Virtually impervious to pain?

[Demonsong]

How do you simulate a being that is virtually impervious to pain?

 

There are a couple options that I can come up with right off the top of my head but don't know which way to go. And hope fully one of you might have an even better idea.

 

1-Simply increases PD and ED to high level, say 40 (or 50); and buy the last 20 (or 30) points at -1/2 Stun Only.

 

2-Damage Reduction PD and ED 75%, -1/2 Stun Only. I don't know if I would make this resistant or not.

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks

[OddHat]

Either of the methods you mentioned would work, as would a very high CON. Put the CON high enough compared to BOD and he'll die before he gets stunned or passes out.

[Killer Shrike]

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=103398#Machine

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=103398#Machine

 

That seems a rather expensive solution. It does work, though, and unlike buying defensive Powers has the advantage that it cannot be gotten around. NND's won't help, hitting him with an attack against his lower defenses won't do any good because he has so much Stun, and so on. Probably an ideal solution excapt for the price.

[Chris Goodwin]

I'd say buy extra CON. I once bought extra CON with a Limitation Only Vs. Being Stunned, to represent a high pain resistance, but the Limitation is not absolutely necessary.

[yamamura]

Of course if you want to be daring and bend the rules a little, allow the character to take cannot be stunned (15 pts). I know the book says only for automaton, but I have run a campaignh with a person playing an android with this and didn't feel it was to unbalancing.

 

G

[DoItHTH]

Hmmm maybe something creative with a Force Wall can be used. Any attack not destroying the wall means no STUN.

 

Basically, he can "brace for an attack" thus not feeling it by using a force wall that surrounds him (minimum 2"). It can be bought to move with him for when he wants to move while showing his immunity to harm.

 

Disadvantages...

1) Either must use some form of indirect attack to fight or must drop his force wall.

 

2) If the Force Wall goes down he wont have much defense left.

 

A different possibility would be Desolidifcation with appropriate limitations and attacks bought to affect real world. SFX of the desolid would be that the attacks dont affect him.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by GamePhil That seems a rather expensive solution. It does work, though, and unlike buying defensive Powers has the advantage that it cannot be gotten around. NND's won't help, hitting him with an attack against his lower defenses won't do any good because he has so much Stun, and so on. Probably an ideal solution excapt for the price.

Ya. Fortunately as an NPC quasi-villain, "price is no object" :DHere's a scaled down version thats more within PC limits. Just swap the back story and you are in the ball park:

Combat Information Page Character Name: Tenacious Alternate Identities: Jonathan Brinks Player Name: CHARACTERISTICS CHARACTER IMAGE Val Char Base Points Total Roll Notes 30 STR 10 20 30 15- HTH Damage 6d6 END [3] 25 DEX 10 45 25 14- OCV 8 DCV 8 50 CON 10 80 50 19- 20 BODY 10 20 20 13- 10 INT 10 0 10 11- PER Roll 11- 13 EGO 10 6 13 12- ECV: 4 13 PRE 10 3 13 12- PRE Attack: 2 1/2d6 14 COM 10 2 14 12-                             10 PD 6 4 10   10 PD (10 rPD) 10 ED 10 0 10   10 ED (10 rED) 4 SPD 3.5 5 4   Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12 15 REC 16 -2 15   100 END 100 0 100   100 STUN 60 40 100     6" Running 6 0 6"     2" Swimming 2 0 2"     6"/3"" Leaping 6 0 6" 223 Total Characteristics Points EXPERIENCE POINTS Total earned: 0 Spent: 0 Unspent: 0 Base Points: 200 Disad Points: 150 Total Points: 350 MOVEMENT Type Total Run (6) 6" [12" NC] Swim (2) 2" [4" NC] H. Leap (6") 6" V. Leap (3") 3" APPEARANCE Hair Color:  Blonde Eye Color:  Ice Blue Height:  5' 10" Weight:  190 lbs Description: Jonathan looks a lot like his father, without all the battering. He is wiry and rugged with an impressive physique. He has blonde hair cut short, and the same icy blue eyes of his father. He wears t-shirts and jeans or cargo pants with leather boots usually.

MARTIAL ARTS MANEUVERS Cost  Maneuver All Out Attack Scrapping 5 1) Roundhouse Kick: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, -2 DCV, STR +5d6 Strike 3 2) Leg Scoop: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, -1 DCV, STR +2d6 Strike, Target Falls 4 3) Slap the Weapon: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, -2 DCV, Disarm, +15 STR to Disarm roll 3 4) Body Check: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +1d6 Strike; You Fall, Target Falls 4 5) Flying Body Check: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, -2 DCV, STR +1d6 +v/5; FMove 4 6) +1 HTH Damage Class(es) 23 Total Martial Arts Cost DEFENSES Type Amount Notes Physical Defense 10 Current BODY: Res. Phys. Defense 10   Energy Defense 10 Current END: Res. Energy Defense 10   Mental Defense 0 Current STUN: Power Defense 0   COMBAT INFORMATION OCV: 8 DCV: 8   Combat Skill Levels: COMBAT MANEUVERS Maneuver Phase OCV DCV Effect Block 1/2 +0 +0 Block, abort Brace 0 +2 1/2 +2 vs. Range Mod. Disarm 1/2 -2 +0 Can disarm Dodge 1/2 -- +3 Abort, vs. all attacks Grab 1/2 -1 -2 Grab two limbs Grab By 1/2 -3 -4 Move and Grab Haymaker 1/2* +0 -5 +4 DC attack damage Move By 1/2 -2 -2 STR/2 + v/5 Move Through 1/2 -v/5 -3 STR + v/3 Set 1 +1 +0 Ranged Attacks only Strike 1/2 +0 +0 STR or weapon Roundhouse Kick 1/2 +1 -2 STR +5d6 Strike Leg Scoop 1/2 +2 -1 STR +2d6 Strike, Target Falls Slap the Weapon 1/2 +2 -2 Disarm, +15 STR to Disarm roll Body Check 1/2 +2 +1 STR +1d6 Strike; You Fall, Target Falls Flying Body Check 1/2 +2 -2 STR +1d6 +v/5; FMove COMBAT MODIFIERS Range 0-4 5-8 9-16 17-32 33-64 65-128 RMOD 0 -2 -4 -6 -8 -10

POWERS Cost  Power END 12 Damage Resistance (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (12 Active Points) 40 Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75% (60 Active Points); STUN Only (-1/2) 40 Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75% (60 Active Points); STUN Only (-1/2) 8 Fast Healing: Healing 1 BODY (Can Heal Limbs), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Hour (-2 1/4), Self Only (-1/2) Notes: No Healing Max (see FREd p. 120). 100 Total Powers Cost TALENTS Cost  Name 1 Resistance (1 point) 1 Total Talents Cost

SKILLS
Cost	Name
3	Breakfall 14-
3	Total Skills Cost

DISADVANTAGES
Cost	Disadvantage
10	Hunted: VIPER 8- (Mo Pow; Watching; Extensive Non-Combat Influence)
25	Battle Lust: When in a fight (Very Common), go 11-, recover 11-
5	Money: Poor
15	Physical Limitation: No sense of touch; cant feel pain (All the Time; Slightly Impairing)
20	Psychological Limitation: Confrontational and Aggressive (Very Common; Strong)
15	Psychological Limitation: Overconfident (Common; Strong)
15	Psychological Limitation: Contemptuous of those who cannot fight well (Common; Strong)
10	Reputation: Hot headed fighter 14- (Known Only To A Small Group)
10	Social Limitation: Secret ID (Occasionally; Major)
5	Unluck: 1d6
10	Vulnerability: 2 x BODY Acid (Uncommon)
10	Vulnerability: 2 x STUN Acid (Uncommon)
150	Total Disadvantages Cost

Height: 5' 10"	Hair: Blonde
Weight: 190 lbs	Eyes: Ice Blue
Appearance: Jonathan looks a lot like his father, without all the battering. He is wiry and rugged with an impressive physique. He has blonde hair cut short, and the same icy blue eyes of his father. He wears t-shirts and jeans or cargo pants with leather boots usually.
Personality: Direct and intense, with a total lack of fear for any physical challenge. He's not suicidal; he wouldnt jump of the Empire State Building, but he'd certainly bungie jump off of it for instance. He doesnt make friends easily, and has a tendency to go into battle frenzy when in a fight. He's also aggressive and has no respect for people that cant handle themselves in a fight. He's in the difficult years of adolescence and prone to mood swings.   As he gets older, his personality will even out more, and he makes a conscious attempt currently to stay out of trouble. He wants to make his parents proud of him, and has taken his father's advice to avoid crime to heart.
Quote:"Fair warning, pal: push me any further and Ill tear you down to the ground...."
Background: Jonathan was born 16 years ago in L.A. to Paulina Brinks, an unwed mother. He only vaguely remembered his dad for most of his life, because he got sent to prison when Jonathan was 5. His father sent letters from prison occasionally, but they were to his mom, and only occasionally mentioned him. Jonathan always had a temper, and would often throw fits as a small child. As he grew older he became aggressive and got into a lot of fights with other kids. He also became a major daredevil, never afraid to do anything or to pull any stunt, no matter how dangerous. He never seemed to feel any pain, and even when he got hurt, he always seemed to be fine the next day. He was always in trouble at school, and was basically an angry loner.   His mother started dating other men when Jon was 7, exhibiting her usual bad taste in men. Most of her beau's were bikers, blue collar workers, and other rough sorts, many of whom were alcoholic, overbearing or abusive, or all three. Domestic violence was a common occurance, and when Jon was 12 he beat the snot out of 1 particularly cruel jerk who took a swing at him at the dinner table 1 night. This was a turning point for Jonathan, as it was the first time he realized that he was uncommonly dexterous and strong compared to adult men. If he had been cocksure before, he was unstoppable now. He had no fear of reprisal, no hesitation to leap into a fray; he would confront anyone and challenge anything. He went from one fight to the next both in and out of school, and even beat up one of his teachers who tried to throw him out of class for being overly disrupted. This got him expelled, and was the final straw for his mother.   Paulina had had enough. She finally threw him out of the house, at age 16. She said he was just like his father and was going to end up in and out of prison if he didnt stop being such a hellion and start respecting the rules of society and other people. She told him that his father was out of prison now and starting up a business for himself and that he could go live with him for a while. She packed him off to the Greyhound station despite his protests to reform, and he was met on the other end by a nearly 7 foot black haired and muscle-bound man in a black tank top, displaying absurdly powerful arms. "Are you my father?" Jonathan asked in awe, which caused the towering brute to chuckle and reply with a deep Chicago accent, "Hah! Naw; da boss sent me around to pick you up; he's closing a contract over da phone with Unger. He wanted to be here himself, but, eh, you knows how it is; the client is quibbling over da details so hes gotta deal with it. Im yer Uncle Mike, but you can call me Jackhammer."   "Oh. What kind of contract? Do you work for my father? Jackhammer? Is my fathers company into construction or something?", Jonathan asked with typical teenaged aplomb.   "Uh, yeah, "or something". Yer father will tell you all about it. Lets go grab da car and get this show on the road; whaddaya say to that kid? Oh, is you hungry or something? We could stop for some sausages or something on da way back to da office."   Jonathan met his father later that day for the first time since he was 5 years old and was surprised to find that his father looked like an older, bigger, and more battered version of himself. There was no question that it really was his father; they looked almost exactly the same with only the difference of age to differentiate them. Jonathan knew from his mother that his father's name was Chad Kelley, but he was a little thrown off by all of his fathers friends/employees calling him "Machine" to his face and either "da Boss" or "The Machine" to refer to him. Jonathan was also suprised by the other guys that worked at his dad's office. Aside from towering "Uncle Mike", there was the deadly serious Mr. Unger, who looked like he had some kind of cybernetics grafted on to him, and of course "Bronto" with his stinking elephant like hide and menacing appearance.   It was fairly obvious to Jonathan that his father didnt know what to do with him. He was extremely busy getting his company established and had no parenting skills at all. Chad did make some concessions to Jonathan's presense; he got a bigger apartment with an extra bedroom and bought some furniture for Jonathan to furnish it with, and got him enrolled in a new high school, but mostly he expected Jonathan to go to school and stay out of the way. Every morning Uncle Mike would come by and drop him off at school. In the afternoons he was expected to make his own way back via bus.   Left to his own devices, Jonathan soon fell back into his old habits and was quickly involved in fights and trouble yet again. The led to Chad being called in by the school to take a hand. He confronted Jonathan about his behavior one night at home, and the teenaged Jonathan quickly lost his temper and began railing at his father, and finally got so worked up he took a swing at him. Suprisingly his father easily blocked the attack; this infuriated Jonathan and he threw a flurry of blows, trying all of his dirty infighting tricks and throwing everything he had into it. His father easily blocked everything he had. Finally, Chad just put his hands to his side and started taking the hits, easily absorbing the impacts. Eventually Jonathan's rage broke and he came out of his fugue tired and frustrated, and also feeling a little bit guilty.   "Well, it seems like something bred true in you anyway. You're pretty strong, son. And quick. Let me ask you something; do you feel pain? I mean, when something hits you, do you feel it? Me, I cant feel anything. I have no sense of touch at all. I cant feel hot or cold, if something is wet or not, or rough or smooth. I hate that. Did you know I used to be a carpenter? I learned it from my father. I loved to work with wood; to feel the grain of it beneath my fingers, the soft powder of wood dust, smoothness of a well finished piece. Thats what I miss the most, you know. When you build something with your own two hands, well, its a feeling like no other to see it standing there, finished....."; Chad shook his head, shaking off the maudlin thoughts with it; "Look son; I know you are angry at me, and at the world. I screwed up with you, no question. I should have married your mother and settled down, stayed out of the business and got back into carpentry or some other line of work. At the time I couldnt though. I was involved in a war between VIPER on the one hand and the Yakuza on the other. I was in a hard spot. I met your mother in a bar one night, and ended up taking her home. We had a lot of fun togther the next few days, but she was a good listener too and I found myself calling on her more and more in the next few weeks until eventually we moved into an apartment together. You were born later that year. I had arranged things so I could be there for the day the docs said you'd put in an appearance, but you were premature a few days and I was still away on a job. When I heard the news, I pushed through the job and rushed back to L.A., driving straight thru from Vegas. Heh; I about blew the engine out of the rental, tearing through the desert. Anyway, I got to the hospital 10 minutes after you were born and I remember looking at you through the glass and thinking, "I've got to straighten my act up, and be a good father to this kid." And I tried, Jon, I really did. I stopped working for the Yakuza and tried to get work as a carpenter or anything else for that matter. But I was already an ex-con and was lucky to get crap jobs where I couldnt make in half a year what I could make from 1 good score in the business, and spent most of the time unemployeed. You were probably too young to remember, but by the time you were 3 we had spent through all the money I had saved and we were broke, hard. So, I took on a job in the business for some extra cash to make ends meet. And then another. Within a year, I was back in the business again for all intents and purpose, working as a freelancer.   "Times were good for a couple of years before I got caught on a job by a cape with mental powers, and got sent back to Stronghold again for 15 years. Your mother says she held out for me for a couple of years, but the money I left with her had run out and I couldnt get her any more; finally I wrote and told her to find a new guy to make ends meet, so she could take care of you. I've come to understand that didnt work out so well, but there wasnt anything I could do about it in the pen, and your mother never told me regardless. I got time off for good behaviour, and I got a degree while I was in the pen, and Im trying to do something now smarter than busting heads for small change. Im trying to get established and make a new life for myself here.   "Your mother didnt want to see me when I got out, but I told her I wanted to meet you at least; three months later she sends you to live with me. That was a little unexpected but now that Ive seen you Im glad she did. I know I havent been there for you, son, but I want to make it up to you. I want to provide you with a good future, so you dont have to live the life that I have. I want you to keep your nose clean, and stay on the up and up, so you can make your way in society as something other than a criminal. You've got 2 more years before you are a man. In the meantime, stop fighting at school, put your nose to the books, and get ready for college. You are not going to grow up to be a criminal thug-for-hire like me. You've obviously inherited some superhuman abilities from me, fine and well, though I wish you hadnt. But dont use them like I've used them. Either just accept them and move on to have an otherwise normal life as a businessman or a craftsman, or moviestar, or whatever; or if you must use them, use them on the side of law as a cape. Trust me, there's a much better percentage in using them to stop crime than to commit crime these days. You can get sponsored, or do endorsements, or hook up with a wealthy cape with an establishment and mooch off of them for your 3 hots and a cot. Capes look out for each other too. Me, I cant trust any of the palooka's I work with; they'd all sell me down the river for the right price, or else are so dumb that they could be used against me. Take my current associates for example; Unger's doing his own thing -- he's got an agenda and this is just a means to an end for him unless I miss my guess. I can trust Bronto only so long as I pay him; the day the money runs out is the day he splits. I think Jackhammer is reasonably loyal to me, but he's also dumb as a post and easily manipulated. But capes, those guys watch each other's backs, you understand?   "So listen to me. I dont want to hear about you getting in trouble at school anymore, and I dont want you getting involved in any small-time-crime going on in the neighborhood. You're meant for better things than that, right? Leave em alone. You've established yourself as a badass. Now just ride the rep and only defend it when you have to. You'll get further that way. Im putting aside money for you to go to college; even if I get sent to Stronghold again those funds will still be there; its all in your name. So, nose to the books, no criminal activities, and start picking out colleges you want to go to; got it? And if you need to fight to get the anger out, you can come down to the dojo with me and we'll train together. Youve got your own style already, but your old man might still be able to show you a trick or two. Deal?"   Jonathan, his anger gone, agreed. Feeling accepted for the first time, he was able to reign in his temper considerably. Though still aggressive and headstrong, and liable to loose himself to a red fugue when in a fight, at least he didnt go around looking to start those fights as he did previously. He's been doing better in school, and is considering several institutions of higher learning. He trains with his father 3 nights a week most weeks, and has started to make a few friends at school. At his fathers advice he has avoided school sports as they would draw too much attention to his superhuman strength and dexterity, but Jonathan has started to develop an interest in Motor Shop. He's decided he wants a motorcycle, but he's holding off until he can afford a really good one. He works at a fast food restaurant on the weekends for some pocket money, and his father gives him a small allowance for doing odd jobs around the house, so he can make occasional small purchases and still save for his bike.   This year coming up will be his junior year of highschool, and his grades have improved enough that his father was able to get him accepted into the prestigious Ravenswood Academy, which his father thinks will be an excellent entry point into higher society. However, his father is not aware of Ravenswood's alternate purpose; he enrolled his son as a normal student and paid the tuition directly. It will be interesting to see what happens when Jonathan attends the school if he encounters other superhuman teens; his powers are already comparable to most adult superheroes, and are likely far beyond most of the other young students of the school for one, and his blue-collar past from the other side of the tracks will definitely make it a little difficult for him to blend in with the more sheltered teenagers he's likely to encounter. The faculty is aware of who Chad "The Machine" Kelly really is, and will keep an eye on his son to see if he has powers similar to his fathers, taking appropriate steps to inculcate him into the inner program for superhuman teens if it becomes apparant that he does.
Powers/Tactics: Jonathan has inherited most of his father's immunity to pain, superhuman physique, and natural gift for fighting. His capabilities are not as powerful as his father's, particularly his healing capacity. However, he is not fully grown yet; over time his capabilities may increase with maturity and training.   Jonathan is almost impossible to knock unconscious or stagger, will eventually recover from almost any injury, and has bullet proof skin. He is also impressively strong and rarely gets tired.   In combat, Jonathan simply attacks with no thought to defense. He is purely offensive, throwing himself at opponents without hesitation. His fighting style is undisciplined but due to his ability to ignore most damage, it is effective.
Campaign Use: Story driven character, ties many elements together, and has potential to grow into a competant hero later on.

Character created with Hero Designer (version 1.47)

[Dauntless]

Is this campaign heroic or superheroic? If it's heroic, maybe you can create a talent/power for 10 or 15pts that negates a need to take the Wound effect optional rule (I would still allow them to get knocked out and Stunned as explained below) . Unfortunately, there's no way to do this cheaply even with the powers themselves which is strange since Pain Tolerance should have been some kind of talent/power. Or if you don't want to make up a power like that, simply give the character a really high ego, with a limitation "only to avoid stuns from wounding or against Ego Attacks".

 

If it's superheroic, then having high PD or ED doesn't model it well. Afterall, PD and ED is your body's resistance against structural damage. Yes, it does help defend against Stun damage (or BODY if it's resistant), but stun damage in itself doesn't necessarily reflect pain. It can also simply represent the abuse one can take before passing out (boxers don't pass out due to extreme pain, they pass out because their body and mind simply can't take it anymore). Moreover, having high CON to resist being stunned doesn't reflect a high pain tolerance either. Sometimes the body can be "stunned" without any pain (sonic attacks, certain chemicals, pressure point attacks, etc). So unfortunately, it's a limitation of the Hero System BODY/STUN damage tracking system that prevents a good solid modeling of how to do this. You may need to have some form of Mental Defense which simulates defense against pain-inducing mental attacks (or maybe not...if you want the character to literally have no nerves that register pain, but still allow the mental "illusion" of pain). So you might want to define what makes him pain-resistant...is it his high willpower and Ego so that he "ignores" pain, or is he literally incapable of feeling pain?

 

The trouble is that there are some damage effects that the Hero System can't really handle. For example, many joint locks in Aikido are easy to get out of...if you have a high pain tolerance. It's not the STR of the lock, or even the skill of the practitioner that matters...some holds (for example Ikkyo) which are effective because if the defender moves, it causes excruciating pain without necessarily physically damaging any ligaments, muscles, tendons or bones. Hero cam't simulate this well because Body damage represents strucutural damage to vital body functions, and STUN represents bruises and mental "fatigue" (physical structural damage either extermally or internally...like concussions for example). The trouble is that STUN isn't exactly a measure of "shock" or "pain". Shock in the real world would half belong to STUN and BODY. Shock in lesser amounts will make you unconscious, and at serious levels will cause cardiac arrest or comas (BODY damage). Pain alone will not throw someone into shock who otherwise suffers no other damage (you'll just pass out from the pain)...but combine this with several other enviromental factors like exposure to the elements, fatigue, dehydration, delerium, hypothermia, heatstroke and others....and it can throw you into Shock (by the way, all the above afflictions are partially BODY damage effects depending on the severity, but mostly STUN damage).

 

In Hero terms, sometimes STUN damage should be translated to BODY damage. The other failure of the Hero System is the dreaded (I had 30 BODY, your damage takes me down to 1 BODY now....but I attack at full strength next phase!"). The Wound optional rule can mitigate this to a degree...but if a character has a high enough Ego roll, it doesn't matter. It doesn't make sense that a character beat to an inch of his life should still be at 100% efficiency. This is due to a lack of a "Pain" scale or structural deterioration effects.

 

The Hero system works well enough...but it does have it's weaknesses depending on how realistic you want to get, and what kinds of effects you want to model.

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by Dauntless

(well, lots of stuff, really: if you need to refer, it's just up there

 

I must disagree in part. While not all Stun is pain, all pain causes Stun. So, if you really wanted to, you could take the extra Constition and put it on the Limitation: Only Against Pain. I'd allow all Figured Characteristics from this, they would just work under the same Limitation, which would probably be -1/4 or -1/2.

 

The holds in question *can* be modeled, just not with Martial Arts, and not simply. You can use a no-range Mental Paralysis or Mind Control, Do Not Move, the special effect being extreme pain. The target would then break out solely based on Ego. I'd throw in a Martial Hold that did NND damage along with it, to do a die of Stun damage.

 

Pain can also be modeled: just apply a 0 Point Physical Limitation to everyone: STR Halved when at less than a quarter of Body. You could also just institute something like that as a house rule, but we are talking about modeling effects with the system at hand, after all.

 

Or something like that. The more "realistic" a setting gets, the more complex the modeling process, and the less people will agree on specifics.

[Dauntless]

GamePhil-

The trouble with allowing high CON to model pain resistance with the limitation "Only against Pain" makes bookkeeping very difficult if you also allow it to affect figured characteristics. Like I mentioned in my example, Pain is one of those mostly STUN but can be BODY damage kind of things (pain alone usually isn't enough to cause lethal damage, but it can if the body is already in trouble). So how would a high CON with "Only against Pain" allow one to have increased BODY?

 

This is what I mean by the Hero System having to do some really funky work-arounds to model this...and it's still not perfect. Plus if you model pain resistance by having high stun, how come sonic attacks or electrical stun gun attacks will be less effective (they don't involve any kind of pain effects)? If you have high STUN with the limitation "only versus pain", when you take damage that's all about pain (say a nerve strike), how much STUN do you have when you get hit with a Sonic attack?

 

The plain and simple matter is that the Hero System doesn't reflect pain very well without introducing quite a few house rules. I've done something similar to the Physical Limitation you described, by enforcing skill penalty, OCV/DCV, and other penalties based on a percentage of your BODY that the character has taken damage. I also always have the wound effect option, even in superhero campaigns. The trouble is that CON models physical health...but pain resistance and health are not necessarily related (you could buy a high CON with the limitation "only against pain", but I would not allow it to affect figured characteristics...if you want it to affect STUN, then buy more STUN, again with the limitation, "only against Pain").

 

The trouble with having STUN or BODY with limitations is in keeping track of damage. A good punch to the head is painful, but it's also just dizzying (trust me, I've been beaned in the head quite a few times during sparring...it's not so much painful as just disorienting). So how much of the damage rolled by the attack was really a part of "pain"? Now if you get hit over the head with a blackjack...yeah, a huge part of that is going to be pain, or if you take a club to the knee. But where does the GM draw the line? That's why I really think it depends on whether the campaign is heroic and needs a fair amount of realism (which will be difficult to model), or is superheroic, and the jury-rigged house rules will suffice to model pain tolerance.

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by Dauntless

GamePhil-

The trouble with allowing high CON to model pain resistance with the limitation "Only against Pain" makes bookkeeping very difficult

 

Sorry to snip so much.

 

Yes, it's complex, but it seems to do as you said. You spoke of realism and how HERO had limits of modeling it well, I simply responded to that. I never promised nor believe it is possible to have a truly realistic game system without also having a truly complex game system, whether you create it in HERO or not.

 

Would I ever do it this way? No, because I don't need that fine a detail in my games, and would just allow the straight CON.

[Demonsong]

I think STUN damage could be a representation of how much pain a person can tolerate before they pass out. And getting stunned is sort of a temporary pain over load. It all depends on how you look at. And it was with this view in mind that I presented the too options listed in my opening thread. Now I am not saying that my view is right and your view is wrong. But it would seem to bee that increasing some ones CON would not be a good representation of some ones ability to ignore pain so much as an ability to simply withstand more pain. Does that make since? What do you think?

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by Demonsong

But it would seem to bee that increasing some ones CON would not be a good representation of some ones ability to ignore pain so much as an ability to simply withstand more pain. Does that make since? What do you think?

 

Yes, it means that you can withstand more pain, but that could mean you can "ignore more pain up to a point". If you truly want to ignore pain, you would probably need to get Takes No Stun from the Automaton Powers, and that causes some other trouble (though I've been known to allow it).

 

Now, if you really wanted to do that, I'd also suggest taking a Disadvantage that a certain amount of Body damage rendered you unconscious (the body just can't keep going with all that internal damage, regardless of its owner not feeling it), and buy up your Body.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by GamePhil

Yes, it means that you can withstand more pain, but that could mean you can "ignore more pain up to a point". If you truly want to ignore pain, you would probably need to get Takes No Stun from the Automaton Powers, and that causes some other trouble (though I've been known to allow it).

 

Now, if you really wanted to do that, I'd also suggest taking a Disadvantage that a certain amount of Body damage rendered you unconscious (the body just can't keep going with all that internal damage, regardless of its owner not feeling it), and buy up your Body.

 

That's a good idea from not only the "reality" standpoint, but playability. A character who keeps fightinguntil he drops dead (and he doesn't know how badly he's hurt since he feels no pain) probably won't have much of a lifespan (unless he can also regenerate from "dead" I suppose).