Legatus Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man in the handwaving vs. statting out debate, what do you think about my version of Nuclear Exploding Man? I statted him out as best as I could, but there are some difficulties in it, that might be a bit too problematic for the game mechanics: a) I did not link his powers, but I just handwave it and say they'll go off at the same time NND on Killing Attack with No Stun limitation What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man Personally I think radiation is best represented as a Drain that takes place over time. It does more than just BODY and STUN, I think -- it causes weakness, and doesn't kill instantly. EDIT: As written the Radiation Blast will do no damage, since it doesn't do STUN and isn't bought with Does BODY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man Does BODY Advantage now built in! Thanks, Vestnik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrm Ouroboros Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man Radiation sickness would be a hefty RKA NND or, probably better, something like the following: 5d6 Drain, All Physical Characteristics Simultaneously (+2), Explosion (+1/2), Mega area (1" = 1 km; +1/4), Invisible Power Effects (+1/2) (212 Active Points), Gradual Effect (One Month; - Whatever), Extra Time (One Week; - Whatever), Only Affects Living Beings (-1/2) Never would 2 points on LS: Immune to High Radiation be better spent! Life Support is a matter of being able to survive in that sort of environment -- not in a violent environment or, more clearly, not against an attack. If it's an NND against LS: Safe in High Radiation, sure you're fine. This isn't that; this is an attack. So's a nuke. The question here really is 'realistic effects or not?' Either nukes are real-and-really-dangerous (and Captain Quantum dies from radiation that causes cancer) or nukes are comic just-big-bombs (and Big Blue Boy can take one on the chin and smile). I am strongly in favor of the former and, as DC and Marvel have progressed, they have so become, too. In my campaign "After the End," humanity wiped out 98% of their Powers because the aforementioned failed to take the necessary actions and permanently stop the Earth-Shattering Bad Guys, Because We're Better Than Them. And they all died... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man The question here really is 'realistic effects or not?' Either nukes are real-and-really-dangerous (and Captain Quantum dies from radiation that causes cancer) or nukes are comic just-big-bombs (and Big Blue Boy can take one on the chin and smile). I am strongly in favor of the former and, as DC and Marvel have progressed, they have so become, too. So how would you rate the bomb that I constructed (based on Oruncrest's work) for NEM? I just used powerful attacks (KAs and EB) but no DRAIN. See the link above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man I don't think "realistic" really comes into it. If Captain Power is immune to radiation (for whatever reason), he's not going to get radiation sickness no matter what the source. Surviving the rest of the blast might be trickier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man You're right! I did not construct any long-term effects because I didn't want to handle it over such a long time of playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man I think NEM gets the point across for most games. There's not allot of characters that could take what he can dish out so he works as walking WMD. I am curious what his story purpose is? Is he a threat to be held over the PCs? He doesn't seem like a stand up fighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man I don't really plan to use him in any of my games. As said in the introduction of that thread I challenged the kids of my track and field club to invent supervillains during one of our training sessions. I just write them up as some kind of HERO System training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man I don't really plan to use him in any of my games. As said in the introduction of that thread I challenged the kids of my track and field club to invent supervillains during one of our training sessions. I just write them up as some kind of HERO System training. Oh... Sorry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man I am not sure how he should be treated in a campaign. Kill him? Since the characters don't know anything specific about him, this may blow him up. Mind Control him? Maybe, but hard to do considering his Mental Defense. He should be taken care of by good roleplaying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestnik Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man Life Support is a matter of being able to survive in that sort of environment -- not in a violent environment or' date=' more clearly, not against an attack. If it's an NND against LS: Safe in High Radiation, sure you're fine. This isn't that; this is an [i']attack[/i]. So's a nuke. Well, poisons (I'm thinking of Immunity) are inherently attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man Well' date=' poisons (I'm thinking of Immunity) are inherently attacks.[/quote'] Most NNDs are "attacks", in fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man I am not sure how he should be treated in a campaign. Kill him? Since the characters don't know anything specific about him, this may blow him up. Mind Control him? Maybe, but hard to do considering his Mental Defense. He should be taken care of by good roleplaying! You could use the rule of thumb from Invincible: "When in doubt throw them into space." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man You could use the rule of thumb from Invincible: "When in doubt throw them into space." That would make sense, but what if no one has the ability to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man Then it's time to turn to Changes-Fissionable-Materials-Into-Lead Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrm Ouroboros Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man Legatus, it's pretty well done; I'd've used AVLD (PowDef) instead of NND (LS: Radiation) on the radiation, however. LS is more for an 'high/dangerous background level' sort of thing, as compared to a violent background or attack. It's the difference between being able to survive in Chernobyl (now or inside the plant during the accident) and accepting a billion rems of hard radiation -- between surviving (being comfortable!!) at 180 degrees in the desert, compared to soaking a flamethrower to the face. I, however, went by the 'Enough' recommendation others made. Simply put, if they were there, they were killed. A prospective player is, right now, kind of trying to be someone who was 'relatively near' the nuke zone. I'm working with him on the background, but I'm requiring at least daily Regen in order to have survived 'this long', and she'll currently have a 'side effect' of being very nastily radioactive -- she shows up hard on geiger counters, kills those taking care of her within a few months due to rad poisoning, that sort of thing. Hopefully we'll get the issues ironed out. And while I do recognize that most poisons are attacks, most poisons are (or can be slash should be) built as NND -- doesn't matter how tough your skin is, once it gets inside you're pretty fragged. LS: High Radiation taking care of an atomic bomb, well -- see above. And realism does come into it at that point; 'realistic' LS:HR means you can exist in space without getting screwed over by cosmic bombardment from the sun and other sources; 'comic' LS:HR means you can sunbathe in Nuke City and as long as you can handle the blast (with them 45/45 rPD/rED and 50% resistant Damage Reductions for both) you can shrug off the fuggly nasty radiation -- because the radiation isn't being treated in a relatively realistic manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man AVLD vs Power Defense? NND vs Life Support (safe in High Radiation)? I think both is okay, as long as the effect, basically killing everybody in close and mid-range is the same, because that's what it's about. It's a nuke after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man The radiation sickness part of the blast power is an effect caused by the debilitating effects of radiation exposure that would normally by pass "conventional" defenses. If you're character is Immune to High Radiation that effect is not going to hamper him. The "shock" damage of sudden exposure might but I feel that wold be subsumed in all the other damage from the blast itself (which will likely kill them in the case long before the radiation sickness portion of the power kicks in). If the character's Sfx is "Radiation Proof Physiology" because their lives in a planet constantly bombarded by high end radiation, the exude hard radiation themselves or whatever dying of "radiation sickness" or even getting violently ill a week afterwards (if they somehow survive the initial blast) doesn't seem consistent to me. But once you start discussing extremes particularly in comic book universes. "realistic" is, IMO, a bad choice of words. A man that can explode like a nuclear device at will isn't "realistic" either. I alway felt a better word was believable or verisimilitude, do the results created feel reasonable. IMO, if a character is actually tough enough to withstand the rest of the blast then them being able to shrug off the rad part of it doesn't stretch credibility that much if they've invested in ability. LS: Immune to Heat doesn't stop at "reasonable" levels. The character is fine at 600+ degree as well 180 or even higher basically to whatever point the GM wants to call the damage dice instead of an environmental effect. It comes down to how you'd want nukes to be portrayed in the game. Are they something at least potentially survivable or the "ultimate" weapon? I don't think there's a more "realistic" approach when dealing with something so fantastic in the first place. Is walking around Mercury an attack or an environment, it's really a judgment call. So this is just my opinion, not carved in stone or absolute. I just want to make my line of reasoning clear and this is the last I'll say on the issue. I think this is issue is really aggravated by the difficulty (or more so expense it can be done) of building Total Immunity to a Specific SFX in Hero System. If there was a Power "Total Immunity to SFX (radiation in this case)" there probably wouldn't be a discussion like this. We'd be having an argument about how that power was priced and all the potential problems with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man AVLD vs Power Defense? If you're talking about the Drain version of "Radiation Sickness" it works against Power Defense by default. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man The AVLD I was talking about was a different thing. RKA AVLD applied vs Power Defense. But as you said, "realism" shouldn't be taken too far. What I wanted to do was create a blast that was as powerful as and contained most parts of a nuclear bomb. I think the version that I put up is sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man The AVLD I was talking about was a different thing. RKA AVLD applied vs Power Defense. Ah, all right, I was thinking of Vestnik's write up. Had to go and check your version of "Ted" again. In either case, I NND vs LS: High Rads is an "accurate" representation of what it does. But as you said, "realism" shouldn't be taken too far. What I wanted to do was create a blast that was as powerful as and contained most parts of a nuclear bomb. I think the version that I put up is sufficient. I agree. Nicely done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Re: Nuclear Explosion Man Had to go and check your version of "Ted" again. Who is that "Ted" again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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