Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

[gmurie]

It seems that one of the recent trends in the comics industry (especially on the Marvel side) is to shake things up a little by altering the teams that have been pretty fixed through from the silver age to about 2000. All of these teams have always had their "core members" more or less, but now we see teams getting altered in major ways, and new teams being formed from collections of other villains.

 

I thought it might be fun to throw the idea at the Champions universe, which has been pretty fixed over the years. See if any odd new relationships can be built, and thence some interesting new plot points.

 

And because these sorts of things need rules here they are:

 

1. NO FOXBAT! I love Foxbat as much or more than the next Champions gamer, but this can all too easily become attack of the infinite Foxbat teams. A little more creativity than that. Please.

 

2. No master villains or fanatically loyal subjects to those master villains. A "team" of Dr. Destroyer and Warlord isn't a team, it's a major world turning plotline.

 

3. You may use ONE master villain/major hero of the second water as team leader. Holocaust is a good example, though his habit of frying anyone who annoys him even slightly would really lend itself well to teaming with anyone.

 

4. You can use any other villain (or hero!) that might conceivably ditch their current team mates. Either predominantly, as a side project, or because their normal allies are cooling their heels in Stronghold.

 

5. For every three published heroes/villains you may create a new one that might even be the glue that binds this new creation together.

 

Bonus points for creating a set of plot hooks.

 

 

My own team: THE ULTIMATE ULTIMATES!

 

This works best if the Ultimates run afoul of the PCs on several occasions and have their numbers whittled down or just get owned by them several times over. It assumes that you work through the "Cyclone is a snitch for PRIMUS" plot hook, Radium's powers go haywire or he just quits the group as his radiation gets out of control.

 

The group fragments and Slick and Thunderbolt just ditch Binder and Blackstar because Binder starts getting more and more angry and annoying. Blackstar's been around Binder the longest and they get along well despite a little friction here and there.

 

Binder's had a good thing with the Ultimates over the years and decides to rebuild. To not rebuild the Ultimates would be to concede inferiority and defeat, and that he will not do. First he recruits Brainchild, because the villain seems like a good fit (there's a matching set of psych limits and a common superpowered scientist theme add Teamwork to Brainchild, contributions to the Ultimates base and vehicle, and some more powers) and perhaps it'll help his new team deal better with those damned mentalists.

 

This is better if the PCs have had some run ins with Eurostar, or you can set it up so that Fiacho and/or Mentalla are out of commission for a while. Ultrasonique shows up at the new group's door. His paranoia has finally turned against his old team, and he feels that other super scientists might better appreciate him. With Brainchild about his erratic behavior can be controlled much as it was by Mentalla.

 

Fenris is a biologist that's turned himself into a savage wolfman, and in "Campaign Use" it's stated that he makes a good add on for any team. This is his new team, and he adds a level of science knowhow that the rest of teh team lacks.

 

Finally, deciding that having someone with electrical powers of some sort about would be handy Binder finally allows Stormfront into the team, but ony if he "smartens himself up a bit" (see Stormfront's plot hooks) add the contribution to the base and vehicle as for all of them, and give stormfront some more science skills and boost his INT to 13. Use this as a justification to add one or two slots to his EC.

 

This new group is radically different from the old Ultimates. They're more brutal without Slick's lighthearted nonsense or Cyclones Code vs. Killing. They'll still function reasonably well as a team and they've got a LOT more science knowhow.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

Scott Bennie posted a not-dissimilar thread a while back, a request to create a world-threatening "League of Evil" out of official Champions villains. Some interesting combinations were proposed: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49210

 

There's also Weldun's brainstorming a circle of "knights" to serve the Black Paladin: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43720

 

My own tinkering with official 5E villain teams has usually involved expansions to the existing roster, rather than major personnel shakeups. For example, I've introduced new Crowns of Krim: Hoarfrost, who wears the Glacial Crown (cold and ice powers); Floodgate, bearer of the Coral Crown (water powers); and Blight, possessing the Forest Crown (plant control powers).

 

I also added to the War Machine, wanting to cover some areas where I felt they were weak. Warhammer is one of the Warlord's hired engineers who wanted to get in on the field action, so he built strength-augmenting armor for himself to become the team "brick". Wartime is a female Shadow Army soldier critically wounded in battle, into whom Warlord had a "blueboy" heart implanted as an experiment. The heart accelerated her metabolism, granting her super-speed powers. Warlock is a renegade Morbane of DEMON who had a vision of DEMON being destroyed in a future cataclysm, so he fled the group and offered his services to the Warlord in exchange for protection from DEMON.

 

One other idea I've toyed with is pairings of CU villains who seem to have similar backgrounds and goals. One such pair, Holocaust and Gravitar, is suggested as a plot seed for Holocaust. They're both powerful mutants and members of the social elite with dreams of world conquest, and while their egos probably wouldn't let them stay together long, they could cause a great deal of grief in the short term.

 

I think that Zorran and Stingray might have long-term potential, though. The parallels between them are striking: both from ancient, hidden non-human civilizations, both members of their people's highest nobility, practitioners of occult arts, with ambitions to rule their homelands, and exiled from those homelands as a result. Stingray's greater physical power would complement Zorran's superior sorcery. I could see them partnering both professionally and personally, particularly since their main goals don't conflict and could potentially complement each other, i.e. the resources of Atlantis could be used to conquer Lemuria and vice versa.

 

EDIT: now that I think on it, Zorran and Stingray have the wherewithall to create their own team. Stingray can magically augment humans with the powers of sea-creatures as she did to herself; her background implies that she can also create enchanted artifacts, like her trident and protective costume. In principle Zorran's Philosopher's Stone should have even greater capabilities along those lines; and he can also construct various magitech "golems". For that matter, either Zorran or Stingray alone could create such followers.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

Here's another idea regarding the Crowns of Krim.

 

One of the plot seeds for Bloodstone is his discovery that he can mentally control vampires. Bloodstone attempts to master the vampire Stalker (from Champions Universe: News Of The World), but Stalker proves too strong willed and cunning for him, kills Bloodstone, drains him of his enchanted blood, and takes the Blood Crown for himself. The combination of the Crown, Bloodstone's blood, and his own vampiric status transforms Stalker into a monster of tremendous power.

 

Eventually Dark Seraph and the other Crowns come looking for Bloodstone. Stalker challenges Dark Seraph for leadership of the Crowns of Krim, and either defeats him or battles him to a draw. The membership of the Crowns fragments, with some joining Stalker while others remain with Dark Seraph. This would be an opportunity to introduce some of the new Crowns I suggested above, to round out the rosters of both teams. Stalker could even have sought out other Crowns himself before encountering Dark Seraph, creating his own rival team loyal to Stalker.

 

All that might affect Takofanes' ongoing efforts to press gang the Crowns of Krim into his service. Being undead himself, the enhanced Stalker may be even more vulnerable to the Archlich's control than the other Crowns, allowing his half of the team to fall under Takofanes' sway, and perhaps be dispatched to round up the others. Or maybe with the addition of Stalker's power the combined Crowns will finally be strong enough to confront and defeat the Undying Lord once and for all.

[casualplayer]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

Here's another idea regarding the Crowns of Krim.

 

One of the plot seeds for Bloodstone is his discovery that he can mentally control vampires. Bloodstone attempts to master the vampire Stalker (from Champions Universe: News Of The World), but Stalker proves too strong willed and cunning for him, kills Bloodstone, drains him of his enchanted blood, and takes the Blood Crown for himself. The combination of the Crown, Bloodstone's blood, and his own vampiric status transforms Stalker into a monster of tremendous power.

 

Eventually Dark Seraph and the other Crowns come looking for Bloodstone. Stalker challenges Dark Seraph for leadership of the Crowns of Krim, and either defeats him or battles him to a draw. The membership of the Crowns fragments, with some joining Stalker while others remain with Dark Seraph. This would be an opportunity to introduce some of the new Crowns I suggested above, to round out the rosters of both teams. Stalker could even have sought out other Crowns himself before encountering Dark Seraph, creating his own rival team loyal to Stalker.

 

All that might affect Takofanes' ongoing efforts to press gang the Crowns of Krim into his service. Being undead himself, the enhanced Stalker may be even more vulnerable to the Archlich's control than the other Crowns, allowing his half of the team to fall under Takofanes' sway, and perhaps be dispatched to round up the others. Or maybe with the addition of Stalker's power the combined Crowns will finally be strong enough to confront and defeat the Undying Lord once and for all.

 

:hail:

[gmurie]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

I think that Zorran and Stingray might have long-term potential, though. The parallels between them are striking: both from ancient, hidden non-human civilizations, both members of their people's highest nobility, practitioners of occult arts, with ambitions to rule their homelands, and exiled from those homelands as a result. Stingray's greater physical power would complement Zorran's superior sorcery. I could see them partnering both professionally and personally, particularly since their main goals don't conflict and could potentially complement each other, i.e. the resources of Atlantis could be used to conquer Lemuria and vice versa.

 

EDIT: now that I think on it, Zorran and Stingray have the wherewithall to create their own team. Stingray can magically augment humans with the powers of sea-creatures as she did to herself; her background implies that she can also create enchanted artifacts, like her trident and protective costume. In principle Zorran's Philosopher's Stone should have even greater capabilities along those lines; and he can also construct various magitech "golems". For that matter, either Zorran or Stingray alone could create such followers.

 

Your ideas intrigue me, and I would like to see any literature that you might have.

[Hagadorn]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

No name. Its just so far knowm as Dr Yin Wu's army

 

Master.

Dr Yin Wu, I've given him a few new skills and a gadget pool. Dr yin got some new toys.

 

Lieutenants,

Granite man.

Shadow Dragon.

Winter's Frost (A Yin-Yang to Ice dragon created by Yin).

Taipan (Dr Yin sent his newly formed team to go get the Super-Assassin.)

 

Sergeants. (300 point characters)

Mystic casters.

Worshippers of a dark good.

Weapon masters with various Eastern Weapons.

Techno-mages. Using weapons created by Dr Yin.

 

Followers.

Ninja, (200 points)

Clay warriors, (150 points)

Clay Dragons, (400 points)

 

Bam.

 

What I'm using in my Game. The result of 3 of my players having ALL their hunteds show up.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

Your ideas intrigue me' date=' and I would like to see any literature that you might have.[/quote']

 

Well, I'm not too sure what you mean by "literature." I haven't dealt with this idea beyond what I wrote here, so there are no notes of my own to share with you. If you mean official published stuff, the character write-ups of Zorran and Stingray, and the stuff about Atlantis and Lemuria in Hidden Lands, is all I know of that's pertinent.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

This new group is radically different from the old Ultimates. They're more brutal without Slick's lighthearted nonsense or Cyclones Code vs. Killing. They'll still function reasonably well as a team and they've got a LOT more science knowhow.

 

This actually reminds me of my own past use of the Ultimates. Although this was for 4E and the team lineup I used incorporated several villains that didn't make the transition to Fifth, the gist is that I decided to take the scientific expertise of several team members, and the name "Ultimates," and carry them to their logical conclusion. These Ultimates were not only a more powerful team than the published version, they were all experts in various scientific fields, and were dedicated to rule of the world by the "scientist elite," whose intelligence and training made them most fit to lead (according to their philosophy).

 

My Ultimates engaged in cutting-edge research, as well as tried to steal any advanced technology they heard of, looking for the breakthrough that would give them the power to force the world to accede to their demands. They'd also recruited other like-minded scientists from around the world into their support organization, "International Scientific Elite" (ISE, pronounced "eyes"). ISE maintained a front as a supplier of technology to supervillains and other criminals, to build up their war chest and gain intelligence on potential rivals or those with their own valuable scientific secrets.

[bubba smith]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

interesting

[Shaft]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

Here's a variant on the 4th ed Champions that I use for my Street level Supers/Dark Champions Animated game where the powers are grittier and there are no friendly alien civilizations (only non-communicative ones that either hunt humans or take them aweay for experimentation):

 

The team is a BPRD style unit that investigates bizarre happenings.

 

Jaguar is this unit 1's team's leader. He tries to avoid using his jaguar form, favouring to use his far more skilled human form. Also, in human form he can do cool things like use jaguar senses and augment his reflexes and strength in human form by tapping in to the Jaguar's spirit. When he dies a full transform, he goes berserk, so the Were-Jaguar form is reserved for only the worst emergencies.

 

Seeker is pretty much unchanged, though he wears light body armour and focuses on stealth whenever possible.

 

Quantum's powers function a lot more like Negative Man or Negative Woman from the Doom patrol. She is able to project an energy form from her, but her physical goes unconscious when she does so. The energy form can project energy, fly and is desolid, but it cannot resolidify.

 

Defender's Power Armour is a lot bulkier (think ED-209 from RoboCop). Also, he's not independantly wealthy. The agency owns the armor, and James Harmon just happens to be the operator. The armor also requires a maintenance crew to support it.

 

Solitaire is effectively a novice level street level mage on par with the power levels of mages in Shadowrun.

 

Obsidian is an exiled African prince with Superhuman Strength and Toughness. In this game, he has a STR in the 40s.

 

There are a few other members of this unit:

 

The Field Commander for the entire Unit is Quentin Smythe- think Agent Smith from the Matrix, but friendly. He is a telepath and has five duplicates that never merge back with him. The five other Smythes are usually in the field and he is in constant telepathic contact with them. A subplot that I ran is that he used to have a sith clone, but that clone was severed from the collective and went rogue.

 

The lead Gadgeteer/Q Branch type is a girl named Savant. I based her on Oracle/Barbera Gordon, minus the wheelchair and Batgirl past. She has a photographic memory, and elite hacking skills. She also built the Overwatch AI program that keeps the agents in contact with HQ.

 

Savant's assistants in R&D are Oddball (based on Oddball from Kelly's heroes, but a gadgeteer instead of a tank commander) and WhizKid (teenage genius/nerd).

 

Faith Logan is a Slayer a la Buffyverse who got a Wolverine style skeleton and claws implanted inside her that is made out of orichalchum, a mystically enchanted material that is unbreakable and affects desolid.

 

William Bester is another telepath with a history in the CIA as one of their cleaners and the ruthlessness that comes with it. Based on Bester from B5 and possibly just as much of a bastich.

 

The PCs are unit 2 and consist of:

 

Master Sgt Rock (a Captain America style Super soldier, complete with Shield, with a little bit of Jugger Grimrod from the Alien Legion)- team leader.

 

Gabriel: a metaplanar wizard with an extra dimensional sanctuary

 

BlackJack: An SAS commando during WWII who was made immortal and given powers over Darkness by Anubis while fighting the Axis in Egypt.

 

Hanshu: A ninja with high level chi powers that let him walk through walls and become truly invisible.

[gmurie]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

Well' date=' I'm not too sure what you mean by "literature." I haven't dealt with this idea beyond what I wrote here, so there are no notes of my own to share with you. If you mean official published stuff, the character write-ups of Zorran and Stingray, and the stuff about Atlantis and Lemuria in [i']Hidden Lands[/i], is all I know of that's pertinent.

 

It's a Simpsons quote.

 

There are a lot of good minions for that team just in CKC.

 

- Black Paladin: He'll "minion" to either Zorran or Stingray, and you could easily see him backstabbing them to his advantage at a crucial juncture. Add some sort of magical amulet to let him function underwater.

 

- Leech : 2x effect from magic mind control. Aquatic. Would function in either Lemuria or Atlantis.

 

- Menagerie : Sees the two mystics as "on her side" as far as protecting the oceans and wilds goes. Add more points to her, and maybe give her some mystic foci gifts. Add a slew of animal forms that'd help Zorran and Stingray.

 

- Riptide: Gullible girl bonded with water elemental. Perfect patsy.

[bubba smith]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

 

Seeker is pretty much unchanged, though he wears light body armour and focuses on stealth whenever possible.

 

is this who i think it is a certain aussie?

[Shaft]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

is this who i think it is a certain aussie?

 

Ask your avatar.

[bubba smith]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

i just did he confirmed it way to go seeker

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

There are machines in the heart of Arcadia that have stood, arcane even to Empyrean super-science, for 250,000 years. The purposes of some are perfectly well known. Just ask the crews of the Aero-triremes of Lemuria, or the explorers who have walked right past the walls of the Mother of Cities without even noticing it.

Some, for all the energy they drink, are of purposes inscrutable, having never done anything but turn their enigmatic cams in the lifetime of any Arcadian yet living on Earth.

When Augury came to Arcadia with the Northern Guard in 1996, every gyro wheel on one of those machines toppled. Eleven years later, it summoned Hunter Thav "home" to Arcadia Everliving.

What it said to him, if it said anything, we will never know. But we know that Thav has assembled an unlikely force consisting of Tesseract, Taipan, the Strangler, Khanjar and Hazard. He has some hold over them (although Hazard is more of an enforcer than a victim of Thav's methods), and, dirty as their tactics have been, they have been a force for good.

This "Assassin Squad's" intelligence could not have been assembled without help. A North Korean defector to VIPER says that two major sanctions are left: Teleios and Fiacho.

But the Italian superhero Fortuna has told the Drifter that the Fiacho file is a legend. The other name on the list, the second most dangerous man on Earth, is actually a professor of historical linguistics at Humboldt-Universitaet Berlin.

The Drifter's contacts (the Witness, mainly) says it is true, but not why. For a nigh-omniscient being, to be ignorant of something so profound is ...disturbing.

In the maze that is the future, he has seen one path to the survival of the human race. He must give Thav one last contract. The "Assassin Squad's" last mission will be to take out the Drifter himself.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

I did have an idea a while back for a featured villain team mini-campaign I was going to run last summer, which fizzled when the group I was planning to run it for couldn't jell. The concept wasn't so much a team as a loose alliance. Nine of the most powerful, destructive demonic entities abiding on the Earth band together to advance their mutual goals. Said goals aren't exactly subtle: the spreading of large-scale terror, chaos, death, and destruction. While their goals aren't subtle, several of these demons are very devious and possess powers well suited to deception and manipulation, to complement their tremendous collective force. Together they pose a grave threat to the entire world.

 

I intended to use demonic beings written up in various 5E Champions sourcebooks, gathered from around the world. So the group would fit within the "official" CU, although their backgrounds aren't so tied to the setting that they couldn't easily be dropped into other campaigns. If I were going to run this group today, this is the lineup I would choose, with the sourcebook each monster appears in for anyone unfamiliar with them and curious:

 

From the British Isles, Samhain, who spreads and feeds on terror and suffering (Champions Universe and Evil Unleashed). Samhain is the most subtle and charismatic of these demons, and is the one who is "leading" them, although with creatures as evil and arrogant as these it's all even Samhain can do to keep them going in the same direction;

 

From Egypt, The Living Sphinx, a cunning and ferocious predator, who consumes the spirits of the slain, particularly those skilled in magic (Champions Worldwide);

 

From India, Survalesh, an asura from the Hindu hells who delights in tormenting the living as he once punished the dead (Champions Worldwide);

 

From China, Li Chun The Destroyer, driven by lust for devastation, with the blood of Chinese superheroes already on his hands (Champions Worldwide);

 

From Australia, Marmoo, master of insect hordes from the Dreamtime, who desires the destruction of everything of beauty in the world (Hidden Lands);

 

From the United States, Baykok, a demon-god of the Chippewa peoples, who hunts heroic warriors and devours their souls (Champions Universe: News Of The World);

 

From South America, Eclipsar, wielder of terrible powers of darkness, who dreams of extinguishing the Sun and ending life on Earth (Champions Worldwide);

 

From beneath the Atlantic Ocean, The Murk, an aquatic horror filled with the dark power of the inimical Qliphothic dimensions (Hidden Lands).

 

The actual figure who inspired this assemblage is the scion of the Descending Hierarchy of Hell called Bloodrage, nourished by the emotion of rage (Champions Universe: News Of The World). Bloodrage brought the idea to Samhain, and has posed as his messenger to the other demons, using his considerable talent for persuasion. He tends to remain behind the scenes as "advisor" to the other demons, but is covertly orchestrating their campaign.

 

I planned to introduce these demons to the PC heroes gradually in the early game sessions, starting with encounters with individual demons, then in twos and threes, until the PCs understand the full scope of what they're up against. As a story arc in a larger campaign the heroes might hear of their depredations around the world, often in places those particular monsters don't normally frequent. (Killing some notable NPC heroes would give them instant credibility with the PCs.) You could also foreshadow their coming through dreams and visions for the heroes and for mystics around the world. The heroes might even do battle with cultists who mistakenly believe they can curry favor with these demons.

 

The full assemblage of these monsters represents enough raw force to match almost any team of heroes, so if the PCs aren't the top hero team in a GM's game world they'd have to be handled with care. All of these creatures are extremely evil, hugely arrogant, and uncooperative. The GM can highlight their poor teamwork and barely-repressed hostility toward each other, potential weaknesses that clever PCs can exploit. You can use less than the full complement of demons in any given encounter, up to enough to trounce the heroes without outright slaughtering them.

 

Lesser heroes can be made crucial to defeating the demon alliance by giving them knowledge of special artifacts, spells, or environmental conditions particularly effective against the monsters. Acquiring these things can be challenging adventures in their own right. The heroes might even receive tips from Bloodrage, who doesn't want his fellow demons to win too quickly or easily -- he wants plenty of battle to fan wrathful emotions to feed on. (Revealing Bloodrage's treachery and manipulation might be enough to break up the alliance.)

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

That's a very dangerous and eclectic bunch, LL.

I bet the Demonologist is behind it....

[gmurie]

Re: Alternate Teams

 

Here's another idea that I got just thumbing through CKC.

 

It starts with Thorn, who hates all mammals who prey on his precious plants. He keeps trying to destroy the filthy mammals, but is stymied for obvious reasons. He's only 350 points going solo against groups. It's not like his psych lims leave him inclined to work alongside others, not even Mechanon who'd want to destroy the plants too.

 

At some point (maybe even during combat with PCs) Hornet tries to steal the same bio research as Thorn, or he just decides that Thorn would be a good ally as he's had problems enough with the stinking mammals himself. Insects pollinate plants and keep the cycle of live moving properly. It's a good match.

 

This is best if you have the PC's stop a scheme that the two of them work on together. Hornet creating insects that spread a dangerous pollen that animates or super grows plants in an attempt to destroy the city.

 

Esper also hates humans, and desires to control and dominate all. She busts Thorn and Hornet out of captivity after the collapse of aforementioned scheme. With her powers of persuasion and a somewhat better grasp of the long view she proposes an alliance with one goal, the elimination of 80% or more of the human population. Corral the remainder and keep them under control.

 

Esper has worked alongside Fenris on several occasions and is able to "nudge" his animal nature with her Mind Control so he also signs on. Thorn and Hornet might have some reservations, but he's a predator who goes after other mammals. Not an eater of bugs or plants, and his science skills are too valuable to ignore.

 

Alter all four villains, add SS: Psionic Engineering to Esper and some other skills. Give all four a modest VPP and Inventor and more SS's, or just hand wave whatever equipment they need for their schemes.

 

An ideal fifth member would be a machine type creature with a similar contempt for humanity, but isn't actually wanting to wipe all organic life from the planet like Mechanon. The Engineer isn't quite a good fit for this, so one may have to be custom built. An experimental AI robot for use in Stronghold that's reprogrammed and set loose as a distraction during a prison break was my initial thought. It'd want to keep ALL humans penned up and under control.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

That's a very dangerous and eclectic bunch, LL.

I bet the Demonologist is behind it....

 

That is an excellent idea! The Demonologist wants to topple modern civilization, and a grand scheme involving demons fits perfectly with his M.O. He might be controlling Bloodrage to set up the whole thing, or even masquerading as Bloodrage! He'd be sure to have some magical ace in the hole to prevent the demons from completely destroying mankind, which heroes could discover.

 

I'll have to owe you Rep for a while, though.

[gmurie]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

I should think that would require PC's built on 450+200 unless you had EXCEPTIONALLY clever PCs.

[Shaft]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

This is kind of an alternate team, though it imports characters into the Champions continuity rather than shuffling existing ones:

 

This is a spoiler if you haven't seen the Kill Bill movies.

 

 

The Deadly Viper Assassination Squad (DVAS) from Kill Bill is affiliated with Viper, of course. Most of them use Hanzo swords, forged by Hatori Hanzo, the finest forger of katannas on the planet. Sadly, he is retired and no longer makes istruments of death, but the right PC could come along and persuade him to make one final blade if that PC had the appropriate vermin to kill.

 

The DVAS are headed by Snake Charmer aka Bill Carradine. He is a practioner of several martial arts and has learned his skills from the legendary Pai Mei (Pai Mei is one of the only denizens to ever escape from Agharti- the Shadow City). Snake Charmer is one of Pai Mei's finest student and has mastered numerous chi disciplines that include using chi to hypnotize opponents and cloud their minds.

 

The only student to exceed Bill's prowess is Uma "Black Mamba" McBride. She is able to use her chi skills to tap into the same shadow dimension that Shadow Dragon accesses. Unknown to Snake Charmer, Pai Mei has taught her the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique.

 

Snake Charmer's brother, Michael "Budd" Carradine, calls himself Sidewinder and was also a student of Pai Mei's. Sidewinder did not advance as far as his brother, though and is merely able to use his chi skills to vanish from sight. though he's gotten quite good at making people think he can teleport (he has the power, but with the limitation: must cross intervening space). Sidewinder's Hanzo sword is a gift from his brother.

 

California Mountain Snake can transform herself into a stone form, combining the strength of a brick (STR 45-55) with the finesse of a martial artist. She is missing an eye and wears a patch. Her remaining eye becomes a diamond in rock form. Pai Mei poked out the missing eye to make a point while he was training her (and to demonstrate that he can crush a diamond with his finger strike as well). Like most of the DVAS, she is a Kenjutsu expert. She collects Hanzo swords, preferably from downed opponents. Her chi training was interupted when she poisoned Pai Mei in retribution for the loss of her eye.

 

Cotton Mouth aka O-Ren Ishi is a Chinese-American woman with a bluish skin colour as a result of the aquatic experiments that she underwent. Those experiment left her with gills and an augmented physiology that allows her to thrive in an underwater environment. She is a low level brick (STR 30) as well, combining strength with the martial arts finesse that the Kenjutus training she received from Snake Charmer gave her.

 

Copperhead aka Vernita Green is Viper Agent who underwent Kenjutsu training with Snake Charmer. She has added poison dispensers into her gauntlets.

 

I also added the following "new" members:

 

Constrictor, who is a carbon copy of the Marvel villain/anti-hero that is armed with a pair of retractable, cybernetic lashes implanted into his forearms.

 

Anaconda, a carbon copy of the brick chick from Marvel's Serpent Society, with limited stretching as well as wrestling skills.

 

The Hanzo Swords have 0 STR min and a +2 to +3 OCV bonus. Occasionally he mixes orichalchum into the mix, allowing them to affect desolid (the special effect is that they can strike a target's chi). As Hanzo himself says of his finest weapon: "If you were to encounter God himself with this sword, God would be cut..."

 

 

 

[bubba smith]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

good work

[JmOz]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

Scott Bennie posted a not-dissimilar thread a while back, a request to create a world-threatening "League of Evil" out of official Champions villains. Some interesting combinations were proposed: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49210

 

There's also Weldun's brainstorming a circle of "knights" to serve the Black Paladin: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43720

 

My own tinkering with official 5E villain teams has usually involved expansions to the existing roster, rather than major personnel shakeups. For example, I've introduced new Crowns of Krim: Hoarfrost, who wears the Glacial Crown (cold and ice powers); Floodgate, bearer of the Coral Crown (water powers); and Blight, possessing the Forest Crown (plant control powers).

 

I also added to the War Machine, wanting to cover some areas where I felt they were weak. Warhammer is one of the Warlord's hired engineers who wanted to get in on the field action, so he built strength-augmenting armor for himself to become the team "brick". Wartime is a female Shadow Army soldier critically wounded in battle, into whom Warlord had a "blueboy" heart implanted as an experiment. The heart accelerated her metabolism, granting her super-speed powers. Warlock is a renegade Morbane of DEMON who had a vision of DEMON being destroyed in a future cataclysm, so he fled the group and offered his services to the Warlord in exchange for protection from DEMON.

 

One other idea I've toyed with is pairings of CU villains who seem to have similar backgrounds and goals. One such pair, Holocaust and Gravitar, is suggested as a plot seed for Holocaust. They're both powerful mutants and members of the social elite with dreams of world conquest, and while their egos probably wouldn't let them stay together long, they could cause a great deal of grief in the short term.

 

I think that Zorran and Stingray might have long-term potential, though. The parallels between them are striking: both from ancient, hidden non-human civilizations, both members of their people's highest nobility, practitioners of occult arts, with ambitions to rule their homelands, and exiled from those homelands as a result. Stingray's greater physical power would complement Zorran's superior sorcery. I could see them partnering both professionally and personally, particularly since their main goals don't conflict and could potentially complement each other, i.e. the resources of Atlantis could be used to conquer Lemuria and vice versa.

 

EDIT: now that I think on it, Zorran and Stingray have the wherewithall to create their own team. Stingray can magically augment humans with the powers of sea-creatures as she did to herself; her background implies that she can also create enchanted artifacts, like her trident and protective costume. In principle Zorran's Philosopher's Stone should have even greater capabilities along those lines; and he can also construct various magitech "golems". For that matter, either Zorran or Stingray alone could create such followers.

 

 

Consider the names of the crowns STOLEN...BWAH HA HA

[Shaft]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

good work

 

Thanks!

[Shaft]

Re: Alternate Teams (inspired by Thunderbolts)

 

I always thought that Freon (choosing to leave Viper), Icicle (after getting a bit more experince in the supervillain job market) and the Winter Dragon (after leaving Tiger Squad and going into freelance mercendary work) might make good henchmen for an Ice themed mastermind a la Mister Freeze. Adding in concepts based on some of the lower level ice-themed villains like Captain Cold (from Flash's Rogue gallery-essentially a thug with a cold gun) and Blizzard (from Marvel- essentially a thug with ice powers) might be a good one too. Then adding a Killer Frost homage with heat themed drain powers rounds the team out nicely.