Military medals

[Inu]

So from what I've been reading, bronze and silver stars are pretty coveted medals -- not everyone who does something brave gets a bronze star, for instance. What kind of acts would qualify? Basically, I'm playing a character who has military experience in Afghanistan and Iraq, and I'm wanting a medal tally. I'm just not wanting to give her medals she doesn't deserve! So my question is: what kind of acts are required for these medals? And is there a list of recipients and the acts for which they were awarded them? I know this exists for the Medal of Honor, but my google-fu seems to be weak for finding similar things for the lesser medals.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Military medals

 

A Bronze Star isn't that hard to get if you're higher ranking. I've known E6s to get one just for being in Iraq or Afghanistan for a year.

 

All awards have a description of what it takes to earn them, but the unwritten rule is that higher ranks earn higher awards. Besides the Bronze Star thing above, I've seen people denied awards that they should have earned by the description because "Staff Sergeants get Commendation Medals, not Meritorious Service Medals".

 

About the only one that this doesn't hold true for is the Congressional Medal of Honor, and the unwritten rule for that one, more and more, is that if you survived, you didn't earn it.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Military medals

 

About the only one that this doesn't hold true for is the Congressional Medal of Honor, and the unwritten rule for that one, more and more, is that if you survived, you didn't earn it.

This has come up in the Army Times a few times over the last couple of years.

 

I think it's crap. There should not be awards that can only be earned posthumously. It's disgusting and belittles the achievements of those deserving.

 

TB

[Inu]

Re: Military medals

 

A Bronze Star isn't that hard to get if you're higher ranking. I've known E6s to get one just for being in Iraq or Afghanistan for a year.

 

All awards have a description of what it takes to earn them, but the unwritten rule is that higher ranks earn higher awards. Besides the Bronze Star thing above, I've seen people denied awards that they should have earned by the description because "Staff Sergeants get Commendation Medals, not Meritorious Service Medals".

 

About the only one that this doesn't hold true for is the Congressional Medal of Honor, and the unwritten rule for that one, more and more, is that if you survived, you didn't earn it.

The descriptions are there, but they're not real specific. Probably deliberately. But that doesn't help me figure out what's appropriate... I guess what I'm looking for is examples of what people have done to win them. Particularly for valor, rather than meritorious service (in the case of the Bronze Star; I'm aware the Silver Star is only awarded for valor... at least according to wikipedia).

 

Or perhaps I should ask: as a Ranger returning from service in Afghanistan and Iraq, having signed on in 2000, what medals would be appropriate, assuming a high degree of combat relative to most units?

 

In addition, I want the character to be an officer, preferably one who started as Enlisted. Is it feasible for her to have been commissioned already? I'm not sure how rapidly these things can happen. Assuming somewhat exceptional ability (she being a PC). Would combat service help this? Hinder?

 

(From what I'm aware, there currently are no female Ranger officers... or weren't as recent as my information gets, which I admit is no more advanced the GURPS Special Forces. GURPS supplements are normally very well-researched, but it's a tad out of date and it's only a single source. Is that the case? If so, is it due to a specific rule, or simply that none have qualified so far?)

[Sgt_Pedro]

Re: Military medals

 

The descriptions are there, but they're not real specific. Probably deliberately. But that doesn't help me figure out what's appropriate... I guess what I'm looking for is examples of what people have done to win them. Particularly for valor, rather than meritorious service (in the case of the Bronze Star; I'm aware the Silver Star is only awarded for valor... at least according to wikipedia).

 

Or perhaps I should ask: as a Ranger returning from service in Afghanistan and Iraq, having signed on in 2000, what medals would be appropriate, assuming a high degree of combat relative to most units?

 

A Ranger who has seen alot of combat, especially one who is on his way to PC-dom would likely have a Bronze Star with "V" for Valor. Exceptional performance under fire, risking his life to protect fallen comrades are candidates for the two Stars. Silver being under unusual or exceptionally crap circumstances. Cap Obvious' comments about rank getting higher medals is absolutely spot on, it's crap really.

 

EDIT: I missed the signed on in 2000 bit. If you joined Enlisted WITH a degree already, yeah you could be an officer already, assuming acceptance into one of the so called "green to gold" programs.

 

In addition, I want the character to be an officer, preferably one who started as Enlisted. Is it feasible for her to have been commissioned already? I'm not sure how rapidly these things can happen. Assuming somewhat exceptional ability (she being a PC). Would combat service help this? Hinder?[

 

(From what I'm aware, there currently are no female Ranger officers... or weren't as recent as my information gets, which I admit is no more advanced the GURPS Special Forces. GURPS supplements are normally very well-researched, but it's a tad out of date and it's only a single source. Is that the case? If so, is it due to a specific rule, or simply that none have qualified so far?)

 

 

Well first off, a female soldier wouldn't be a Ranger. Females in strictly combat MOS's (Military Occupational Specialties) are still a no-go. As to becoming an officer, the old days of Sergeants getting promoted for ability are gone, you get a degree, then apply for a transition program of some type. Or, some programs let you go to college then come back a Lieutenant. I haven't heard of a battlefield commission since Vietnam, but then I've been out a few years.

[Sgt_Pedro]

Re: Military medals

 

This has come up in the Army Times a few times over the last couple of years.

 

I think it's crap. There should not be awards that can only be earned posthumously. It's disgusting and belittles the achievements of those deserving.

 

TB

 

 

No joke, I read a citation for a Distinguished Service Cross the other day that can't have possibly been anymore BA, and he didn't get a Medal of Honor, I suppose because he lived.

[OctoberRaven]

Re: Military medals

 

As stated above, most standard PCs who are ex-military should be Bronze Star, maybe with a Purple Heart. A high-level game might allow for a feasible Silver Star or higher, again most likely with at least one Purple Heart.

 

A Captain America-level character would probably have almost every medal the US has to offer. He might even be an exception to the rule for the Medal of Honor.

 

So, it really depends on what level you're playing in, but seeing as you posted this in the DC section, I'll say Bronze Star with a Purple Heart is a safe bet.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Military medals

 

Depends on how realistic you are going for. For starters, unless something has changed, there are no women Rangers.

 

The other thing to remember is that there isn't a perfect correlation between medals and deeds. Just because you did something deserving doesn't mean you got a medal for it, and vice versa not everyone who gets a medal did something really deserving. There's some politics, some situational, and some luck involved in who noticed what, in the case of battlefield awards survived combat themselves, bothered to write up a recommendation, and how far up the flag pole it rode to get approved. Medal recommendations can also be downgraded to a lesser award by higher echelons. Also, in more elite units the expectation is higher; members are expected to perform at a level that might be considered "exceptional" and medal worthy in a less elite environment; it takes a bit more to impress someone enough to write up a citation.

 

On the other hand from a comic book / CU perspective you can basically make up anything you like really. The portrayal of the military in the backgrounds of CU characters is laughably off base, so the bar for accuracy in the setting isn't set real high in that regard.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Military medals

 

This will show the various ribbons/medal that war awarded to U.S. Servicemen.

 

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/Ribbons/OrderofPrecedence.htm

 

If you click the link on each individual award/medal, it leads to a page which explains the award/ribbon, and the criteria used to determine when it is awarded to a serviceman.

 

Hope this helps.

[Inu]

Re: Military medals

 

As stated above, most standard PCs who are ex-military should be Bronze Star, maybe with a Purple Heart. A high-level game might allow for a feasible Silver Star or higher, again most likely with at least one Purple Heart.

 

A Captain America-level character would probably have almost every medal the US has to offer. He might even be an exception to the rule for the Medal of Honor.

 

So, it really depends on what level you're playing in, but seeing as you posted this in the DC section, I'll say Bronze Star with a Purple Heart is a safe bet.

That's helpful, thank you. =) Yeah, not a high power level, so bronze star sounds good. not that you need high skills to get a silver star, it's just less likely and... it just feels like the character shouldn't have one yet without being more powerful. Not for real-world reasons, but RPG verisimilitude.

[Inu]

Re: Military medals

 

Depends on how realistic you are going for. For starters, unless something has changed, there are no women Rangers.

 

The other thing to remember is that there isn't a perfect correlation between medals and deeds. Just because you did something deserving doesn't mean you got a medal for it, and vice versa not everyone who gets a medal did something really deserving. There's some politics, some situational, and some luck involved in who noticed what, in the case of battlefield awards survived combat themselves, bothered to write up a recommendation, and how far up the flag pole it rode to get approved. Medal recommendations can also be downgraded to a lesser award by higher echelons. Also, in more elite units the expectation is higher; members are expected to perform at a level that might be considered "exceptional" and medal worthy in a less elite environment; it takes a bit more to impress someone enough to write up a citation.

 

On the other hand from a comic book / CU perspective you can basically make up anything you like really. The portrayal of the military in the backgrounds of CU characters is laughably off base, so the bar for accuracy in the setting isn't set real high in that regard.

Yeah, but I have a higher standard for my own character. ^_- Not that anyone else in the group could call me on it... I just like to get things right myself. And, of course, I take any opportunity to simply learn about things.

[Inu]

Re: Military medals

 

This will show the various ribbons/medal that war awarded to U.S. Servicemen.

 

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/Ribbons/OrderofPrecedence.htm

 

If you click the link on each individual award/medal, it leads to a page which explains the award/ribbon, and the criteria used to determine when it is awarded to a serviceman.

 

Hope this helps.

Well, as I said, I've already seen descriptions of the criteria. However, they're very, very, very vague. As in, while it talks about 'gallantry', and 'exceptional' actions, it doesn't define those terms at all. What I'm really looking for is a page that lists the actual actions (not type of actions, but the actual actions) for which medals have been awarded. I did manage to find a news story about the first woman to have received a silver star; basically, leading a counterattack after her convoy got ambushed. It's that kind of stuff that's useful, since without knowing 'this action is worth a silver star', I'm left going 'well, is that uncommon valor, or is that just what's expected?'

 

Basically, for the Medal of Honor, there are pages that list people who have received them, and the acts they received them for. If there's any equivalent for other medals, I'd be VERY happy to be pointed towards it.

[LordGhee]

Re: Military medals

 

Here is one of the Great stories

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/17/national/17medal.html?ex=1276660800&en=3bd095bc6926bf6a&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

 

a fine example of a silver star award,

 

remember Black Hawk done the two Delta force sargents who repel down to the first downed helo where awarded the CMH

 

Lord Ghee

[LordGhee]

Re: Military medals

 

this artilce dose not tell the story well.

 

 

she lead the conter attack when Her mp ran low on ammo she braved fire to get to the hummer and got ammo . then she cleared the canal with rifle fire and grenade action.

 

LG

[Inu]

Re: Military medals

 

Here is one of the Great stories

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/17/national/17medal.html?ex=1276660800&en=3bd095bc6926bf6a&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

 

a fine example of a silver star award,

 

remember Black Hawk done the two Delta force sargents who repel down to the first downed helo where awarded the CMH

 

Lord Ghee

Yeah, that's the one I found. =) Was pretty cool.

 

And yup, I have a page that has extensive descriptions of MoH winners (such as a field artiller spotter who called fire down on his own position in order to slow a German advance).

 

Anyone have any other stories of how people won the 'lesser' medals? ('Lesser' in quotes 'cause it's only relative.) For Valor, preferably. I understand there were a lot of possibly dodgy awards of the Bronze Star Medal during the Kosovo campaign.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Military medals

 

I guess, like any award... it's "subject to interpretation".

 

What the individual deciding body determines as "deserving", is the basis for the award... subject to the definition laid out before the deciding body.

[Inu]

Re: Military medals

 

I guess, like any award... it's "subject to interpretation".

 

What the individual deciding body determines as "deserving", is the basis for the award... subject to the definition laid out before the deciding body.

If that's the case, it'd end up extremely random, depending on who's making the decision. In the law, for instance, you get many vague descriptions of crimes... but then, you have the body of decisions that get referred back to, in order to get some consistency in charges. If there's a requirement that medals be handed out with some level of consistency, then they'll probably refer to previous medal decisions. If there's no requirement for consistency... a lot of people will feel ripped off. ;

 

Nevertheless, the news article about the silver star winner has given me at least one benchmark. It's useful in that way, when the basic criteria are... well, for a civilian who doesn't know how to interpret that jargon, not particularly useful. ^_-

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Military medals

 

Like I alluded to above...politics, circumstance, level of command, luck, how good the citation write up is, unstated "rules" such as rank appropriateness, posthumous, etc...lots of factors involved. Its not an absolute, 100% equitable, completely fair and balanced process. And, each of the services do it a little differently too.

[Maur]

Re: Military medals

 

This all just keeps reminding me of M*A*S*H in the early seasons with Frank Burns trying to get a purple heart for things like an eggshell fragment in his eye and other things...

[Tim]

Re: Military medals

 

2 of the more famous CMOH winners were Sargent York, and Audie Murphy.

 

York, His unit pinned down by Several Machine Guns snuck forward, killed the machine gun crews, and proceeded to capture over 200 Germans single handed. (WWI)

 

Murphy's unit was subject to a German attack while in the open. He sent the men back to cover and, taking the unit radio, climbed onto a burning US tank to engage the enemy with the commander's MG while calling artillery fire down on his position to stop the attack.

[Steel Legs]

Re: Military medals

 

Interested in how your going to deal with "Can't be a ranger"? Change your world? Put her in different, like, line of work (is that what its called?) and did something combat cause she was in danger?

[Talon65]

Re: Military medals

 

Yeah, circumstances vary a lot and being an officer seems to make it a lot more likely to be awarded. I recall hearing stories about Vietnam in which Navy officers would finagle their way onto river boat patrols just to get combat badges if there was gun fire in the general area.

 

Interested in how your going to deal with "Can't be a ranger"? Change your world? Put her in different' date=' like, line of work (is that what its called?) and did something combat cause she was in danger?[/quote']

 

Maybe you could just make a her a Marine like this one.

 

[Inu]

Re: Military medals

 

Given that the game is based around Stargate canon, (thus being at least a little flexible on the real-world situation) the GM's leaning towards going 'eh, there are women in more areas'. My character'll still be one of the first, and will have to be physically appropriate (tall, strong, enduring, etc -- not an affirmative action case). (Posted this in Dark Champions, since that's the genre for more realistic military action tending towards the semi-heroic.)

 

In any case, in SG-1 and Atlantis, I do seem to recall seeing a couple of women here and there with black berets... are there groups other than rangers (in the US Armed Forces) who wear black berets?

 

For medals, going for the bronze star medal with V, a commendation medal or two and a buncha badges. Story for the Bronze Star is that after her unit crashed in a chopper, she provided cover fire to keep enemy ground forces at bay long enough for the second chopper to come in (with its heavier firepower) and disperse the enemy to pick up the friendlies.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Military medals

 

In any case, in SG-1 and Atlantis, I do seem to recall seeing a couple of women here and there with black berets... are there groups other than rangers (in the US Armed Forces) who wear black berets?

 

For the last several years, the majority of the US Army wears black berets. The Rangers moved to tan because black wasn't special enough any more.

[Steel Legs]

Re: Military medals

 

Maybe you could just make a her a Marine like this one.

 

 

Wow! There's some serious Women's Power there! :thumbup: