Comeliness based skills

[nexus]

All right so there are no official Skills with Comeliness as a base... Let's come up with some.

 

PS: Exotic Dancer/Stripper, PS: Streetwalker/Hooker, PS:Runway Model (this would include how not to overshadow the clothings or down play it's flaws) and Vamp (a social version of Feint) came to mind. Most of these could have a Pre roll as complimentary when the GM feels it's applicable.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

I've been doing just such a thing as this, and I've come up with two full-fledged "Appearance Skills."

 

Beacon allows a character to stand out in a crowd or against a background, sort of like the opposite of Concealment or Stealth. It can even be used in conjunction with those Skills to get one person's notice while staying hidden from everyone else.

 

Distraction allows a character to pull a target's attention away from something (such as the security monitor showing his teammates sneaking into the building) and to himself or some other subject of his choice.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

I've been doing just such a thing as this, and I've come up with two full-fledged "Appearance Skills."

 

Beacon allows a character to stand out in a crowd or against a background, sort of like the opposite of Concealment or Stealth. It can even be used in conjunction with those Skills to get one person's notice while staying hidden from everyone else.

 

Distraction allows a character to pull a target's attention away from something (such as the security monitor showing his teammates sneaking into the building) and to himself or some other subject of his choice.

 

I like these, especially Beacon. How many times have you read of something like this in a novel, hm? Good stuff.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

Power. Which leads obviously to Comeliness-based Power stunts.....

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

All right so there are no official Skills with Comeliness as a base... Let's come up with some.

 

PS: Exotic Dancer/Stripper, PS: Streetwalker/Hooker, PS:Runway Model (this would include how not to overshadow the clothings or down play it's flaws) and Vamp (a social version of Feint) came to mind. Most of these could have a Pre roll as complimentary when the GM feels it's applicable.

 

Interesting question. Are those skills COM Based, or are they based on DEX or PRE, with COM as a complimentary roll? I can see your point. I kind of think that dancing is more DEX, and hooking is maybe PRE like Streetwise. However COM plays a big part in both. Modelling is definitely based on COM. Vamping is an interesting thought, too. Can a less then attractive woman catch your eye if she really knows what she's doing, or is it purely looks? I think COM, with a little PRE if needed.

 

In any event, we need more thngs for COM to do, so you are definitely not in the wrong.

[nexus]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

Interesting question. Are those skills COM Based, or are they based on DEX or PRE, with COM as a complimentary roll? I can see your point. I kind of think that dancing is more DEX, and hooking is maybe PRE like Streetwise. However COM plays a big part in both. Modelling is definitely based on COM. Vamping is an interesting thought, too. Can a less then attractive woman catch your eye if she really knows what she's doing, or is it purely looks? I think COM, with a little PRE if needed.

 

In any event, we need more thngs for COM to do, so you are definitely not in the wrong.

 

I see stripping/exotic dancing and hooking as Comeliness based because they're relatively "shallow". How many strippers/hookers/fashion have strong personality, bravery and charisma? At least by default. Much of the dancing for strippers is showmanship (presenting themselves in a sexy manner) though I'd agree Dex could be complimentary especially for the more acrobatic routines involved in pole dancing). PS Courtesan, Houri, Geisha (I know but it's a related profession) or Concubine are probably Pre with Com as complimentary (IMO).

 

OR Com based with allot of backup KS, PS and Conversation and Seduction to go with them.

 

The problem with mapping game abilities to real life is that (in Hero) there's always more then one way. PS: Exotic Dancer could be come based with a Dex complimentary roll or the other way around. Would an average or some what unattractive but very nimble person by a more popular Exotic Dancer than a very beautiful but average or slightly clumsy person?

 

and of course you can always buy your roll up either way.

 

Male strippers seem to work purely on Comeliness (from what limited exposure I've seen).. maybe Con since their routines while not as acrobatic seem pretty active.

 

It's allot like trying to decide what the default characteristic is to base sexual prowess on. It's up to how you see it.

[nexus]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

I can also imagine what would be a picky (but somewhat valid complaint) in many games these Skill wouldn't be "important". I personally don't feel that way but I can see the complaint.

[nexus]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

I like these' date=' especially Beacon. How many times have you read of something like this in a novel, hm? Good stuff.[/quote']

 

Seconded. Very cool and useful.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

I had a hard time coming up with a good name for Beacon. If anyone has any better suggestions, just let me know.

[nexus]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

I had a hard time coming up with a good name for Beacon. If anyone has any better suggestions' date=' just let me know.[/quote']

 

I can think of other names... they range from juvenile to down right puerile but I can't think of a better one at the moment.

[Alibear]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

It just shows how 'useful' Comliness really is when we have to battle to come up with skills like lapdancer to make it worthwhile.

 

Anyway most skill applications here scream Presence not Comliness. YMMV.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

I've been doing just such a thing as this, and I've come up with two full-fledged "Appearance Skills."

 

Beacon allows a character to stand out in a crowd or against a background, sort of like the opposite of Concealment or Stealth. It can even be used in conjunction with those Skills to get one person's notice while staying hidden from everyone else.

 

Distraction allows a character to pull a target's attention away from something (such as the security monitor showing his teammates sneaking into the building) and to himself or some other subject of his choice.

While these are interesting, I think at least the second one is best done with role-playing; perhaps using COM as a bonus. The first (Distraction) to me is clearly a PRE-based ability; again perhaps using COM as a bonus.

 

Neither of these rise to the level of Skills to me; although I could see Beacon as a Talent rather than as a Skill.

[nexus]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

I'm psychic!

 

It just shows how 'useful' Comliness really is when we have to battle to come up with skills like lapdancer to make it worthwhile.

 

Comeliness is, IME, useful on its own as a tool for determining initial reaction, ability to aesthetically please, distract and attract on a physical level and as support (and sometimes the basis for) other social abilities. But one of the big gripes about it is "There are no rolls for it". This is an attempt to be constructive and possibly address that issue for the complainers that can't deal with its presence on character sheet without more mechanical "meat".

 

One thing I did forget to mention was I think Comeliness should be an alternate basis for Romantic/Sexual seduction.

 

Anyway most skill applications here scream Presence not Comeliness. YMMV.

 

I must disagree on the PSs, Beacon seems fit for Comeliness. but I'd prefer this not to turn into a another long and oddly heated debate over Com's usefulness. That's been done and being done. In fact, its seems more or less settled as far the "official" rules go.

[OddHat]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

When it comes to skills, my opinion tends to be that COM has a similar relationship to PRE or INT that STR has to INT or DEX; COM is raw attractiveness, INT or PRE are required to do something with it, in the same way that STR is raw, well, Strength, but INT or DEX are needed to do something with it. So, I'd be unlikely to base a skill off of COM, in the same way I'd be unlikely to base one off of STR.

 

However, I do allow COM as a complimentary skill roll, and I would allow a COM attack similar to a PRE attack for purposes of distraction or attraction (classic genre bits include a girl flashing a leg to get a car to stop, or Schwartzu Sensei in Kekko Kamen flexing to distract Kekko).

[nexus]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

When it comes to skills, my opinion tends to be that COM has a similar relationship to PRE or INT that STR has to INT or DEX; COM is raw attractiveness, INT or PRE are required to do something with it, in the same way that STR is raw, well, Strength, but INT or DEX are needed to do something with it. So, I'd be unlikely to base a skill off of COM, in the same way I'd be unlikely to base one off of STR.

 

However, I do allow COM as a complimentary skill roll, and I would allow a COM attack similar to a PRE attack for purposes of distraction or attraction (classic genre bits include a girl flashing a leg to get a car to stop, or Schwartzu Sensei in Kekko Kamen flexing to distract Kekko).

 

While I can see your point I tend to see all characteristics as raw potential. Skills are how they are refined and honed. Intellect, for example, is a reflection of your potential for quick thinking, memory and cognition but without skills it doesn't really do much. Dump a bright Neanderthal into a computer lab and she might pick up some very simple thing but without training she'd not going to be surfing the internet anytime soon. Same thing with Pre, you can use it as sort of a "blunt instrument" with Pre attacks and some basic things but without Skill you can't use it subtly.

 

Comeliness is raw physical and possibly sexual appeal but you can learn to use it in specific ways and contexts, at least IMO. Maybe it's a holdover from being impressed with the Storyteller rules where a player can always make a unmodified Attribute roll but skills make the more effective.

 

Frankly, I'd do away with "Characteristic Bases" for Skills and just have them be modifiers to Char rolls as appropriate but that's outside the scope of this thread. Characteristics would represent potential, Skills (and some Talents) would be refinement.

 

In all fairness, I think your view on characteristics is probably the more popular one maybe even the right one.

 

Bonus points for mentioning Kekko Kamen.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

It just shows how 'useful' Comliness really is when we have to battle to come up with skills like lapdancer to make it worthwhile.

Yes, that would be a very valid point if any part of it was true.

[Alibear]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

Yes' date=' that would be a very valid point if any part of it was true.[/quote']

 

So you're going to reel off a huge great list of valid Comliness based skills now? Or are you just going to shoot my point down with nothing to back it up?

[nexus]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

So you're going to reel off a huge great list of valid Comliness based skills now? Or are you just going to shoot my point down with nothing to back it up?

 

"Valid" is a matter of opinion though, that's the thing. Those skill seem fine to me and would find use in games I run. As always, YMMV.

 

I would politely ask that if you are against the idea of Comeliness based skill that you please don't hash it out here. I don't want to this turn into yet another battle in the Comeliness Wars, okay?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

So you're going to reel off a huge great list of valid Comliness based skills now? Or are you just going to shoot my point down with nothing to back it up?

No, I'm just going to point out that we're not "battling" to come up with anything, nor are most (let alone all) of the Skills being suggested "like Lapdancer," nor is the goal here to "make it worthwhile."

 

Like nexus said, if you don't like COM, battle it out elsewhere.

[Alibear]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

Sure thing, no more Comeliness warmongering from me.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

Idea for a new name for "Beacon:"

 

Catch the Eye

Not Another Face in the Crowd

[Alibear]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

No, I'm just going to point out that we're not "battling" to come up with anything, nor are most (let alone all) of the Skills being suggested "like Lapdancer," nor is the goal here to "make it worthwhile."

 

Like nexus said, if you don't like COM, battle it out elsewhere.

 

 

Just a second here, I can't discuss this but you can rip into my point and I have no right of reply.

 

That seems fair.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

Idea for a new name for "Beacon:"

 

Catch the Eye

Not Another Face in the Crowd

"Eyecatching" might have a good similitude with "Lipreading." ("Not Another Face In The Crowd" is more like a sample power title.)

[nexus]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

"Eyecatching" might have a good similitude with "Lipreading." ("Not Another Face In The Crowd" is more like a sample power title.)

 

Dazzle?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Comeliness based skills

 

Dazzle?

That strikes me as something that would be a completely separate Appearance Skill. Probably it would be a way to grab someone's attention based purely on appearance. I'm not sure how it would work in game terms, though.