REC - Physical action only? Or mental as well?

[Wintermute]

I've got a character with a physical speed of 3. I have an add'l 3 speed with the 1/2 lim (only with mental actions), for a total of 6 speed.

 

Should I only get REC on physical turns? Or on any turn I have an action, physical or mental?

[OddHat]

You get rec post segment 12 at the end of each turn; your speed determines how many phases you can act within a turn. You can use a phase to take a recovery; considering the limit you're taking on your speed, I'd rule that you can't trade those extra phases for extra recoveries, but that's the GM's call.

[Wintermute]

I'm a little slow...

 

So forgive me if I'm not understanding you...

 

According to the rules, you can take a recovery as an action in any phase in which you can act. So, I can mentally act in any of my 6 phases, but can only physically act in segs 4, 8 and 12.

 

The question is: Is Recovery a Physical Action? Or can I take a recovery in ANY phase I can act, whether the extra speed was bought with a lim or not?

[McCoy]

Since you can Recover even when you are at negative STUN, Knocked Out, I would say Recovery is more about the Body than the Mind, and if you wanted to play this character in my game I would say you could only grab a Rec on the Physical phases, not the Mental ones.

 

What does your GM say?

[Wintermute]

He says Physical Segs only...

 

But I disagree. So, i'm trolling to see what Steve and the masses think and see if any of you/them see it my way...

[Trebuchet]

Since you took a -1/2 Limitation on the SPD, it's not as useful as "full" SPD. I would rule that Recovery is an action, and therefore you must still meet all rules for REC (Not taking Stun, not using END, not Holding an action, etc.) in order to qualify to take a REC in a "mental only" Phase. Since I presume your mental powers use END, that seems fair to me.

 

This kind of question is why I wouldn't allow Menton as built in 5th Edition in my campaign. It's simply too much of a hassle to figure out this kind of stuff.

[McCoy]

Re: He says Physical Segs only...

 

Originally posted by Wintermute

But I disagree. So, i'm trolling to see what Steve and the masses think and see if any of you/them see it my way...

 

Rule 1: The GM is always right.

 

Rule 2: If the GM is wrong, see Rule 1.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: He says Physical Segs only...

 

Originally posted by Wintermute

But I disagree. So, i'm trolling to see what Steve and the masses think and see if any of you/them see it my way...

 

I agree with your GM - REC brings back Stun and End. What are you doing when you recover? Breathing hard (deeeeep breaths), not exerting yourself, standing still (hence lousy DCV). You have a 3 SPD physically, so that's the speed you can recover at.

 

That's how I'd rule it.

 

You probably don't know how I'd rule trolling the masses to get someone to dispute my call...

[JMHammer]

Why did you think you applied that limitation?

 

Should I only get REC on physical turns? Or on any turn I have an action, physical or mental?

 

The Limitation you applied is pretty clear: You can only use actions with your mental powers on those "extra" phases. A Recovery action is not use of a mental power. Therefore: NO, you may not use a Recovery action during one of those limited phases.

 

But I disagree. So, i'm trolling to see what Steve and the masses think and see if any of you/them see it my way...

 

Intelligent and well-informed people do often come to different conclusions; it's what makes the world go 'round. But you're definitely being a weasel trying to use your extra speed for a purpose pretty clearly out of bounds by the definition of your applied Limitation, and a double weasel for fishing for munchkin support from players who aren't even in your game.

 

John H

 

[i meant "weasel" in the nicest way, of course. ]

[Wintermute]

squeak squeak

 

(or whatever sound a weasel makes...)

 

Perhaps...But, that's the orginal question: Is Recovery considered a Physical Action? If Mental Actions can cost END, and you can recover END via a Recovery, then it does stand to reason that one could recover END on a segment in which one could take a mental action - I can spend END but I can't get it back? This is what i'm trying to have clarified.

 

I've actually asked Mr. Long in his forum what he thinks. It doesn't specifically say (that I could find in FREd) that Recovery is a Physical action.

 

Everyone in my game is resonably new to the system. I do have a tendency to overthink these things from time to time.

 

But I question: Why can I spend END, but not recover it in the same "type" of action?

[Talon]

I'd say it's a physical action.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: squeak squeak

 

Originally posted by Wintermute

Perhaps...But, that's the orginal question: Is Recovery considered a Physical Action?

 

If the only two choices are "it's a physical action" or "it's a mental action", then I would say Recovery is a physical action.

 

Originally posted by Wintermute

If Mental Actions can cost END, and you can recover END via a Recovery, then it does stand to reason that one could recover END on a segment in which one could take a mental action - I can spend END but I can't get it back? This is what i'm trying to have clarified.

 

I've actually asked Mr. Long in his forum what he thinks. It doesn't specifically say (that I could find in FREd) that Recovery is a Physical action.

 

Of course not. That's because the game does not have "physical actions" and "mental actions". It hjas zero phase actions, half phase actions, attack actions and full phase actions. It is only the limitation you have created for your Speed that creates a differentiation between mental actions and (not physical actions but) actions which are not wholly mental actions.

 

There is a bigger issue here. In the character design process, it would be prudent to better define the limitation on your speed. ie "These are the specific actions I can take with my extra Speed", listing all powers of the character and all normal maneuvers, including recovery. As your GM, I wouldn't say "that's not a mental action", I would say "for all the things you can do, I think this limitation is only worth +1/4".

 

This also gets over such issues as whether mental powers include only your multipower of attacks which are ECV driven, or also your EC of telekinetic powers which are defined as being brainpower, but also affect the physical world. Hey, if a character with an Ego blast and no other mental powers wants speed "only to use mental powers", it will be way more limited than a 500 point eqoist who wants the same thing, but has a 10 slot multipower, a mental force field, force wall, mental powered flight - in other words, who can do virtually everything he would otherwise do on a phase purely with mental actions.

 

Normally, I see people look at Menton and say "he gets this for +1/2 - that must always be the cost". No kidding he gets +1/2 - he can do almost anything in his repertoire, so he should count himself lucky the GM is erring towards leniency. One of the only big things he does lose is that he can't (IMO) recover from being stunned or take a recovery on those bonus phases. If my only mental ability is an Ego Blast, it should be a much greater limitation (for starters, I only get a half phase since all I can do is an attack action).

 

Originally posted by Wintermute

Everyone in my game is resonably new to the system. I do have a tendency to overthink these things from time to time.

 

But I question: Why can I spend END, but not recover it in the same "type" of action?

 

No hassle - it helps to talk these issues out. But you're obscuring the issue with this "same type of action" terminology. You can spend END as an attack or movement action. You can even spend it in an Abort action. You can't attack, move or abort to a recovery. You need to take a "recovery action", and that's not a purely mental action.

[McCoy]

Re: squeak squeak

 

Originally posted by Wintermute

(or whatever sound a weasel makes...)

 

Perhaps...But, that's the orginal question: Is Recovery considered a Physical Action? If Mental Actions can cost END, and you can recover END via a Recovery, then it does stand to reason that one could recover END on a segment in which one could take a mental action - I can spend END but I can't get it back? This is what i'm trying to have clarified.

 

I've actually asked Mr. Long in his forum what he thinks. It doesn't specifically say (that I could find in FREd) that Recovery is a Physical action.

 

Everyone in my game is resonably new to the system. I do have a tendency to overthink these things from time to time.

 

But I question: Why can I spend END, but not recover it in the same "type" of action?

 

Yes, you can spend END on those phases, but not get it back.

 

Let's see if this helps. FREd, page 285, says that you can't take a Rec while you're holding your breath (without life support). Breathing, part of taking a Rec, is not a mental action.

 

If your character has flight, bought with the special effect of psionic levitation, would he be able to move on those extra phases? If he has telekinesis, would he be able to physically grab someone on those extra phases? If so, -1/2 is a little generous, this limitation is not very limiting.

 

*Is going to hate himself for suggesting this.* Is the character's mental powers in a multipower or a VPP? If so, you might see if the GM would approve a 0 END, self only, Aid or Healing to END and/or STUN as something that could be done on the extra phases. Sx would be using mental discipline to tap into normally inaccessable body reserves. Charges would be an approperate limitation on that power, and would automatically get you the 0 END.

 

Now go, and weasel no more.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Re: squeak squeak

 

Originally posted by McCoy

*Is going to hate himself for suggesting this.* Is the character's mental powers in a multipower or a VPP? If so, you might see if the GM would approve a 0 END, self only, Aid or Healing to END and/or STUN as something that could be done on the extra phases. Sx would be using mental discipline to tap into normally inaccessable body reserves. Charges would be an approperate limitation on that power, and would automatically get you the 0 END.

 

Now go, and weasel no more.

 

If you're using Charges, I'd use Healing. You won't use it to boost above starting max. anyway, you'll get out of the fade rate and Aid wouldn't have cist END anyway.

[Blue Jogger]

If you wanted to take a Recovery in a mental phase.

 

I would argue that you could, but it would only recover END. Since you have 3 physical speed and 6 mental speed, you're going to wear down END much faster and need to take recoveries more often than if you were only a 3 speed. But this is a game mechanic, one your GM may or may not approve of. Having split speeds is a big problem in Champions, one best avoided. (Really, the rules would become nightmarish if Steve had to explain whether an action was physical, mental, spiritual, reflexive, or what have you)

 

This begs the question, however, what is your character doing while taking a mental recovery? The above assumes a sort of concentrating to tap deeper into inner reserves (forcing more adranline, forcing burning energy without oxygen). If that was the case, doing this too much would cause a dice or two of STUN and possibly severe muscle cramps (minor STR loss).

[Tech]

As stated already, there are no 'mental' phases. I think what is looking to be stated is that the extra SPD 'is usuable only for Mental Powers'. This clarifies the problem. If you don't use a Mental Power on the extra SPD phase, you can't do anything else, including recover, block, dodge, etc. A mind can very often think faster than you can react and this seems to be the case, if I understand the character concept.