Centaur Martial Arts

[Uthanar]

So I have never built to many Martial Arts during my time reading the Hero books. Generally I would just take the suggested ones and use them. I have a character who wants to play a Centaur Martial Artist, and I have been talking to him about it.

 

I see the Centaur Unarmed Fighting Style as something commonly used by many Centaurs and is probably a very feral brawling fighting style. While I have removed the alcohol negatives as Disadvantages from the Centaur race, I would still see them as frequently Temperamental creatures that may enjoy a bit too much liquor.

 

I would see this fighting style as emerging from some of the fights that the Centaurs probably have gone through in such situations as well as fighting against multiple opponents in the wild. I imagine a Centaur using their four legs to basically rock back and forth on, allowing them to kick to the front and rear with some frequency and strength. Their hands and arms could be used to Grab characters and restrain them. The fighting style itself would be designed to take on multiple combatants.

 

Hopefully some folks who know more about horses might be able to help me out, as well as folks who just have imagination for this kind of thing. A brief stab at this is below.

 

I would see the Martial Art taking Martial Strike and Offensive Strike for the front and rear legs respectively. I know that horses can kick with their front legs, but I'm not sure exactly what they need to go through since they don't have muscles in their legs below the knee. I'm not sure if they have to rear all the way up or not to get a hit in with their front legs.

 

I think that a Martial Dodge would be appropriate to the fighting style, a need to get away from predators would be taught. Martial Grab or Choke Hold seem like they would be good to represent the training that you go through for use of your arms in rendering an opponent useless. I could also see a Killing Strike delivered with the hooves.

 

Most Martial Arts that I have seen in Hero only have like 4-5 maneuvers, so I'm trying to keep the list down if that is the way it is supposed to be.

 

Outside of maneuvers, I could see both Rapid Attack and Defensive Maneuver 1 and 2 being part of the fighting style.

 

Hope to get some feedback on this, and see where I am going right and where I am going wrong. Thanks much all.

 

Uthanar

[sbarron]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

If I were building a martial art for Centaurs, it would probably be something that involved ranged attacks, mixed in with timely charges into and then out of melee. I realize that's probably not what your player wants, but its just what makes sense to me.

 

Horses are probably faster than any other sentient land-based PC in your game. Why would they stick around and fight H-to-H when then never need let their opponent get close? I don't think they would. Having them learn H-to-H would work to neutralize their advantages...which doesn't make sense for a race of fast runners...with skinny legs.

[Uthanar]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

I can certainly agree with your statements on this. My best reply to you is that the use of this martial art as a character would be an unusual choice. Certainly it was at one time used by centaurs as a form of defense regularly, but with use of tools they only really pass it down as a brawling tradition, so it isn't really the way I would see the race fighting if they were serious about hurting someone, for that they would look at their mobility, ranged attacks, and massive charges (Move bys, move throughs).

 

This on the other hand is kind of like Centaur play fighting toned up a notch. Passed on to young rambunctious centaurs by older centaurs who have probably spent their fair share of time using it during drunken celebrations and the fights that break out because of such celebration.

 

Or am I off my mark on this stuff? I was kinda caught off guard by the player going from an idea of a centaur druid, to a centaur barbarian, to this, but have enjoyed some of the images that I got of it.

 

Uthanar

[Maur]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

Who says they have skinny legs? Centaurs not under breeding control of, well, say, humans, probably wouldn't go for a skinny-legged centaur. Yes, it might make them faster, but only on terrain really designed with no real obstacles. I doubt our skinny-legged companions would fair very well if released into the wilds with hills, mountains and rolling plains...

[McCoy]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

I don't think Centaur Martial Arts would have many hand techniques. Their legs are much stronger and have more reach.

 

Main techniques would include rearing up on the hind legs to trample an opponent with the forelegs, a double kick with the rear hooves, and using superior size and weight to body check an opponent.

 

HTH would be reserved for multiple opponents, or when cornered or surrounded. Preferred technique is to body check the opponent out of the way, open up some distance, turn and put an arrow through their attacker's eye.

[sbarron]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

This on the other hand is kind of like Centaur play fighting toned up a notch. Passed on to young rambunctious centaurs by older centaurs who have probably spent their fair share of time using it during drunken celebrations and the fights that break out because of such celebration.

Uthanar

My initial thought on how to do this was to make it a cultural fighting style for use against other centaurs, and not so much an effective fighting form against other races. Which I think is an awesome idea. But it might be a tough sell to a PC...they usually like to get max bang for their buck.

 

Thinking about the way horses fight one another, you could develop a fighting style for this. The problem with it would be the standard rearing back and hitting with their front hooves attack exposes their vulnerable stomach. It's safe enough against each other, but a guy with a sword? I'd call it an offensive strike that is +4d6N, +1 OCV and -2 DCV. I think that's pretty much the only way they'd fight one another. Well, that and traditional fist-to-coughs.

 

Maybe call punching with their fists a regular old martial Strike.

 

When fighting against attacking animals, they must turn their back to use the very powerful rear kick. That would make a good defensive strike (using the offensive strike template), +4d6N, -1 OCV, +2 DCV.

 

"Bucking" could be a straight martial escape.

 

Some levels with move-by, move-through, and moving grab by.

 

I'd ditch the Defensive Maneuver because they'd just run from trouble they didn't want to be in.

 

I don't know, just throwing out some thoughts, now.

[Uthanar]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

I can completely see the aspects that you are talking about Sbarron. Thanks much.

 

Uthanar

[JmOz]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

Considering their movement, I disagree on the range MA Idea, but what about FMove based, maximises their greatest strengths (Speed and strength) nicely.

 

Something like

 

5 Flying Grab-Running Grab: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, 20 STR for holding on; FMove

5 Offensive Strike-Rear Leg Kick: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 6d6 Strike

5 Passing Strike - Running Blow: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, 2d6 +v/5; FMove

5 Passing Throw - Running Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, 2d6 +v/5; Target Falls; FMove

 

I also disagree with the dodge idea, they are pretty big creatures, so maybe a block instead (Maximise the potential)

[Maur]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

Thinking about the way horses fight one another' date=' you could develop a fighting style for this. The problem with it would be the standard rearing back and hitting with their front hooves attack exposes their vulnerable stomach. It's safe enough against each other, but a guy with a sword? I'd call it an offensive strike that is +4d6N, +1 OCV and -2 DCV. I think that's pretty much the only way they'd fight one another. Well, that and traditional fist-to-coughs. [/quote']

 

Horses bite and rear to kick as they lack the hands and arms that a centaur has at the front of his body. He might rear to kick, or to make it so he could drive a sword or spear down into his opponent.

 

oh, and the term is fisticuffs, not fist-to-coughs...

 

Maybe call punching with their fists a regular old martial Strike.

 

When fighting against attacking animals, they must turn their back to use the very powerful rear kick. That would make a good defensive strike (using the offensive strike template), +4d6N, -1 OCV, +2 DCV.

 

"Bucking" could be a straight martial escape.

an escape with a throw element and possibly target prone since odds are the opponent they buck off won't just be standing there on his feet afterwards.

 

Some levels with move-by, move-through, and moving grab by.

 

I'd ditch the Defensive Maneuver because they'd just run from trouble they didn't want to be in.

 

I don't know, just throwing out some thoughts, now.

[matrix3]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

Considering their movement, I disagree on the range MA Idea, but what about FMove based, maximises their greatest strengths (Speed and strength) nicely.

 

Something like

 

5 Flying Grab-Running Grab: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, 20 STR for holding on; FMove

5 Offensive Strike-Rear Leg Kick: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 6d6 Strike

5 Passing Strike - Running Blow: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, 2d6 +v/5; FMove

5 Passing Throw - Running Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, 2d6 +v/5; Target Falls; FMove

 

I also disagree with the dodge idea, they are pretty big creatures, so maybe a block instead (Maximise the potential)

 

This looks like a good start. I can't think of a good "open hand style" for centaurs, since the enemy would be down there and their hands are up here.

 

My first thought on seeing this thread was "one man cavalry." Just look at some cavalry maneuvers and duplicate them. This would involve move bys and move throughs, long weapons like lances and spears, and using the hooves to good advantage with stomps and kicks.

 

I would agree that rearing up would be a good "Offensive Strike" and would do a good deal of damage, but would dangerously expose the vitals.

 

EDIT: In Greek mythology, I believe centaurs were supposed to be the best archers this side of Artemis.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

Here is a start on a Centaur h2h art:

 

FIGHTING SKILLS

 

Centaur Brawling

5 1) Back Kick: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, HKA 1d6 +1 , Target Falls

Notes: Killing Throw

 

4 2) Buck Off: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, +15 STR vs. Grabs

Notes: Martial Escape

 

4 3) Horsepower: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, +15 STR to Shove

Notes: Shove

 

5 4) Rear Up: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, -2 DCV, +4d6 Strike

Notes: Sacrifice Strike

 

4 5) Stampede: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, -2 DCV, STR +v/5; FMove

Notes: Sacrifice Lunge

 

5 6) Whirling Body Block: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +3 DCV, Block, Abort

Notes: Defensive Block

 

27 Total Fighting Skills Cost

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

Here ya go

[Old Man]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

Did you guys NOT play Golden Axe, The Revenge of Death Adder?

[Midas]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

(re bucking as an escape maneuver)

 

an escape with a throw element and possibly target prone since odds are the opponent they buck off won't just be standing there on his feet afterwards.

 

Unless the rider is another martial artist.

 

Hmnn: Gladitorial match, centaur vs bronc buster...

 

 

Also there might be some kind of "Martial jump/move through." I'm thinking of one of the battles in the Narnia movies. The defense forms a shield wall: an attacking centaur charges, jumps up into the air, and lands on top of the defending formation. Move through? Area effect attack?

 

Midas

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

Centaurs could make for absolutely awesome martial artists, being equipped with an immense amount of mass and leverage as well as formidable natural weapons. Grappling arts should be further considered. The natural targets for a centaur to grab on a normal human sized opponent is gonna be the neck & occasionally the arms. Having something that weighs in at 2000 pounds moving at a horse speed run grabbing you and wrenching you off your feet by that appendage, all the while twisting it in a breaking maneuver and trampling the held lower body is gonna render that subject to goo pretty fast.

 

Come to think of it, I seem to recall the centaurs from Phillip Jose Farmer's World of Tiers series having a wrestling fighting style based on the Native American wrestling styles, using lots of body holds and exploiting the massive leverage to flip opponents to the ground. I suppose the more classical styled Centaurs might use many Pankration style breaks, killing blows, and heavy strikes.

 

Always keep in mind the amazing synergystic effect that martial MPA's can have. I just busted out my copy of UMA, so I might give a more detailed write up a whirl.

[Uthanar]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

MPAs? Not sure the term.

 

Talking with the player where we kinda ended up is that there would be 2-3 separate parts of the martial art that he is developing.

 

One form of it is stationary combat (this is the rear up, back kick, buck off, etc). Most of this comes from study of horse and their body and fighting style. I made the linked skill Animal Handling (Equine) and a knowledge about horses.

 

The next part of it focuses on the human body and that is going to be involving some grabs, and using the mass of the form for wrestling advantages. He didn't have the points for stuff out of here, and so he started off with a basic Choke Hold. I figure that Contortionist might be a good skill to tie to this, but not sure.

 

The final of the three is the moving martial arts. This is going to be leading to assistance with Move By/Move Through which I figure he would have and be decent at because of his form, and so it would be something that he could naturally excel in. Not sure a skill to associate with it ATM, but I haven't given these too much thought other than during game on Saturday.

 

Uthanar

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Centaur Martial Arts

 

MPA: Multiple Power Attacks

 

You can MPA Maneuvers with compatible elements; its very effective. There's a large section on MPA's in the main rule book at the start of the combat section.