Walking the fire

[Maur]

I'm not thoroughly versed in all the rules of 5er, but I have been learning them (and forgetting them) as I've been playing with my current group.

 

I used to play Deadlands (pre-Reloaded, pre-D20 days) and one of the things I liked in it was that while the hit location was random (like Hero), the better one made the shot by (called Getting a Raise, IIRC) the more the player could choose to move the hit away from the location. So, one of the things I was trying to think of is how one might implement a similar system in Hero.

 

Ex: Player rolls to determine hit. On a successful hit rolls to determine location. For every success the hit was made by the player could add or subtract one from the location result to move the shot to another location. Autofire could be handled the same way with each shot having the location based on the hit result for that particular shot.

 

 

Single Shot Example -

Player: OCV - 7

NPC: DCV - 5

 

Player rolls a 9 to hit (4 under a 13-). Gets a result of 13 for the hit location. The player could then choose to move the shot to be anywhere from 9 to 17 (13 - 4 = 9; 13+4=17) with all of the requisite bonuses and penalties for that new location.

 

Rapid Fire Example -

Player: OCV - 7

NPC: DCV - 5

 

Player takes two shots at NPC. First shot hits with a 10. Second shot hits with a 9. Hit location for the first is 15. The second location is a 13. Since the player needed an 11 to hit, he makes the first by 1 and the second by 2. So the first shot can be placed anywhere in the 14 - 16 area. The second shot can go in the 11 - 15 areas.

 

Not sure of a good way to explain Autofire without it taking up pages of text...

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Walking the fire

 

Actually,

 

you've just described the most popular way to handle 'walking' a hit location.

[Vanguard]

Re: Walking the fire

 

The problem with doing it that away is that, like in our current game, the players with insanely high OCV's compared to the insanely low DVC's of the opponents result in "walking the fire" to head locations 99.0% of the time.

 

I mean, how often have you said Ty has like an 18- to hit his target?

and then you roll like a 5. You could walk the fire from a Loc hit of 18 all the way to the center of the face (Loc 4).

[ghost-angel]

Re: Walking the fire

 

If you have access to Dark Champions I suggest checking out Adjustable Hit Locations. Dark Champions p185.

 

It can make for extremely lethal games.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Walking the fire

 

The differences in damage wiht hit locations in Hero is pretty extreme, and you have to be aware of that if you are going to allow, in effect, substantial headshottage. Mind you that is not the biggest problem - at least the head is at the end of the roll spectrum - but the vitals are dangerously clsoe to the middle and almost as effective as a head shot at taking a target down.

 

If you want the effect that a more skilled combatant can do more damage (and bear in mind that Hero seperates damage rolls and 'hit' rolls for a reason) then you might want to look at a system of basing damag eont he roll you achieve, and assuming high damage has hit something vital. This does not work so well with, for instance, the current disabling rules, butt hat is easily adaptable.

 

Here is one way of doing that - you will find attached a file that gives you a table. Roll to hit normally, then, if you hit, compare the actual roll you made (without modification) to the damage table. Read across and that is the damage you do. The best damage is acheived if you roll close to the number that you need to hit. That means (unlike some other approaches) that you need to be both skillful AND lucky to acheive your maximum damage potential. For example if you hit with a roll of 13 using an 8DC atatck you would do 35 Stun and 12 Body, whereas if you had hit with a roll of 8 you would only be doing 21 Stun and 7 Body. The logic is that almost anyone can hit with an 8, whereas only someone quite skilled can hit with a 13.

[Maur]

Re: Walking the fire

 

The difference in damage for hit locations in Deadlands was extreme as well, but one could, with enough Raises, move a shot from the foot to the head if one wanted. Of course, turnabout was fairplay. The GM NPCs also had this ability, so having a good dodge ability was very useful.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Walking the fire

 

The difference in damage for hit locations in Deadlands was extreme as well' date=' but one could, with enough Raises, move a shot from the foot to the head if one wanted. Of course, turnabout was fairplay. The GM NPCs also had this ability, so having a good dodge ability was very useful.[/quote']

 

Yes, but IIRC, Deadlands gave you a raise for every 5 points over the target number, and being able to shift your hit location about was by no means inevitable as a result. Moreover an awful lot of Deadlands characters were able to come back from death. What we are talking about here makes getting a big hit location shift pretty likely, and combat very deadly. Personally I reckon that if you want to play the sort of game where 'real combat is deadly, it should be in the game' then you want to play a game where most of the time characters are crouched behind cover, there are few if any cinematic elements, and a bullet wound is going to mean you having to go to hospital.

 

Generally real people avoid dying by either avoiding gunplay at all, wearing very heavy armour, or, like I say, staying behind cover, calling for backup, and hoping ther other guy's nerve goes first. That would make for a realistic but not terribly interesting game IMO.

[casualplayer]

Re: Walking the fire

 

This works fine in Heroic level, where CVs range much more narrowly, but if you used it in Superheroic combined with Hit Location Modifiers a whole lot of Bricks are going to get shot in the head and hurt really badly.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Walking the fire

 

This works fine in Heroic level' date=' where CVs range much more narrowly, but if you used it in Superheroic combined with Hit Location Modifiers a whole lot of Bricks are going to get shot in the head and hurt really badly.[/quote']

 

Maybe. You apply the BODYx after Defenses, Bricks are probably the only safe ones.

 

You will get a lot of Stunned Bricks probably, since the STUNx is before Defenses.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Walking the fire

 

Maybe. You apply the BODYx after Defenses, Bricks are probably the only safe ones.

 

You will get a lot of Stunned Bricks probably, since the STUNx is before Defenses.

 

Would now be a good time to have an argument about whether killing atatcks need to be rebalanced/abolished/sorted out?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Walking the fire

 

Would now be a good time to have an argument about whether killing atatcks need to be rebalanced/abolished/sorted out?

 

Go ahead, I won't be in that conversation. I've never had a problem in play with Killing Attacks, and I tend not to fix things that have never shown playability issues.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Walking the fire

 

Go ahead' date=' I won't be in that conversation. I've never had a problem in play with Killing Attacks, and I tend not to fix things that have never shown playability issues.[/quote']

 

 

But fixing things that aren't broken is the HERO way!

[casualplayer]

Re: Walking the fire

 

Maybe. You apply the BODYx after Defenses, Bricks are probably the only safe ones.

 

You will get a lot of Stunned Bricks probably, since the STUNx is before Defenses.

 

4 out of 5 Bricks would rather bleed out than get Knocked Out.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Walking the fire

 

4 out of 5 Bricks would rather bleed out than get Knocked Out.

 

It would certainly be a novelty.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Walking the fire

 

But fixing things that aren't broken is the HERO way!

 

What?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Walking the fire

 

But fixing things that aren't broken is the HERO way!

 

Sean Waters' battle cry I believe.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Walking the fire

 

Sean Waters' battle cry I believe.

 

[Maur]

Re: Walking the fire

 

Yes' date=' but IIRC, Deadlands gave you a raise for every 5 points over the target number, and being able to shift your hit location about was by no means inevitable as a result.[/quote']

 

Hmm... well could change it up from every 1 to every 2 or 3 as that would reduce the movement of the hit locations.