New to HERO/Discussion Board

[Khelendros]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

So how would you all fix that character so it's not made wrong? By the way I'm appreciate all the aid I"m getting and want to thank you now and for the future. I mean really I could just take away the stat gains that the suit gives and the only in hero id from what I understand..but what else?

[Khelendros]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

Also can someone explain to me flash group sight. Should I keep it on force field or off?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

So how would you all fix that character so it's not made wrong? By the way I'm appreciate all the aid I"m getting and want to thank you now and for the future. I mean really I could just take away the stat gains that the suit gives and the only in hero id from what I understand..but what else?

 

When Sean said that the character was leveraged, he means that you have taken some disadvantages etc that could be seen as not worth the savings. He is saying that your character, with the powers available should probably cost more points and you might have to scale back a bit.

 

One of the oldest Hero System adages is that if a disadvantage does not disadvantage the character then it is worth no points, regardless of what the book says.

 

One point in case here would be the linked disadvantage that you have placed on all of your bought characteristics. What disadvantage does the character have by the characteristics being linked to the armour? You have already bought the characteristics with IIF and OIHID (two disadvantages which are often interchangeable) and so the linked gives no added disadvantage to the characteristic powers.

 

If I were your GM I would have you remove either the linked disadvantage or the IIF and OIHID disadvantages from your characteristics.

 

As Sean pointed out, you have also tagged expendable onto your focus limitation. That means that when you activate your spirit armour, that small sliver you have as your focus is used up to generate the power - when you switch off the spirit armour then you have no more focus and cannot use the power again until you switch it off. And you have indicated to the GM that it should be extremely difficult to get any more of the focus.

 

As written, in my game you would get one combat and then you would find your character was effectively a sidekick to the rest of the group until you could get a ready supply of your focus again.

 

I would also have issues with the elemental control. First, if I recall correctly, you should have only powers that cost END in there but you have your armour. Second, powers that cost END have visible as a default condition but you have taken it as an additional limitation on every power and the control cost. I would stirke off your visible limitation.

 

As GM I would also be looking at the campaign limits for defences as far as Hugo is concerned. As far as I can see, for a one off payment of 5 endurance points Hugo can have 40PD and 44ED. Now if Hugo was fighting a clone he would be averaging 42 STUN with his main attack power. So, on average would achieve no damage to himself (ED 44 is higher).

 

If campaign attacks average around 12-14 dice then Hugo is very resistant to damage of the normal varieties and even has a small defence against the unusual ones as well. This might concern me, it might not - it would depend on the campaign context.

 

My other concern would be the lack of a developed skill set. It might be the campaign will not dwell on skills etc and so this will not be a problem for your GM but I would be looking for at least 5-6 broad skills/contacts/favours to give the character another dimension.

 

So. If you followed all of what I said then your character will cost lots more points that it currently does and you might have to think about where your priorities for the character are.

 

Ultimately it will be for your GM to decide that the character fits the way things are designed in his campaign or it does not. That's where the real rules are applied.

 

 

Doc

[Khelendros]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

I didn't know the focus was used up but just was hard to know about and get to. Looks like my first attempt at a character was a big bust :-(. I'll make a new on and post it up and see if it's better and ton him way down.

[robertep]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

Well it seems I got beat to the punch by Democracy Wallace over there( Points up two posts) but I will try to help on the next try

[Khelendros]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

if i put flash defense sight on my ff what does that do for me?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

I didn't know the focus was used up but just was hard to know about and get to. Looks like my first attempt at a character was a big bust :-(. I'll make a new on and post it up and see if it's better and ton him way down.

 

Dont be hard on yourself - it was a good exploration of the rules and more complex than any of the first characters I tried with Hero! There are lots of pitfalls with the system because it doesn't constrain your choices for you.

 

I think that you have a good concept there and it is workable but you want to design him with reference to the GMs campaign settings. Find out what the average damage should be and the maximum. Find out what light, average and heavy defences would be, what a high CV would be etc. Once you have those you can benchmark your character and if you are hitting all of the high end bits then you know you are going wrong somewhere - no-one should be at the high end of everything.

 

 

Doc

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

if i put flash defense sight on my ff what does that do for me?

 

There is a power called Flash which disables a particular sense of an opponent for a period of time. So Flash - sight would blind an opponent for a period, flash defence would reduce the time for which that opponent was blinded up to and including completely protecting him from the flash.

 

 

Doc

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

I didn't know the focus was used up but just was hard to know about and get to. Looks like my first attempt at a character was a big bust :-(. I'll make a new on and post it up and see if it's better and ton him way down.

 

If you want I can put him in the HD vault so that people without HD can look and comment.

 

 

Doc

[Khelendros]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

I've almost got a new toned down version of the guy that I will be posting soon. I think I've fixed him according to the rules now.

[Khelendros]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

Okay, I have him finished but how do I make it so the hero ID is an instant change? Kinda like The Green Lantern?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

Okay' date=' I have him finished but how do I make it so the hero ID is an instant change? Kinda like The Green Lantern?[/quote']

 

If you do have instant change then you shouldn't really put OIHID as a limitation as it takes away much of the real limitation of that particular limitation....

 

If that is OK then it is essentially, under the current edition, a cosmetic transform. In previous editions there was a stand-alone power called instant change that cost (IIRC) 5 points or so.

 

 

Doc

[robertep]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

Look at the top sidebar on page 238 FReD

 

Basically its a 2D6 Cosmetic Transform(One set of clothing into one costume and vise versa)

 

 

 

Edit:And yet again i was beaten to the punch :-)

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

Look at the top sidebar on page 238 FReD

 

Basically its a 2D6 Cosmetic Transform(One set of clothing into one costume and vise versa)

 

 

 

Edit:And yet again i was beaten to the punch :-)

 

You get the impression that I'm at home with nothing better to do today?!

 

 

Doc

[Khelendros]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

LOL i'm off work again today also..just fixing hugo and reading up more on HERO while I chat online

[Khelendros]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

New attempted at Hugo.

 

 

for some reason I can't get the link to show it still. Not sure what I'm doing wrong and I put him up on HeroCentral.

 

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

New attempted at Hugo.

 

 

for some reason I can't get the link to show it still. Not sure what I'm doing wrong and I put him up on HeroCentral.

 

I put the last one into the vault in the support site for Hero Designer and then you use the format:

 

[ hd=ID]name[/hd ]

 

(obviously losing the spaces inside the square brackets)

ID is the number you get when you upload the character

name is whatever you want the link to read - often the name of the character.

 

Doc

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

I have uploaded the new version - available now:

 

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

If you do have instant change then you shouldn't really put OIHID as a limitation as it takes away much of the real limitation of that particular limitation....

 

I don't necessarily agree with this. There must be some limitation to OIHID, but it is possible an instant change which is otherwise restricted could meet that criteria.

 

Billy Batson changes to Captain Marvel instantly, but if he can't say the magic word, he can't change. Rick Jones needs to slam the NegaBands together to change to Captain Mar-Vell, pretty much instant but he has to be free to move and actually have the NegaBands. Those are both OIHID.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

New attempted at Hugo.

 

 

for some reason I can't get the link to show it still. Not sure what I'm doing wrong and I put him up on HeroCentral.

 

 

Sean?

 

You want to have another look - I think we were harsh! This one isn't leveraged enough!!

 

Jeffrey, I reckon you've been too careful this time and not used some of the more common things Hero players are used to. It is rare for so much to be spent on STUN/END and SPD when DEX and REC are so low.

 

Some people reckon it is metagaming and munchkinny to maximise the points but I would be recommending to you to bumpy you CON to 23, reduce your spending on figured characteristics and use those savings to do something else, like bumping your DEX to 17 (and recouping some costs in figured SPD). That is two points more expensive but you gain 1 CV and are more resistant to being stunned.

 

Doc

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

I don't necessarily agree with this. There must be some limitation to OIHID, but it is possible an instant change which is otherwise restricted could meet that criteria.

 

Billy Batson changes to Captain Marvel instantly, but if he can't say the magic word, he can't change. Rick Jones needs to slam the NegaBands together to change to Captain Mar-Vell, pretty much instant but he has to be free to move and actually have the NegaBands. Those are both OIHID.

 

It does depend on the instant change used. In all of those examples I can prevent the change if I know about it - obvious limitation.

 

Hugo Williams just wills the change to occur.

 

So I agree with you but as a GM I wouls ask you to argue your case for having OIHID and instant change.

 

I could be convinced to allow OIHID at +1/4 with instant change - there are some limitations in not readily having access to your powers - specially if you have secret identity as well.

 

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

I put the last one into the vault in the support site for Hero Designer and then you use the format:

 

[ hd=ID]name[/hd ]

 

(obviously losing the spaces inside the square brackets)

ID is the number you get when you upload the character

name is whatever you want the link to read - often the name of the character.

 

Doc

 

Well, I've learned something new today

 

Thanks!

 

Just like to apologise to Khelendros if my earlier comments were at all offensive - I did not mean to discourage your creativity, just rein in some of the excessive enthusiams. I love Hero Designer, but it can encourage some quite complex builds, which are not always necessary.

 

Ultimately the trick is to have a playable character who is not going to fall over at the first sign of trouble, is not going to knock over all the opposition without working up a sweat and is a useful team member.

 

As Doc says (democracy and tact - his talents are endless!) no need to be undereffectvie. The concept is nice and sound, we may just need a little polish!

 

Here's how I'd go with it - you amy, of course, think otherwise

 

1. I'd get rid of the 'instant change' - your force field sfx can look like a shiny blue white skin if you like, no real need to pay points for it.

 

2. You have 'visible' as a limitation on the flight and healing - both are visible anyway.

 

3. You have rapid healing which is probably not necessary as you can heal yourself as well as others.

 

4. The attack power is not that useful - you'll do 8 stun to most characters. I'd be inclined to either make it a straight 12d6 EB (as it is in an EC anyway) or even a NND - you won;t be able to affect everyone, but the character is not directly combat oriented anyway.

 

5. The healing has an 'extra time' limitation that is only appropriate for the specific 'regeneration' build.

 

6. The force field has 'affects desolid' - the only effect fo thsi is that desolid beings could nto pass through you.

 

7. Your defences and characteristics are such that you will be stunned a lot. Add CON+PD/ED+Other defences to work out how much damage will stu you - in your case that is 37 points. In a 12d6 game you should be around 42+ or you will be spending a LOT of time stunned.

 

8. Your SPD is 4. This may be perfect for your game but a lot of superhero games often use higher speeds.

 

9. Your DEX is 15, which is going to mean that you haev a job hitting a lot of thisngs - even for a mainly 'support' character this can be a problem.

 

10. Your BODY is quite high given that you can heal yourself (not a criticism, just a place you can shave points).

 

I've reworked the character a little - please do not think that I'm saying my take on it is in any way superior to yours - it is just this is how I'd build it for a 'standard' 250 point superhero game.

 

I've implemented most of the changes I mention above, and I've made the EC require 1/2 DCV concentration - in practice your FF and Flight, once activated, won't suffer for this - but your EB and healing will - it makes you less frontline but still pretty effective.

 

Your FF is a bit tougher and I've put flash defence back in ( you could remove this and either up power defence and mental defence, or up your PD and ED).

 

I've messed with the healing a lot - it is back to no range, but much more effective - you can heal (once per turn) yourself and others for (on average) +7 STUN and +2 BODY.

 

Like I say, NOT a superior build - just a different take ont he basic character you may like to consider.

 

Can I also mention in closing that I really liked your backstory and the disadvantages are nicely thought out and hang well together.

 

Can I also mention that you dealt with my (rather judgemental I admit I was thinking 'munchkin' and also that i was clearly wrong) criticism with good grace and treated the whole thing as a learning experience, which I think is a very admirable trait. Welcome to Hero and I hope you stay

 

[gojira]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

As a GM, I'd say that instant change applies to things besides your powers.

 

So if you are surrounded by a glowing light when you activate your powers, that's just SFX and you don't have to pay any points.

 

If you can instantly change your street clothes into your costume, that's a power that could be used to help protect your Secret ID disadvantage. That's Instant Change, and worth at least a few points.

 

The first character was kinda munchkiny. The second one probably isn't munchkiny enough. Overall, for the second one, I think I'd drop his stats when not in Hero ID (powers not activated) to much more normal (even STR 8 and such) to save a few points, then boost up his defenses a tad with the extra points.

 

EDIT: Crossed posts with Sean above. Similar ideas though.

 

I'd also remove the Instant Change just to save points, unless the player really wants it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

Both Sean and Doc have mentioned it, but I would stress that you need to go over the character with your GM. We make a lot of assumptions about the power level in the game when we review a character. Often, something that would fit perfectly in my game is overpowered, or underpowered, for someone else's game.

 

You should also note that it is rare for a Super to have DEX or CON below about 20. This is counterintuitive, as this is the top of "normal human characteristics maximum", but is simply the way the game has evolved. I'd say a typical Super has DEX 23, CON 23 and a character with an 18 or 20 is viewed as exceptionally low in the applicable stat.

 

The other primary stats tend to be much more commonly encountered in "normal human" ranges of 8 - 20.

 

Supers also tend to cluster around 5 SPD, with 6 fairly common, 4 and 7 pretty rare, below 4 almost never and above 7 depending on the specific game.

 

Oh yes - and rep to Doc and Sean for helping out the new guy!

[Khelendros]

Re: New to HERO/Discussion Board

 

Sorry everyone I was out for lunch. I read all the posts and I just want to say that no one's comments have been offensive or to harsh to me. This is my first character with a brand new system so it's only natural I'll make mistakes to be fixed by all of you lol. So in turn I want to say thank you for ALL the posts so far. I wanted the instant change to be there so that I could protect my secret ID but didn't know I was using it wrong. Here is how I was trying to do it. When he is in "HERO mode" he looks like the Silver Surfer but when he starts using his powers like his force field, flight, and his elemental blast then the skin takes a glowing affect. Not a huge glow but more like a halo of energy. So how do I do that or is it just that is flavor and I just say that happens? If thats the case then all right lol less work for me to figure it out. Also, since I don't have any Super stats is that a disadvantage? The Normal Stats thing?

 

 

Thanks for helping fix my character everyone. To be honest I didn't realize I was munching the guy at all just trying to be to...

 

 

 

So if you could make his different what would you do? Just lessen his powers and raise his stats? I could knock off the Elemental blast and raise his physicals or something.

 

Last question. The healing. Can I use it more than once on someone if it's not regeneration now? When I was reading it was saying you can only heal someone once....well it didn't say that but made it sound like that.