public), but it has unsavoury connotations.

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Crimson Arrow

Sorry, gone a bit OT. I don't think Mind Controlling people into not committing crimes is particularly heroic (see the "Squadron Supreme" mini-series). It's better than prison (at least it might to the average member of the public), but it has unsavoury connotations.

 

I liked that Squadron Supreme story arc. Very well done (in a four-color with shades of grey kind of way).

 

That said, look at the other side; Is it "heroic" to beat, threaten and bully people into reforming? To warehouse them in prisons where they're subjected to daily brutality and atrocious living conditions? Prisons where they learn to be better criminals? Isn't it more "heroic" to simply free them of the psychological damage and misplaced drives that have turned them into criminals, and let them pay back society for the damage they've done?

 

[Crimson Arrow]

True, prison doesn't sem to work much in terms of reforming criminals. However, it is the legal punishment (which should be important if you are upholding the heroic ideal). Many heroes would have problems with forcibly changing someone's mind permamently, even for ostensibly good reasons.

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Crimson Arrow

True, prison doesn't sem to work much in terms of reforming criminals. However, it is the legal punishment (which should be important if you are upholding the heroic ideal). Many heroes would have problems with forcibly changing someone's mind permamently, even for ostensibly good reasons.

 

Just arguing the other side. Thus the smiley.

 

It all depends on how "realistic" your campaign is and the moral tone you chose to set. Real world morality tends to be a bit more complicated.

[Citizen Keen]

Black Panther for the Metamorph. He could meld with shadows - Desolidification, Teleport through shadows, grow and shrink as a shadow, susceptible to light, etc.

[AnotherSkip]

Hmmm a few suggestions from the past

Chat Noir (V&V published character)

martial artist with Luck powers (black Cat in french)

 

of course you could do a Robo-Cat (many a cartoon)

for most of the open slots.

 

How about Kitten as a Sidekick?

 

of course you caould have Kitty Pride as the backer.....

 

uhhm had one for the mentalist but lost it.

[Dr. Anomaly]

I can't belive no one has suggested "Sabertooth" yet.

 

Make the Weaponsmaster a character who uses a pair of long, curved knives and call him Sabertooth.

[Stephen Mann]

Originally posted by Crimson Arrow

Can I just double-check something? Did he Mind Control them into not being villains and then because of his sex appeal they were his harem, or is it (as I think is the case), that their participaton in his harem was directly due to Mind Control?

 

Right. He performed psychic surgery on them, changing their values and habits, and added "willing and enthusiastic servants of Smilodon, and mothers of the new catpeople race".

 

Sorry, gone a bit OT. I don't think Mind Controlling people into not committing crimes is particularly heroic (see the "Squadron Supreme" mini-series). It's better than prison (at least it might to the average member of the public), but it has unsavoury connotations.

 

Actually, that's debatable. Or, at least, I hope it is. That's why I created my version of The Pride.

[winterhawk]

Thanks for the suggestions, here's what I'm going with:

 

Lioness: Mystic Avatar of Sekhmet.

Siberian: Brick

Snow Leopard: Cold EB

Tomcat: PA

Boots: Toy wielding Gadgeteer.

[Crimson Arrow]

Originally posted by Stephen Mann

Actually, that's debatable. Or, at least, I hope it is. That's why I created my version of The Pride.

 

It certainly is, but note I said "unsavoury connotations", not "wrong".

 

The suggestion is that it is acceptable to alter someone's ways to make them a beneficial member of society instead of a criminal. Leaving aside the question of whether it can ever be justified (which really is open to debate - there isn't a "right" answer IMHO), what do you make someone believe?

 

Should you make them follow Christian values (or cat people ones)? Islam? Scientology? Atheism? Humanism? As soon as you start altering beliefs, values and morals you have to decide what they will do. Does a good member of society only use violence as a last resort? Define "last resort".

 

The unsavoury connotations I was thinking of stem from the fact that there is no entirely right way to behave (there are definitely wrong ones, though) and if you say it's OK to alter some personality traits, where do you stop, assuming some degree of realism (ie you can't just tell people to "stop being bad").

[Crimson Arrow]

Originally posted by winterhawk

Thanks for the suggestions, here's what I'm going with:

 

Lioness: Mystic Avatar of Sekhmet.

Siberian: Brick

Snow Leopard: Cold EB

Tomcat: PA

Boots: Toy wielding Gadgeteer.

 

Sounds like a good mix there, Winterhawk. Thanks for telling us what you went for.

[Siberian Tiger]

Originally posted by Crimson Arrow

Maybe you should ask Siberian Tiger first (haven't seen him post in a while, come to think of it)! Seriously, good choice, as is Tomcat.

 

 

Just to give you a bit of background on the Siberian Tiger that I created for one of my players in my campaign.

 

As a small boy, the South Korean plane in which he was travelling with his parents was shot down over Siberia in my remaking of the 1983 KAL007 incident. His father was a British industrialist working on oil pipelines in the region.

 

When the Soviet authorities found the wreckage of the plane, they discovered that all passengers were dead except for one young boy who had managed to survive the perils of the cold winter night. Suspecting he had metahuman powers, they took him in for training and development - which involved considerable brainwashing. Although he registered as a metahuman, no powers manifested. He was however a very athletic and strong young man, and was trained/brainwashed to become an assassin.

 

His first job was to kill a dissident in London. On returning to his homeland, his memories of his true identity manifested and he sought to escape from the KGB. When confronted by his opponents, he fought long and hard but to little avail against overwhelming odds. Just when it looked as if he was beaten, he somehow produced a shield of ice to protect him and the a ray of cold to paralysis his assailents.

 

He sought sanctuary with the British authorities, revealing what he knew of the Russian superhuman programme. He became a government operative and became well-known in the martial arts world. He keeps his superhuman powers a secret and uses them as a last resort as a final ace in the hole.

 

He later discovered that his father was actually an alien from another planet - using a scenario published in the old Superhero UK and Fantasia magazines - do any Brits remember those publications. If the campaign had continued, he would have discovered that his mutant ice powers came from his mother's bloodline. He would also face his nemesis from a parallel dimension - Snow Leopard.

[Powerhouse]

When someone mentioned the Black cat (in French) with luck powers, I wonder if that was bad luck or good luck. Inflicting bad luck on players, maybe with a wierd VVP, could be fun.

 

 

"I liked that Squadron Supreme story arc. Very well done (in a four-color with shades of grey kind of way)."

 

Great read. I found Power Princess' view interesting. I think she mentioned something about a criminal not having the right to control his or her mind any more. She did a 180 when the Golden Archer used the mind control to make his soon-to-be-ex-girlfriend Lady Lark a slavishly devoted lover.

 

"That said, look at the other side; Is it "heroic" to beat, threaten and bully people into reforming? To warehouse them in prisons where they're subjected to daily brutality and atrocious living conditions? Prisons where they learn to be better criminals? Isn't it more "heroic" to simply free them of the psychological damage and misplaced drives that have turned them into criminals, and let them pay back society for the damage they've done? "

 

Heh... you and Lady Silver would get along great.

 

Anyway, I think that it is heroic to stop a criminal from breaking the law or hurting people. Of course, you need to store them some place where regular people are safe from them and will hopefully be so horrid that they will NEVER want to committ a crime again.

 

As for the alternative, I feel that criminals are evil people who choose to do wrong. They don't have major psychological problems. Those who do, like all of Batman's enemies, might benefit from some psychic surgery to cure them of their insanity.

 

For a normal person however, I would see this type of intrusion as nothing short of mental assault and violation. Where would it end?

 

Edit: btw, I make a distincition between the truly insane and those who choose to commit crimes. The former are slaves to impulses and deranged mental states. The Joker thinks that it's all just a big joke. On the other hand, the latter can make a choice, they just make ones that hurt people and they don't care aboutt he evil of their actions though they know that it will inflict injury.

[st barbara]

Like the idea "Crimson Arrow" ! Could "Rumpleteaser" be some sort of shape shifting seductress, perhaps with mental illusion powers (or even images) ?

[Crimson Arrow]

Originally posted by st barbara

Like the idea "Crimson Arrow" ! Could "Rumpleteaser" be some sort of shape shifting seductress, perhaps with mental illusion powers (or even images) ?

 

Thanks. I felt that some of the names are a bit too wild for most people's tastes, but as I'd had the idea, I thought I'd post it.

 

I think shapeshifting might cross too much with the theatre cat, but perhaps they are really one and the same? You might not want to use Gus, anyway. Perhaps he is a much better actor, has fencing and other skills he's learned from watching plays and has a great Disguise skill/power (perhaps built as Shape Shift), while Rumpleteaser Shape Shifts physically into a suitable form and is high on Seduction and Persuasion. Maybe they work together sometimes on cons.

 

I had Mungo Jerry and Rumpleteaser down as a pair of acrobatic MAs/Thieves, but I didn't give it too much thought (no Jerry Dorsey jokes, thanks). The Illusions power is good and makes for a nicer spread of powers.