Favorite flavor of Guardians?

[Prometheus]

How do different types of Guardians work in a space opera Star Hero game? (By "Guardian" I'm refering to the group or entity that typically acts as a patron or central command for a patrol/enforcement organization in space opera: The Jedi Council (Star Wars), Mentor of Arisia (Galactic Patrol/Lensmen, the Guardians (Green Lantern), the Citadel (Mass Effect), etc.)

 

In the Lensman series, Mentor, for example, is reputably infallible and his agents are chosen from amongst the incorruptible. At first blush, this seems like it really wouldn't work in an RPG setting. On the other hand it could certainly make for an challenging roleplaying experience: sure things are black and white, but how do you play incorruptible without coming off like Dudley Doright (sic) all the time?

 

The most recent Green Lantern series brings back the Guardians, but there seem to be times when their wisdom isn't so... wise. The direction they've steered the Lanterns in is questionable, and at times their agents often have a clearer, truer vision than the Guardians themselves. While Lanterns are certainly fallible (some of the greatest have been the ones to fall farthest), they also seem to have a greater range of diversity and personality.

 

At the far end of the spectrum, Mass Effect's SPECTRE agents are about as grey as they come. There's good and bad, but results are what matters. While out and out brutality is generally unacceptable, if intimidating- or outright threatening- a bureaucrat saves a planet from destruction, so be it. Actually, if it came down to a bureaucrat or an entire population, the Citadel would likely look the other way even if you had to put a bullet in him. In the end though, responsibility falls on the agent's shoulders.

 

Yeah, all of these have potential, but what works? Genre and story conventions don't always translate onto the tabletop, so are there any obvious (or not so obvious) pitfalls inherent in any particular one? Is there one that just grabs you, plain and simple? I'm thinking outloud here a little and would like to see what the rest of Star Herodom has to say.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Favorite flavor of Guardians?

 

Why said you had to choose one type?

 

I could see mixing a few, some overt and some covert.

[Prometheus]

Re: Favorite flavor of Guardians?

 

Why said you had to choose one type?

 

I could see mixing a few, some overt and some covert.

 

Well sure, though I get the sense some things translate a little better than others, and I'm trying to get a feel for what those are. As a player, I don't think anyone likes to be railroaded through an adventure, but there's also a point where a laissez-faire guardian loses all personality. Can there be a balance, or (for example) should I ask my players to accept that Mentor Knows All as part of the campaign, for the sake of telling a good story?

 

Or maybe some version is just plain cooler than the others? Maybe this should have been a poll...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Favorite flavor of Guardians?

 

IME the greyer the setting, the greyer the oversight/patron group is and should be portrayed. "Space Opera" can have a wide range as far as morality goes, depending on the setting and (for an RPG) the feel that the group wants to experience. Just to take a few popular examples: Star Wars space opera is very clear good vs. evil, not just in the style it's portrayed, but because the basic conflict is explicitly Dark vs. Light. A character may choose the Dark out of the best of intentions, but ultimately falls into corruption as a result. This type of setting provides great clarity for the protagonists that they truly are fighting in the right cause.

 

Star Trek-style space opera has an overall authority that's essentially benevolent and espouses high ideals, but sometimes falls short of those ideals. Most often that's due to sincere but misguided "rogue elements" within the authority, or circumstances which force the authority into such a difficult situation that compromising its principles is seen as acceptable. The protagonists can generally feel that they're on the right side and will be supported for taking the right actions; but sometimes they're faced with ethical quandaries that can put them at odds with the authority - a good role-playing opportunity.

 

Babylon Five space opera features an authority which may start out looking like it serves the greater good, against forces which appear clearly inimical; but over time the protagonists start to realize that the issues involved are a lot muddier and more complex than they appeared at first, and that the authority's agenda may be quite different than it appeared to be. The heroes of the story may find the firm ground they thought they were standing on shifting, and may be forced to start charting their own course, at odds with their former patrons. This is a good route to take in a game if the group likes complex plots, are suspicious of everyone, and enjoy playing underdogs and outsiders.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Favorite flavor of Guardians?

 

Chocolate.

 

What? Who doesn't like chocolate guardians? It's better than these chocolate babies, I'm sure.

[Prometheus]

Re: Favorite flavor of Guardians?

 

Star Trek-style space opera has an overall authority that's essentially benevolent and espouses high ideals, but sometimes falls short of those ideals. Most often that's due to sincere but misguided "rogue elements" within the authority, or circumstances which force the authority into such a difficult situation that compromising its principles is seen as acceptable. The protagonists can generally feel that they're on the right side and will be supported for taking the right actions; but sometimes they're faced with ethical quandaries that can put them at odds with the authority - a good role-playing opportunity.

 

I like this one. There's some wiggle room available, without making the authority figures blatantly stupid or malevolent, and the players can face the difficult decisions for some good role-playing.

 

Scenarios with ethical quandries spring to mind pretty easily, but while I'm picking other people's brains, what kind of rogue elements could there be? I'd imagine there has to be a distinction between such an element and an outright splinter group or enemy within the ranks.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Favorite flavor of Guardians?

 

Well, let's look at the Star Trek model again. The most blatant "rogue element" is Section 31, a covert branch of Star Fleet Intelligence whose existence is known only to the highest ranks in the Federation, and which appears to have a mostly free hand to perform whatever legally and ethically questionable actions it deems necessary to preserve Federation security. Then there are the highly-placed military and government officials who take it upon themselves to act for the "greater good" by conducting unsanctioned experiments, or making secret negotiations or alliances with foreign/alien bodies. There was also the example of the Maquis, "freedom fighters" opposing the Cardassian occupation of Federation border colonies under a peace treaty. Many people within the Federation were sympathetic to the Maquis, to the point of giving them covert aid or acting as Maquis moles within Star Fleet. Of course there's the classic "undercover" scenario, in which operatives try to infiltrate another government or a criminal organization, and have to perform illegal or immoral acts to maintain their covers.

[csyphrett]

Re: Favorite flavor of Guardians?

 

Also remember the guardians mentioned are high command. They pick agents they feel can do the job against the threats they percieve.

 

In other words, Mentor, the guardians of the universe, Yoda, are the Captain Dobys of their settings. Lensmen, GLs, lesser Jedi Masters and apprentices are the Starskys and Hutches.

 

A guardian doesn't go in the field. They send other people. That makes them a start off point for a whole campaign, or single adventure, not a force to be considered in play unless there is some type of emergency.

 

I think Mentor was the last of his species and had lost a lot of power so trained new lensmen to send to the field. The GLC faced something they couldn't handle, so the Guardians called Superman and Alan Scott in to help out a couple of times. The Jedi were being killed, Yoda arrived with the Clone Army to save the day.

CES

[Prometheus]

Re: Favorite flavor of Guardians?

 

Also remember the guardians mentioned are high command. They pick agents they feel can do the job against the threats they percieve.

 

In other words, Mentor, the guardians of the universe, Yoda, are the Captain Dobys of their settings. Lensmen, GLs, lesser Jedi Masters and apprentices are the Starskys and Hutches.

 

A guardian doesn't go in the field. They send other people. That makes them a start off point for a whole campaign, or single adventure, not a force to be considered in play unless there is some type of emergency.

 

How they behave- even when they have little direct involvement- can really set the tone for the story. Compare Yoda and the Jedi council from Phantom Menace to Obi-wan and Yoda from The Empire Strikes Back. Mass Effect's Citadel Council views humans as the new kids, and there is definitely a sense of having to prove yourself as the one representative of the human race.

 

Strictly personal preference, ESB Yoda would get my character motivated. He does less, but I could see him getting a PC (and player) involved in the storyline, moreso than directly confronting a bad guy. I guess that's a nuance I'm looking for: what kind of guardian would your character follow?

[csyphrett]

Re: Favorite flavor of Guardians?

 

Depends on the character, depends on the game. If they were directly involved, probably none of them.

CES

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Favorite flavor of Guardians?

 

Clearly someone needs to make the very important point that Admiral DeGill does sometimes get involved in Atomic Betty's adventures. So Guardians do go into the field.

[csyphrett]

Re: Favorite flavor of Guardians?

 

Even Captain Doby had to drop the hammer on someone.

 

Most of the players I have dealt with prefer command to stay out of the way while they do the mission.

 

So I guess what I am trying to say is that unless your Guardian is going out there with a flaming sword and piercing gaze, he's not important except as a background npc.

 

Unless he's also the villain of the campaign.

CES