Simulating Drowning with Images

[Marcus]

Situation is as follows:

 

PC, a finger-wiggling mystic-VPP guy, has among other things a power that drowns people. (some dice, AOE, NND vs. life support, does body, continuous uncontrolled, turned off by appropriate first aid, etc. etc. etc.)

 

Obviously the above is a fairly nasty power, both structurally ((continuous uncontrolled NND does body? Bad PC, bad bad bad)) and heroically ((YOUR DOING WHAT TO THOSE AGENTS!!!!)). This, to me, begs the question...

 

What if you just wanted to make them feel like they were drowning? Mental Illusions seems appropriate, but so does images, and I have a personal long-running distaste for Mental Illusions (and mind control, for that matter).

 

So how would you buy either? And what effect do you see it having? I know we reason from game effect, but the only 'game effect' intended is to create a sensation in the targets. I guess more what I'm asking is what responses would you anticipate to that? I can see agent level guys doing alot of rolling around and gasping, hard-knock guys 'getting off one more shot' before they go under, and the smart guys going "Hmm.. Im not getting dizzy, yet..."

[whraven]

Re: Simulating Drowning with Images

 

I'd probably go with something that reduces OCV, DCV, and PER, as well as causing some STUN damage (he's trying to hold his breath for a long time, or his brain, believing he's drowning, actually causes him to lose STUN). You can work out some sort of defense for the smart guy, perhaps a PER roll of some sort.

 

That said, I'd probably go with a DRAIN, possibly with AVLD or NND, and maybe BOECV.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Simulating Drowning with Images

 

Mental Illusions could work (maybe based on CON) - you can limit it so that the victims do not actually die and probably pick up the secondary effects - like no REC while drowning.

 

Worth a look.

 

The trouble with images is that, whilst you could technically use it for the sensation of drowning it would have no real game effect.

 

You might be better off with Change Environment, which can, at least, mess you up a bit.

[lunaticlord]

Re: Simulating Drowning with Images

 

It sounds like the guy is going for an actual drowning (since life support is required as the counter) rather than the perception of such. And the Does BODY seems like he's going for a rather harsh effect that shouldn't be there for such an automatic power. I mean how many people that he's going up against are going to have the life support to counter it? It's also very clumsy and likely WAY over the AP limit of the campaign (I haven't run the points, but it sounds expensive).

 

I like a simple 3d6 or at most 4d6 [EB, NND (life support/holds breath), AOE] without the Does BODY for the effect if it's physical in nature. Or if he mostly wants the mental effect of drowning, then I like a low d6 [Mental Illusions, AOE, Cumulative, Set Effect] to build up to the effect over a few phases. Images would be tricky since everyone would have to see the water, feel the choking, etc.

 

Frankly, it sounds like he's looking for an instant kill and playing with a lot of caution/stop powers that a GM should feel free to refuse if he thinks it's unbalancing.

[Marcus]

Re: Simulating Drowning with Images

 

It sounds like the guy is going for an actual drowning (since life support is required as the counter) rather than the perception of such. And the Does BODY seems like he's going for a rather harsh effect that shouldn't be there for such an automatic power. I mean how many people that he's going up against are going to have the life support to counter it? It's also very clumsy and likely WAY over the AP limit of the campaign (I haven't run the points, but it sounds expensive).

 

I like a simple 3d6 or at most 4d6 [EB, NND (life support/holds breath), AOE] without the Does BODY for the effect if it's physical in nature. Or if he mostly wants the mental effect of drowning, then I like a low d6 [Mental Illusions, AOE, Cumulative, Set Effect] to build up to the effect over a few phases. Images would be tricky since everyone would have to see the water, feel the choking, etc.

 

Frankly, it sounds like he's looking for an instant kill and playing with a lot of caution/stop powers that a GM should feel free to refuse if he thinks it's unbalancing.

 

 

I suppose I was unclear. "Lungs of Water", the does body nnd awful power, is a potential construct out of the pool (barring GM's approval, which is its own problem. *G*)

 

The question is 'what do I do to make someone FEEL like that is happening, without -actually- drowning/ killing them, because killing people is unheroic (IC reason) and continuous uncontrolled does body NNDs make GMs uncomfortable (OOC reason). IE, the player is going "How do I make people THINK Im doing this to them, without actually doing it?"

 

One option is the exact same power, only without doing body... thus, they feel like their drowning, and even pass out. ((This is still a continuous uncontrolled NND, however, though it has a relatively easy and readily ascertainable 'turn off switch'))

 

Another option (positied in the first post) is to use images to duplicate the sensation, without any game effect. This gives the GM alot of control over the outcome, but could still be useful as a mook-buster.

 

I do like the drain and change environment ideas, as well... *hmm* Thanks, all!

[Tonio]

Re: Simulating Drowning with Images

 

Just wanted to point out that making someone feel like they're drowning isn't very heroic, either. In fact, it's one of the most cruel things you can do to someone. =/

[Marcus]

Re: Simulating Drowning with Images

 

Just wanted to point out that making someone feel like they're drowning isn't very heroic' date=' either. In fact, it's one of the most cruel things you can do to someone. =/[/quote']

 

As between 'feel like I'm drowning' and 'shot in face with burning bolts of fire', I know which one IM picking.

 

Now, granted, its a mage with a VPP, so I suppose the guy could have nothing but hearts and puppies attacks, you know, stun-only no-knockback with the special effect is "I just feel sooo happy and comfortable and sleeeeepy..."

 

Then again, maybe its like Star Wars... Using 'The Force' for attack is bad, naughty, and eeevile... but slaughtering zillions of stormies with reflected bolter blasts and the burnninatin of your light saber.. well, thats just Buisness As Usual.

 

All of that being said, it DOES sound rather like magical torture... though in the context of self defense against people who are trying to hurt you, I dont see a moral problem with it. Shooting someone who is shooting at you is self defense, and/or combat. Shooting someone whose tied up and defenseless is a particularly stupid form of torture, or the like.

[pinecone]

Re: Simulating Drowning with Images

 

I'd say look at CE requires Ego roll or take some minus x,y and z....

[SteveZilla]

Re: Simulating Drowning with Images

 

As between 'feel like I'm drowning' and 'shot in face with burning bolts of fire'' date=' I know which one IM picking.[/quote']

 

Don't forget "drowning in burning napalm".

 

Now' date=' granted, its a mage with a VPP, so I suppose the guy could have nothing but hearts and puppies attacks, you know, stun-only no-knockback with the special effect is "I just feel sooo happy and comfortable and sleeeeepy..."[/quote']

 

Reminds me of a Motivational Poster I saw once: Lawful Good Summoner.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Simulating Drowning with Images

 

Here's a character that uses a drowning attack, but it is probably much the same build as the one you were talking about. Drowning is nasty but no real substitute for a decent energy blast or punch - it does not cause damage fast enough to be a real and credible threat BUT it does tend to scare the bejeezuz out of anyone it is used against, because no one likes to think of going out unable to draw breath.

 

Almost no one. There's Fox Mulder, I suppose, and some UK MPs.

 

Undine

[Marcus]

Re: Simulating Drowning with Images

 

I really like Undie.. and yeah, thats a very similar drowning attack to the first one discussed above.

 

I agree about being often not worth its points... while terrifying, both IC and OOC, the 'put-down' speed is just not as good as with a straight EB or RKA.

 

Thanks, again!