Hero threads on rpg.net

[MitchellS]

Re: Hero threads on rpg.net

 

To the math issue, I would suggest that the detractors start it by saying "you need a degree in higher math", the supporters continue it by saying "did you drop out of elementary school? this is no tougher than 5th grade math" and so on.

 

The real answer from either side likely should be "The hero character creation process requires a significant degree of elementary math. Some players don't want to spend the time to do the math, or invest in available software to do it for them."

 

To me, however, the work required to do the math isn't greater than the work required to map out a D&D character's progress from 1st to 12th level through feat chains, skill requirements, classes, multiclasses and prestige classes, stat bonuses, etc. covering a dozen or so different books to min/max the character. And a lot of the "hero math is excessive" detractors have no problem with the time they spend doing exactly that.

In general I agree with you 100%. I think part of the problem with many Hero players is that they've gotten thin-skinned over the years. Just because some jerk states some hyperbole about the math doesn't mean that a Hero fan needs to jump up and down and tell him he's stupid for not being able to do it. Most perceived insults would completely disappear if gone unanswered.

 

Hero's going to sink or swim on it's own merits once the person buys it and decides for themselves if it has too much math, etc. Hero doesn't need staunch defenders who only make all Hero System fans look like fanatics to the outside community. Be fanatic here. Out there act poised. I think that would give Hero a better image to the outsiders.

[Alibear]

Re: Hero threads on rpg.net

 

What I tend to see in fantasy literature is a character who is badly injured after a crucial encounter' date=' not an entire group laid up for bed rest after a bar room brawl. That is, characters who take significant BOD do so only at critical story junctures.[/quote']

 

When barroom brawls do degenerate into violence with the intent to maim or kill then perhaps the whole party might end up in bed recovering but it hasn't happened in my game yet. Perhaps because the pc's generally bring a lot more hardware to a fight. Be that armour, martial arts, magic or better weaponary. (more points too generally)

 

 

I would also suggest most fantasy literature and movies have a much lower "encounter density" than the typical game. That is, the typical game has vastly more incidents of combat than the typical fantasy book/movie.

 

My games would have 1 small encounter and one larger more deadly fight game session ending encounter, typically.

 

 

So, to the realism of damage from a beating, how badly injured was this magician at the end of the scenario? Realistically, he should have taken 1 or 2 BOD, at least, from each severe beating, right?

 

 

As by the end of the scenario most characters were badly in need of bed rest (hospitilisation) i waved a months recovery time away. I ruled that he had lost half of his 10 body. I got the idea from Yojimbo by the way.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Hero threads on rpg.net

 

In general I agree with you 100%. I think part of the problem with many Hero players is that they've gotten thin-skinned over the years. Just because some jerk states some hyperbole about the math doesn't mean that a Hero fan needs to jump up and down and tell him he's stupid for not being able to do it. Most perceived insults would completely disappear if gone unanswered.

 

I don't think thin-skinned Hero players are the only problem, nor do I think correcting a misperception is wrong. I have seen many posts on these boards by yourself where you correct misconceptions regarding Mutants & Masterminds, often issues that changed between first and second edition. Should you have left those items unchallenged? I feel better informed because you challenged them.

 

Hero's going to sink or swim on it's own merits once the person buys it and decides for themselves if it has too much math' date=' etc. Hero doesn't need staunch defenders who only make all Hero System fans look like fanatics to the outside community. Be fanatic here. Out there act poised. I think that would give Hero a better image to the outsiders.[/quote']

 

A purchaser with a high school education who thinks the math requires college level calculus isn't going to buy it and decide for themselves. The phrasing of the correction may be inappropriate. The correction itself is not. I also find people tend to react at the same level as the original act, so the poster who says "Hero math is hugely complex - don't even try" I'm not sure why it's surprising they get told "I learned everything I needed for Hero in the fifth grade - did you not progress that far?" The fact is, by saying "I can't do the Hero math" [instead of "I don't want to bother doing all the math - it's simple but there's a lot of it"] the poster invites the question of what level of education he has fallen short of based on his inability to do Hero math.

 

If I complained that D&D has too many books and I don't want to read all the big words, do you think that would be answered politely, or that my literacy would be questioned?

 

I don't believe that the Hero detractors are any less deserving of your spirited support than the supporters who challenge their math skills, but neither do I consider them any more deserving.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Hero threads on rpg.net

 

For the record, I did not insult anyone's intelligence, or accuse anyone of laziness. I merely corrected an incorrect statement.

 

The fact is that HERO uses nothing more advanced than 5th-grade math. As a rough estimate, I'd say that if you got an A in 5th-grade math, or at least a B in 6th-grade math, or at least a C in 7th-grade math, or at least a D in 8th-grade math, then the math in HERO will not be too hard for you.

 

Now if someone says, "The math in HERO is not hard, but I don't feel like doing it," I have no problem with that statement. I might point out, however, there there are plenty of solutions to this problem, other than playing a different (inferior ) system:

 

- A simple, four-function calculator (or calculator computer application) will do most of the math for you.

- HERO Designer, as others have pointed out, will do all the math for you (assuming you have a PC to run it on - Is there a Mac version available yet? ).

- Let someone else, such as the GM, build the character for you, or use a character out of one of the books. Remember that all this math is only done at character creation time. During actual play, there's much less math (probably as much as other games), and it's even easier (about 2nd or 3rd grade).

- Many sourcebooks are available with pre-generated Powers, Perks, Skills, that you can use as-is, without having to do any math. USPD (1 & 2), FHG (1 & 2), etc.

 

On the topic of realistic defenses, I'd say the problem isn't so much one of damage relative to defenses, but of different sources of damage relative to each other. All RPGs have to greatly simplify real-world physics in order to be playable at all. In HERO, the given rules have a 8" fall, a normal guy (10 STR) with a baseball bat (+6d6 HA), and a punch from a guy with 40 STR (able to lift >6 tons), do equivalent damage. IMO, that's the part that may be unrealistic, not the 8 PD.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Hero threads on rpg.net

 

- HERO Designer' date=' as others have pointed out, will do all the math for you (assuming you have a PC to run it on - Is there a Mac version available yet? ).[/quote']

 

Hero Designer is and has always been Java Based.

 

It doesn't care what your OS is, only that you have Java installed. Java is available for every major OS in existence.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Hero threads on rpg.net

 

Why do people always want to bring this up as if it's a question of intellect or education? It's not a question of being unable to do the math. It's a question of not wanting to do that much math. Some people don't want to add, subtract, multiply, divide, and multiply & divide fractions to make a character. Not wanting to do it doesn't make people stupid or uneducated. It just means they're rather prioritize their time with some other aspect of character creation.

 

I

 

 

This probably comes up so often because of so many critics of HERO who claim its actually too hard for them to understand rather than just too much trouble. There was a thread awhile back on these boards where a poster was saying his wife was a corporate attorney and couldn't understand HERO not that she didn't want to bother or didn't find it fun.. As long as the anti Hero types use this card you;ll get this response.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Hero threads on rpg.net

 

Hero Designer is and has always been Java Based.

 

It doesn't care what your OS is, only that you have Java installed. Java is available for every major OS in existence.

Holy crap! Boy do I feel stupid!

[Korvar]

Re: Hero threads on rpg.net

 

Bah. Hero only takes Maths if you're designing your own powers. Creating a Heroic-level character is no more complex than making a D&D character. If you're designing your own powers it's more complicated, but then you're designing your own powers.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Hero threads on rpg.net

 

 

It doesn't care what your OS is, only that you have Java installed. Java is available for every major OS in existence.

 

Yeah, I run a linux box in addition to my XP, and I've got Hero designer there too.