Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

[TheDux]

So I have been working on a superhero team for a comic I am working on. Only problem is that the name that I want to use (really HAVE to use) is already taken by DC, though the name is a common name in literature. NOTE THAT I AM AVOIDING USING THE NAME. I just need to know a couple opinions. One, about my concept, two if you think it infringes on any sort of copyright laws, finally using the same concept AND if the name might be a problem, any alternate names?

 

So here is the concept (Italics are still in the works):

 

Ages upon ages ago for some reason when a tribal elder/shaman died all of his wisdom and knowledge passed to a child who was born the next day. After endless series of this cycle (each life taking similar course and following similar trends). Among these was King Solomon (perhaps the first in the cycle, having various ideas about this). During each age the knowledge grew, the experiences strengthened, and those born in the cycle became more and more powerful. Finally in modern age a boy is born into this cycle. As with each person in the cycle before him, he is stronger than the last. He has more knowledge and wisdom, stronger telepathic and kenetic powers, and like several before him a strong degree of powers allowing him to imbue others with more strength and increasing thier powers (effect is multiplied in Metahumans). This is in additiona ot a certain degree of clairvoyance based on his previous incarnation's experiences.

 

In one variation of my idea this is called the "Solomon Legacy". In another it is King Solomon who first identifies this trend and finds a way to hone it and "use" it more iffecently.

 

Now ever person in this cycle has similar trends and paterns in thier life. These events occure on the same day of the week in order of the week. But not nessasarily on the same day of the year. The big events being Born on a Monday, Dying on a Saturday, and being buries on a Sunday. You might have guessed that the name in question is Solomon Grundy as in the nursery rhyme

 

 

Solomon Grundy,

Born on a Monday,

Christened on Tuesday,

Married on Wednesday,

Took ill on Thursday,

Grew worse on Friday,

Died on Saturday,

Buried on Sunday.

That was the end of

Solomon Grundy.

 

 

There lies the problem. Solomon Grundy is a DC villian. Though they share very little in common other than a name and source of the name, I am afraid of any kind of copyright infringement.

 

I know I can use ANY name i want in a game, but I also want to use this character in some personal comic projects that i might be putting into print and/or online. I just want to have my bases covered.

 

So ideas about copyright issue? about the concept? Cool game power ideas? Other?

 

thanks in advance.

[Eosin]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

You'd have to speak with a copyright lawyer to get a professional opinion. My decidedly non-professional opinion would be - can you pay for a team of lawyers to defend this? If you cannot, then what is legal doesn't make any difference. DC could/would issue a C&D and if you didn't C&D they could/would file suit. You'd have to defend... meaning legal fees.

 

It rarely comes to "right in the eyes of the law," these issues are decided through "right by virtue of bankroll." Of course, they could just ignore you... which is the most likely action unless you start making scads of money. Then they'd sue.

 

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

If it helps any, both Dark Horse (End League) and DC (Sandman) have used Thor. I believe the name itself is public domain, but if your character is tall, ugly, dumb and ghastly pale, I think you have a much more significant issue.

[TheDux]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

Thor was going to be one of the examples for my case. I feel pretty confident about using the name now.

 

Thanks alot to both.

[Alibear]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

If DC has the name copyrighted, and find out about your use of that name they'll be obliged to go after you or risk losing the copyright protection.

[McCoy]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

Copyright is not the issue here, it's trade mark. Without researching it, I am fairly sure that DC Comics, a wholely owned subsidiary of AOL/Time-Warner, has trademarked Solomon Grundy as a name of their character.

 

Now if this is for a non-commercial project such as gaming with your friends, no problem. If this is for publication, even if you do have a legal right to call the character that they have more lawyers than you do, no matter how many you've got, and each one will be saying "Prove It!"

 

Again, check with your attorney, check with your publisher's attorney, consult a trademark lawyer, but I do not think you will be able to use Solomon Grundy as a title or character name. This does not preclude calling him Grundy or Solomon.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

Does anyone remember the fuss when TSR included little Nazi figures in a game (Indiana Jones, I think) and the word "Nazi" was indicated to be either copywritten or trademarked?

 

This didn't mean no one else could legally use the word "Nazi", whether in general or in a RPG. It meant no one could use the image they had created for that Nazi.

 

Captain Marvel didn't use the name "Superman", but there were intellectual property (IP) issues there. A T-shirt using a familiar paper towel logo with the phrase "Viagra - the dicker picker upper" was challenged as violating IP laws by two organizations. But the holders of copyright on "Mutiny on the Bounty" has no case against the paper towel makers.

 

Here in Edmonton, we had a mall owner who named both an indoor amusement part and a hotel, both part of the mall, "Fantasyland". The Disney folk took offense. The court's conclusion? An amusement park named Fantasyland treads on Disney's IP rights. Disney had no claim on the hotel name.

[Roth]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

Yeah, I remember that. The basic argument was that Fantasyland at West Edmonton Mall would take people away from Fantasyland at any of the Disney theme parks.

 

[sarcasm]Cause there is a big comparison there [/sarcasm]

 

Now it's named Galaxyland and has a really stupid mascot, an alien named Cosmo.

[TheDux]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

So here is what I have gathered:

 

Copyright is not the issue since names cannot be copyright, only trade marked.

 

Intellectual Property is not an issue since there is not an issue since it refers to an abstract properties of the work, and a name would be something more concrete.

 

Trademark is the issue IF the DC does in fact have the name trademarked.

 

Now this directory of trademarked names does not have a listing for Solomon Grundy. The United States Patent and Trademark Office has 1 listing for Solomon Grundy's which is a colonial men's costume store (or something of the sort) and that seems to be a "canceled" patent.

 

With this research done, and the fact that Solomon Grundy is not an original name BY DC comics but a character from a nursery rhyme James Orchard Halliwell-Phillipps in 1842.

 

From my understanding a name from legend or nursery rhymes cannot be trademarked.

 

Example: I could right a Robin Hood story (or use the name) without Disney's consent so long as he was not a fox with and little john was a bear. Other animals could infringe on IP rights.

 

How much of this is accurate? This just from the research that I have gathered.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

I'm no expert, but it sounds like you got the basics right. I'd just say, be careful anyway.

[Korvar]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

The one thing you're forgetting is that, regardless of whether DC actually has the right to sue you, they have enough lawyers to say they do, and they will be able to afford more of them than you can.

 

You're likely to be safe unless you actually produce a comic with "Solomon Grundy" on the cover. If you title the comic something else (say, "Born on Monday") you're less likely to be hammered.

 

For example (as I understand it), Marvel currently holds the trademark for "Captain Marvel". However, both DC and Marvel have characters called "Captain Marvel". Marvel can have a comic titled "Captain Marvel", while DC has to title their comics starring their Captain Marvel "Shazam!"

[McCoy]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

So here is what I have gathered:

 

Copyright is not the issue since names cannot be copyright, only trade marked.

 

Intellectual Property is not an issue since there is not an issue since it refers to an abstract properties of the work, and a name would be something more concrete.

 

Trademark is the issue IF the DC does in fact have the name trademarked.

 

Now this directory of trademarked names does not have a listing for Solomon Grundy. The United States Patent and Trademark Office has 1 listing for Solomon Grundy's which is a colonial men's costume store (or something of the sort) and that seems to be a "canceled" patent.

 

With this research done, and the fact that Solomon Grundy is not an original name BY DC comics but a character from a nursery rhyme James Orchard Halliwell-Phillipps in 1842.

 

From my understanding a name from legend or nursery rhymes cannot be trademarked.

 

Example: I could right a Robin Hood story (or use the name) without Disney's consent so long as he was not a fox with and little john was a bear. Other animals could infringe on IP rights.

 

How much of this is accurate? This just from the research that I have gathered.

 

The one thing you're forgetting is that' date=' regardless of whether DC actually [i']has[/i] the right to sue you, they have enough lawyers to say they do, and they will be able to afford more of them than you can.

Again, please check with a professional in the field, but I do believe that covers it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

Yeah, I remember that. The basic argument was that Fantasyland at West Edmonton Mall would take people away from Fantasyland at any of the Disney theme parks.

 

[sarcasm]Cause there is a big comparison there [/sarcasm]

 

I'm not sure anyone felt business would be transferred, but the fact was that Disney already had a Fantasyland (for many decades) in their own theme park(s), so Fantasyland as an amusement park attraction was associated with Disney. No Fantasyland hotel association, so no success for Disney on that front.

 

Clearly the mall thought they had a case - no one with any sense would go to court believing they're sure to lose. And they did win their case to the extent of the hotel.

[Roth]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

True enough. I just wondered why it took so long for the Mouse to sue over it. Fantasyland had been that since phase 2 opened in the 80's. They didn't sue till what... late 90's?

 

I can't remember.

 

It just struck me as odd.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

True enough. I just wondered why it took so long for the Mouse to sue over it. Fantasyland had been that since phase 2 opened in the 80's. They didn't sue till what... late 90's?

 

I can't remember.

 

It just struck me as odd.

 

It opened in 1985 and changed its name in 1995. It didn't take long after opening for Disney to object, but negotiations, discussions and the eventual court action take time.

[Roth]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

okay.. mid 90s.

 

Hey that just means that if you publish your comic you might have a 10 year run before the court date Dux.

 

[Vondy]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

Okay, here's the deal. You're right. But it doesn't matter that you're right. As soon as you use a name they have trademarked (so check to see if they do) they will sue to protect their trademark irrespective of the veracity of their case. The way the law is written they pretty much have to, and beyond that, they know most people don't have the money to take them on. C'mon, its AOL-Time-Warner. You may fight them and win, but you will have to fight them if they find out about it. And that costs money. I hope you're ready to spend it.

[Maur]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

Copyright is not the issue since names cannot be copyright' date=' only trade marked.[/quote']

 

Correct. A body of work can be copyrighted, but names are Trademarked.

 

Intellectual Property is not an issue since there is not an issue since it refers to an abstract properties of the work, and a name would be something more concrete.

 

Trademark is a form of IP, so in this instance you are incorrect to say that IP is not an issue.

 

Trademark is the issue IF the DC does in fact have the name trademarked.

 

Now this directory of trademarked names does not have a listing for Solomon Grundy. The United States Patent and Trademark Office has 1 listing for Solomon Grundy's which is a colonial men's costume store (or something of the sort) and that seems to be a "canceled" patent.

 

With this research done, and the fact that Solomon Grundy is not an original name BY DC comics but a character from a nursery rhyme James Orchard Halliwell-Phillipps in 1842.

 

From my understanding a name from legend or nursery rhymes cannot be trademarked.

 

Example: I could right a Robin Hood story (or use the name) without Disney's consent so long as he was not a fox with and little john was a bear. Other animals could infringe on IP rights.

 

How much of this is accurate? This just from the research that I have gathered.

 

Names from history with a description can be trademarked if they are unique from the historical instance. E.g. the aforementioned Robin Hood as a anthropomorphic fox or Thor as a superhero with a specific costumed look. And don't forget to check international registries.

[Maur]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

Yeah, I remember that. The basic argument was that Fantasyland at West Edmonton Mall would take people away from Fantasyland at any of the Disney theme parks.

 

[sarcasm]Cause there is a big comparison there [/sarcasm]

 

Now it's named Galaxyland and has a really stupid mascot, an alien named Cosmo.

 

Trademarks require that the holder do Due Diligence to defend it or they lose it. If they sue someone for infringement and that defendant can show that they failed to go after someone else similarly infringing (and it was known to the plaintiff they were infringing), then they have to pursue the other person first before they can proceed on the lawsuit against the current person.

 

You might find it stupid that they'd sue over this, but the law actually requires them to.

 

Intel sued a Yoga studio for creating a logo that was Yoga Inside for infringing their trademarked slogan of Intel Inside. The suit went nowhere, but it still became a matter of court record that Intel had done its due diligence (and the Yoga studio got to soak the legal fees to defend themselves).

[Roth]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

Hmm. Well when it's put like that I can understand then. A use it and protect it or lose it thing. Of course the question in my head is does it take 10 years to get to court or did Disney just ignore it for awhile for some reason.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Character for comic and game. Copyright issue?

 

Hmm. Well when it's put like that I can understand then. A use it and protect it or lose it thing. Of course the question in my head is does it take 10 years to get to court or did Disney just ignore it for awhile for some reason.

 

It took almost ten years to get to court and get a decision. That's actually pretty short compared to some cases. There would have been lots of legal exchanges before actually getting to court. Crossing international borders typically creates jurisdictional issues. If you add in appeals (I don't think the Fantasyland decision was appealed), the timeframe can extend well beyond 10 years.

 

That's one of the issues which makes legal action expensive. A lot of work, and a lot of negotiation, happens prior to the actual court date.