Elemental benders (Avatar)

[magickrat4]

Hey, a friend of mine is starting up a Super Hero campaign in a bit and using this type of game system is new to us. I was wondering how you would go about creating an "elemental bender" type hero similar to the "Avatar: The Last Air Bender" cartoon.

 

I do not understand the game mechanics enough to make this type of character on my own and I was unable to find any decent information on the internet or these forums regarding this type of character build. My GM is giving us 200cp + 150 disavantage points *if we take them all* to make a starting Super.

 

So my main question is, is this even possible and if so would it be possible given the amount of starting points? I was looking into Elemental Control Frame work but again, I do not fully understand how to even create powers.

 

Also, if it has been done, is it even worth it?

 

 

If someone has a link to a "How to" or any general info that would be super.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

It's very doable, you just have to decide what you want to accomplish. What kind of Bender do you want to be?

 

Getting full on Avatar State levels of power might be difficult on 350points, but

any normal Earth, Air, Water or Fire Bender should be no problem. You could even mix and match somewhat and end up quite powerful.

 

I think Elemental Manipulation and Martial Arts are a very effective combo if played right. One of my villains with that combo gave my players a hard time recently

[magickrat4]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

I was actually only interested in building an earth bender type hero, that could eventually bend metal too similar to the blind girl in Avatar, Toph.

 

Is it possible to make a pretty strong character similar to what I described. Could you give me some tips on what powers etc.. I should take in order to get this character fully functional.

 

Again, I am really only intersted in Earth bending, the implications on a planet where well, earth is usually always around you sound really fun... Maybe eventually branching off into other "bendings/elements"

 

Thanks for the help.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

I don't really watch the show, but 'elemental' powers are a comic-book staple, so ...

 

Telekinesis, only vs Earth, Stone, and Metal

Spatial Awareness, only vs Targets on the ground

Entangle (both standard and 'barrier only')

Energy Blast vs PD (Rock throwing)

Ranged Killing Attack (SHARP rock throwing)

possiblly Missile Deflection (raising short-lived barriers for protection)

 

That's a decent foundation, I think.

[Chris-M]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

I'm going to give you my advice on how I would build an earth bender based on exactly what we see in the television series. If you want to deviate from that to build your superhero, you are of course free to do so -- I just want to be clear about what it is I'm trying to model with my suggestions. Also, bear in mind that a standard earth bender isn't going to be able to do all of the super-cool stuff you see Toph and King Bumi doing in the cartoon -- they are the two most powerful and skilled earth benders in the world at the time of the cartoon. You'll need some time and some XP to get to that level.

 

An Elemental Control is definitely a fine way to go. Read through the section on Elemental Controls a couple times until it starts to make sense to you. If you have specific questions about how they work, come back and ask them here (we love answering questions here!).

 

Let's look at some basics. Being true to the show, all of your bending powers at this point should have a few Limitations applied to them. First, a version of the Gestures limitation that requires the character be free to move his arms and legs.

 

Second, you'll want a limitation that requires that the character be standing on or touching an "appropriate amount" of rock or hard earth. You and your GM will have to make sure you're on the same page about what an "appropriate amount" is, but if you're wanting to do that move where the earth bender stomps the ground, a small boulder shoots up from the ground, and then the bender kicks it and sends it flying into a foe, you're going to need a small boulder-sized chunk of rock and not pebbles.

 

Third, I'd add a "Requires Skill Roll" limitation based on a skill in your martial arts style (which could just be "Earth Bending Style") to make sure that you execute the form properly.

 

As for the powers themselves, I'd start with small collection of basic (and useful) powers:

 

You'll want some offense. To kick or punch a chunk of rock at someone, go with an Energy Blast versus PD (Physical Defense).

 

You could also do something like a small Telekinesis with the Area Affect advantage and an "only for throwing" limitation and a "target must be standing on the ground" limitation. The idea here is that you cause the earth to surge up beneath them and hurl them through the air.

 

For defense you could do a Force Wall with a limitation "only on top of the ground."

 

Force Wall isn't a great personal defense though, so you could do that thing that Toph and Aang do where they wrap themselves up in rock, which I think you could do as Armor that you have to pay Endurance for.

 

Another fun power you could do to create pits and crevasses and such in ground and rock would be a Ranged Killing Attack versus PD, non-sentient rock and earth only.

 

One thing to keep in mind though. In a modern context, you could find yourself in a lot more situations where your powers could be neutralized than in the context of a pre-industrial Asian fantasy setting. For example, on the 45th floor of an office building you're not going to have anything to bend with. You're also going to want to make sure in advance that you and your GM are on the same page about things like concrete and blacktop. Can you bend those? Can you bend you been earth or rock up through them (important to know if you want to be able to bend when you get in a fight in the parking lot outside a mall or something ).

 

Anyway, hope that helps and gives you some simple material to start working with. As always, let us know if you have any other questions.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

Good advice, but let me chime in on a few things:

 

An Elemental Control is definitely a fine way to go. Read through the section on Elemental Controls a couple times until it starts to make sense to you. If you have specific questions about how they work' date=' come back and ask them here (we love answering questions here!).[/quote']

 

I'd probably suggest a Multipower, at least for the characters attacks. Generally saves points if you have more than one attack. Movement Powers and Defenses can still go in an EC though.

 

First, a version of the Gestures limitation that requires the character be free to move his arms and legs.

 

Restrainable would probably be a better fit here. Similar overall effect though. However, since the character can bend with various hand and foot movements it may require a reduced limitation.

 

Second, you'll want a limitation that requires that the character be standing on or touching an "appropriate amount" of rock or hard earth. You and your GM will have to make sure you're on the same page about what an "appropriate amount" is, but if you're wanting to do that move where the earth bender stomps the ground, a small boulder shoots up from the ground, and then the bender kicks it and sends it flying into a foe, you're going to need a small boulder-sized chunk of rock and not pebbles.

 

Don't forget, Earth Benders have the ability to transmute their element between Sand, Stone and Earth.

 

Advanced Earth Benders also do not need to be in contact with the ground in order to Bend.

 

Third, I'd add a "Requires Skill Roll" limitation based on a skill in your martial arts style (which could just be "Earth Bending Style") to make sure that you execute the form properly.

 

I'd probably avoid this one. This may make things more difficult to use than is strictly necessary, especially considering the number of AP the powers will probably be. In the end, the limitation will require you to have a very high Power Skill roll if you want to use your abilities reliably.

 

For example, on the 45th floor of an office building you're not going to have anything to bend with.

 

The Dai Li ware stone gauntlets for a reason

[magickrat4]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

thanks for the help guys, I definately want to take my character in the same direction as Toph and Bumi, but obviously starting out he wont be as strong with his powers.

 

My main concern is being able to function in the modern day due to all of the un-natural earth/metal around. I was thinking that it would be something like what Toph does with metal bending where she finds small earth impurities in the metal/concrete/etc.. and bends them inorder to use her bending, I suppose I would have to discuss that with my GM.

 

I plan on having my character use the shaolin form that the earth benders use on the show in order to activate the powers like you (Chris M) suggested.

Also, I like the concept of the "required skill roll" based on how well my martial arts is, however I feel that might be severely limiting. Though it will give my character a reason to maintain a trained skill in that type of martial arts in order to use his powers. This I will have to think on.

 

I believe I need to sit down and create a solid character sheet with the information you all have given me. I wil post back here in a few days (I'm on vacation in Myrtle beach ATM) with what I have come up with and you guys can pick it apart. My group of RP friends is currently doing a Vampire:The Requiem chronicle so we have about 5 months before we branch into Hero, I just want to be ready to roll.

 

Thanks for the help again, if there is anything you can think off lemme know, in terms of powers etc...

 

edit: to make it not a wall of text

[Chris-M]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

I'd probably suggest a Multipower' date=' at least for the characters attacks. Generally saves points if you have more than one attack. Movement Powers and Defenses can still go in an EC though.[/quote']

 

My experience, FWIW, is that folks new to HERO have a harder time conceptually with Multipowers than Elemental Controls for some reason, so that's why I was pointing him in that direction. But yeah, normally I'd go Multipower for a set of offensive powers and EC for defense and movement, too. So 'Rat, if you want to jump in and do it right, do what Bloodstone said.

 

Restrainable would probably be a better fit here. Similar overall effect though. However, since the character can bend with various hand and foot movements it may require a reduced limitation.

Good point.

 

Don't forget, Earth Benders have the ability to transmute their element between Sand, Stone and Earth.

I didn't forget, I just was trying to keep the character build simple. Also, I'm not sure how advanced an earth bender you have to be to do the transmutation trick.

 

Advanced Earth Benders also do not need to be in contact with the ground in order to Bend.

Yeah, and I thought about phrasing that as "or within X number of hexes of an appropriate amount of rock/earth" or something along those lines, but I figured I'd just keep things simple and go with a more "standard" earth bender warrior approach as I didn't know how advanced a bender 'Rat wants to build.

 

In my mind, based on what I can recall from the show (I have watched seasons one and two several times each and all of season three a couple times, but not while trying to catalog powers or anything), the progression I would use in terms of power/skill level for earth benders would be:

 

 

1. Must be in contact with the ground.
   
2. Must be in contact with an appropriate amount of earth/rock.
   
3. Must be within a certain relatively close range of an appropriate amount of earth/rock.
   
4. Can bend with very little arm/leg motion.
   
5. Can do the transmute sand etc. into hard rock power stunt.
   
6. Can bend extremely large amounts of earth/rock.
   
7. Can bend at extended range.
   
8. Can bend with no arm/leg motion (can basically just think it).
   
9. "Size matters not" -- can move mountains.
   

 

I don't know, what do you think?

 

I'd probably avoid this one. This may make things more difficult to use than is strictly necessary, especially considering the number of AP the powers will probably be. In the end, the limitation will require you to have a very high Power Skill roll if you want to use your abilities reliably.

Yes, you're absolutely right. Good point, I'd scratch that one, too, now.

 

The Dai Li ware stone gauntlets for a reason

Definitely, but they're like earth bending master ninjas (or jade demons, if you prefer) and I would build them somewhat differently.

 

Speaking of which, one thing I did notice last viewing of season two was that in the scenes where we see them doing their Spider-Man-style wall crawling shtick on a sheer wall, column, or ceiling, the surface is always stone, which I think is clever -- I assume they're using their bending to make their stone gloves and shoes (don't forget those! ) to stick in a "magnetic" fashion to the stone surface they're scurrying up.

[Chris-M]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

I plan on having my character use the shaolin form that the earth benders use on the show in order to activate the powers like you (Chris M) suggested.

 

Also, I like the concept of the "required skill roll" based on how well my martial arts is, however I feel that might be severely limiting. Though it will give my character a reason to maintain a trained skill in that type of martial arts in order to use his powers. This I will have to think on.

 

Well, like I just posted in my reply that I wrote while you were replying , I think Bloodstone is right and you'd be better off avoiding the Requires Skill Roll thing. I was trying to think of a way to make it work so that you do have to keep your martial art trained up, which I like too, but I don't have my Big Black Book handy and I can't think of a way to do it offhand.

[magickrat4]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

Thanks again Chris-M, I would like to dive into this "Hero" thing hardcore and go for the most challenging character I can create with my limited knowledge of the rules/book.

 

If you think into this thread a little bit more I can tell you that my character is, hopefully (with the points allowed), going to be fairly adept at moving earth (concrete/asphalt) and will need to be within a certain range to "bend" it, probably about 30ft/40ft (not sure on the whole range thing yet).

 

I hope to have him be able to mold earth/metal around him to form armour, but if that is not a power in the begining I do not have a problem with it. I am looking for a decent amount of assault/defense, being able to pull up a huge slab of stone to stop someone from charging me or bind someone's feel and hands so they can't move is another feet I was looking into. Again hurling rocks is a must, also using the crushing force of slabs of stone moving together. That kind of fun stuff.

 

Considering the genre of hero I planned to make I have not even considered multi-power, I assume it's a framework so I will have to check it out.

 

To: Chris-M

As far as the list you posted in your previous reply, I have to say that most "benders" that are no longer children being trained must be within a certain proximity to a certain amount of earth/rock in order to bend. Obviously, the more skilled one is the less movements they will have to make to bend the material, the further away they can be from the material and of course the amount of material they can actually bend.

 

Think of Katara learning how to bend water in season 1 in terms of progression.

 

Thanks again for the help guys.

[Mr. R]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

I am interested to see what you come up with. I like that show and the visuals are easily translated into a supers environment.

[magickrat4]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

Ok, multi-power or EC framework? This is my current debate. I am thinking about using EC for all of my defensive abilities and having multi-power as my offensive framework. As long as the two frameworks do not alter any ability within eachother I should be ok right?

 

I aquired Hero Designer v3 and it is really helping with the character progression, I will post the first draft of my hero up here for you guys once I am done.

 

Also, as far as dismantling the environment for the earth throwing and moving abilities, what types of limitations or advantages should I look for?

[CoreBrute]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

Maybe a side effect, damages the enviroment -0, or if your GM allows -1/4.

[Chris-M]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

Maybe a side effect' date=' damages the enviroment -0, or if your GM allows -1/4.[/quote']

 

I think something like that would be the way to go. The issue of whether it's worth any points would depend on whether you and the GM want to actually roleplay dealing with the government getting torqued because whenever you use your "ground gliding" power it tears up the street wherever you go. Personally, I'd prefer to just handwave stuff like that away, so I'd have it be worth -0 and not worry about it, but YMMV.

 

As for the Multipower/Elemental Control question, I think Bloodstone hit it on the head: A Multipower for offensive powers (and possibly Tunneling, since, IMO, an earth bender couldn't tunnel and fire off other attacks at the same time), and an Elemental Control for defensive powers, non-tunneling transportation powers, and whatever miscellaneous powers you come up with that the character should be able to use or maintain while also throwing his earth bending attack powers around.

[magickrat4]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

I think something like that would be the way to go. The issue of whether it's worth any points would depend on whether you and the GM want to actually roleplay dealing with the government getting torqued because whenever you use your "ground gliding" power it tears up the street wherever you go. Personally, I'd prefer to just handwave stuff like that away, so I'd have it be worth -0 and not worry about it, but YMMV.

 

As for the Multipower/Elemental Control question, I think Bloodstone hit it on the head: A Multipower for offensive powers (and possibly Tunneling, since, IMO, an earth bender couldn't tunnel and fire off other attacks at the same time), and an Elemental Control for defensive powers, non-tunneling transportation powers, and whatever miscellaneous powers you come up with that the character should be able to use or maintain while also throwing his earth bending attack powers around.

 

I started to research telekinesis a little bit and that might be a better choice than energy blast.

 

But the more I think about it the more I want to link energy blast to my telekinesis in order to summon the earth near me to use as a projectile. Get what I am thinking? I am not sure if it will work though, I haven't really gotten to look at "linked" powers.

 

I will have to talk to the GM about the environment destroying, personally I have started my powers list with a pretty spiffy "change environment" power, however, from what he has told me about the campaign it is taking on a sort of "Marvel: Civil War" type of concept.

[Chris-M]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

But the more I think about it the more I want to link energy blast to my telekinesis in order to summon the earth near me to use as a projectile. Get what I am thinking?

 

Absolutely. But in HERO, what we're concerned about is the effect being modeled -- and we can model it however we want. By that I mean, if you want your character to be able to pull up a chunk of rock or hard ground and use it as a projectile to hit someone for physical damage, you can simply buy it as an Energy Blast versus PD (basically making it a "Physical Blast" -- this may seem a bit strange, but trust me, we do it all the time ) with a Limitation that you must be near a suitable source of rock or hard ground to use. In other words, the act of "telekinetically" pulling up a hunk of rock and then shooting it at someone is simply collapsed into one game mechanic: your basic Energy Blast (vs. PD, with the Limitation). This is no different than using Energy Blast to build a "Wind Blast" power or a "Lightning Bolt" power or the like. The Energy Blast vs. PD has also been used to model things like whips, a "lightning-fast punch" power, and so forth. It's a completely legit, and simple, way to go.

 

Of course, you absolutely could buy some earth bending Telekinesis and use it to grab up hunks of rock or earth and hurl them at people -- nothing wrong with that. It's a little more clunky to my mind because there are some considerations to using TK that don't apply to Energy Blasts, but your GM may be content to handwave those off anyway (I probably would).

 

I'd recommend considering both approaches carefully, just as a learning exercise if nothing else. BTW, just because it hasn't been mentioned yet, if you've got the disposable income you, or someone in your group, should definitely invest in the UNTIL Superpowers Database (at least the first volume if you can't afford to get both at the moment). Elemental powers are covered in detail, so you'll find lots of good solutions there, and it's also a great way to see how lots and lots of different superpowers can be built quite simply in HERO.

[magickrat4]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

Ok, as far as the character sheet is concerned my earth bender is finished. I will be completing the background for him soon.

 

Lemme know what you think about the build. I might adjust the points/powers after I watch Avatar seasons 1-3 again.

 

Its in a HDC format though so only openable with HDv3.

 

To Chris-M: I posted this before I read your reply. I can see how energy blast makes sense, I guess I was trying to look at the game mechanics to literally. TK I feel would still be a good choice to attempt to crush people with chunks of rock/earth and to move large portions of it. I'll take a look at those books you mentioned though I am still getting a feel for the mechanics of the game.

 

Also, I realize that the TK active cost is higher than 80 and in the character creation portion of the book it stated that 80active points was max for an "average" super hero (200cp + 150 dvp) but I figured I could just confirm it with the GM.

[CoreBrute]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

Interresting, and it is well done. Just a question about the detect. Are you trying to do the detect thing like Toph, where she feels vibrations and ths can see? If so, you may want to add the limitation, can only be used when in contact with the ground (-1/4) or when in contact with natural earth, stone or soil (-1/2). I think the second works better.

[Weldun]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

Here's an alternate build, it also got another 20 points to spend in some skills. Which you are lacking in.

 

You could spend them in, say, KS: Earthbending, (2pts for 11-), Sc: Geology (2 pts for 11-). What are this guy's hobbies? What else does he know? Toph was quite knowledgeable of High Society, Ettiquette and Bureaucracy. She chose not to use them, but she had the skills nonetheless. Hoist is also a good one, if you can get your hands on Ultimate Brick or Ultimate Skill. It's usually for super-strong characters, but it will let you get the most out of that TK. Skills are are a common oversight on the part of new players, hell, a lot of old players forget them from time to time.

 

As for books, there are two your group may want to get, expecially if you're all new to the game. The first is the UNTIL superpowers database. It's a compilation of a very wide selection of power builds, and can be quite informative to new players when trying to figure how to build a particular power. The second is the Ultimate Skill. It's a book devoted completely to skills and it's almost as thick as the main book. It contains detailed descriptions of how background skills work and what each and every skill covers.

[Marcus]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

Odly enough, one of MY friends is starting (actually, restarting) a HERO game (Supers, 700! point), and one of the new-to-hero players wanted to do an avatar-bender.

 

We went with three multipowers: One of offensive type stuff, with alot of variable special effects to represent air/earth/fire blasts, one of movement powers, also VSE (he can 'fly' on colums of rock, a la Terra, or on air, fire, etc...), and finally one 4-slot, 1 for each element, that reflected a bending 'focus', giving the character essentially 4 elemental forms he could switch between, with appropriate bonuses (character ends up being a demi brick/blaster/speedster/martist if he is earth/fire/air/water focused).

 

Oh, and one thing that fit 'benders, at least for our game, was the massive property damage. Less, perhaps, when bending some elements than others... but Earth Benders, espc, are INCREDIBLY destructive to the built environment, espc. in a city.

 

If I can get ahold of the sheet, Ill post it, as another 'take' on the subject (and one that travels fairly far afield from the core concept, I'll grant)

[magickrat4]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

@ Corebrute: My character is not blind thus does not necessarily need the detect, however, given todays society with the vast ammount of things that do not constitute earth/stone/metal I thought the detect skill as a passive ability in a 360degree would be good to have active all the time to help my character distinguish between what he can use and can not use. Also, off the bat I do not plan on having him be able to manipulate metals that are of superiour quality. As said in Avatar Toph manipulates the small earthen imperfections in the metals.

 

@ Weldun : I actually staired at the skills section of the HDv3 for about 4 hours trying to decide how any of the skills would fit in but I couldn't think of any, though I never gave the KS and SS skills a second glance. That is a very good idea! I also do not have a fully developed background story just a basic outline(I'm gonna try to work on that this week). Chris-M recommended Until Superpowers 1+2, I will have to take a look at Ultimate Skills.

I am going to take a look at that HDC as soon as I am done with this post!

 

@ Marcus : I was considering multipowers frameworks however after doing the math I felt like I was losing points, also I felt more restricted on what I could actually do in 1 phase (though I am still not quite sure what I can do in 1 phase). Also, given the 200+150 starting points I simply wanted to make the most of my first hero.

If you could get a copy of that CHA sheet that would be awsome, I'd love to see what others have come up with regarding this type of build.

 

Thanks for the input guys, I already removed the "linked" limitations from the powers on that HDC so as soon as I revise it and take some of your suggestions into effect I will post another one!

[magickrat4]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

Latest Character Sheet, lemme know whatcha think.

[Weldun]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

Latest Character Sheet' date=' lemme know whatcha think.[/quote']I still think it's light on skills, but thats just me. Other than that, I think that we have a winner.

[magickrat4]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

I still think it's light on skills' date=' but thats just me. Other than that, I think that we have a winner.[/quote']

 

Thanks for the input Weldun, moving the powers around and setting up a Multipower Framework was a brilliant idea.

 

If you have a few, mind giving me a bit of info on how the skills work in Hero game? Also, a majority of the ones that looked interesting where from fantasy books, though I do not have all of the Ultimate books etc..

[Whitewings]

Re: Elemental benders (Avatar)

 

In a modern context' date=' you could find yourself in a lot more situations where your powers could be neutralized than in the context of a pre-industrial Asian fantasy setting. For example, on the 45th floor of an office building you're not going to have anything to bend with.[/quote']

 

Um... you do know that office buildings are normally made of either reinforced or pre-stressed concrete, right? Concrete *is* stone, at least as far as Earthbending goes, even if the steel skeleton isn't.