Thoughts and Questions on Clinging

[bigbywolfe]

Some questions about Clinging. I have some ideas for a character, so I'll post some other thoughts, and probably more questions, later...

I was playing around in HD and ended up looking at Clinging and what Modifiers could be added to it. This lead to some questions about how certain Advantages would work and what some things can or cannot do.

 

Persistent: Powers with the Persistent Advantage ‘stay “turned on” even if the character is unconscious.’ Does this mean if a character with Persistent Clinging is knocked out while clinging to a wall/object, will they remain clinging to it? Does Clinging require effort/conscious control? If it does require conscious control, then how would I model the ability of someone who does stick to things, even when unconscious?

 

Uncontrolled: Hand in hand with the last question. ‘An Uncontrolled power can maintain itself without conscious thought from its user.’ With Uncontrolled Clinging, could a character knocked into a wall/ceiling (or thrown at/to one by an opponent/teammate) simply stick to it, or do they need do something, even though it’s ‘Uncontrolled”? If the answer to “will a character with Persistent Clinging stick to something when knocked out?” was “no”, then what if it is Persistent and Uncontrolled?

 

Other thoughts/questions:

Can a character with Persistent, Uncontrolled Clinging use Clinging on the ground? That may sound like a pointless question, but remember, Clinging comes with some Knockback Resistance built in.

 

Even with Clinging it takes 2” of movement to move 1” vertically (just like leaping). If you want to add extra running, only for calculating running “up”, how much is that limit worth? I was thinking -1.

 

How does Clinging affect “crawling on the ceiling”? Should the fact that you are hanging upside down mean you only get 1” for ever 2” of movement, even though you are not going “up”?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Thoughts and Questions on Clinging

 

This is how I do it.

 

Persistent: Powers with the Persistent Advantage ‘stay “turned on” even if the character is unconscious.’ Does this mean if a character with Persistent Clinging is knocked out while clinging to a wall/object' date=' will they remain clinging to it? Does Clinging require effort/conscious control? If it does require conscious control, then how would I model the ability of someone who does stick to things, even when unconscious?[/quote']

 

Generally I might allow a clinging character to stay put when Knocked Out (definitely when Stunned), but depending on the SFX I might allow significant impacts or forces to pull them loose without the resistance of their full Str. Definitely once they are fully unconscious (in the <-10 Stun range where they don't take full Recoveries) I would allow them to be jarred lose pretty easily.

 

Uncontrolled: Hand in hand with the last question. ‘An Uncontrolled power can maintain itself without conscious thought from its user.’ With Uncontrolled Clinging' date=' could a character knocked into a wall/ceiling (or thrown at/to one by an opponent/teammate) simply stick to it, or do they need [i']do[/i] something, even though it’s ‘Uncontrolled”? If the answer to “will a character with Persistent Clinging stick to something when knocked out?” was “no”, then what if it is Persistent and Uncontrolled?

 

I think an Uncontrolled Clinging would be kind of a funny thing. I imagine it like a climbing harness the character ties himself to the side of a building with--like a dog on one of those moving leash zip line thingies (whatever they are called). I suppose I'd give the character full Str even if fully unconscious, but (s)he'd probably have to work to deactivate it consciously (detach the climbing harness from the lines, so to speak) even in normal conditions.

 

Can a character with Persistent' date=' Uncontrolled Clinging use Clinging on the ground? That may sound like a pointless question, but remember, Clinging comes with some Knockback Resistance built in. [/quote']

 

Hmm. I'm not sure why not. That's an interesting one. Certainly I'd make a character fulfil whatever requirements the power has (esp. Limitations) to use it. I'd come up with some other interesting drawbacks I'm sure. Jumping wouldn't work very well, and I might impose more penalty than usual for going around/over uneven terrain or obstacles. Might pose an interesting problem when trying to unexpectedly Dive for Cover or something.

 

Even with Clinging it takes 2” of movement to move 1” vertically (just like leaping). If you want to add extra running' date=' only for calculating running “up”, how much is that limit worth? I was thinking -1.[/quote']

 

Sounds about right, I suppose. Same kind of thing as buying Flight just to move upward. Same decreased movement distance involved.

 

How does Clinging affect “crawling on the ceiling”? Should the fact that you are hanging upside down mean you only get 1” for ever 2” of movement' date=' even though you are not going “up”?[/quote']

 

Generally I'd say moving across a ceiling is horizontal movement. No upwards penalty (unless maybe it is slanted sharply). Might depend a bit on SFX and whatever Limitations are applied to the power.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Thoughts and Questions on Clinging

 

Some questions about Clinging. I have some ideas for a character' date=' so I'll post some other thoughts, and probably more questions, later...[/font']

I was playing around in HD and ended up looking at Clinging and what Modifiers could be added to it. This lead to some questions about how certain Advantages would work and what some things can or cannot do.

 

Persistent: Powers with the Persistent Advantage ‘stay “turned on” even if the character is unconscious.’ Does this mean if a character with Persistent Clinging is knocked out while clinging to a wall/object, will they remain clinging to it?

Yes.

Does Clinging require effort/conscious control? If it does require conscious control' date=' then how would I model the ability of someone who does stick to things, even when unconscious?[/quote']

Always On Damage Shield of Clinging.

 

Uncontrolled: Hand in hand with the last question. ‘An Uncontrolled power can maintain itself without conscious thought from its user.’ With Uncontrolled Clinging' date=' could a character knocked into a wall/ceiling (or thrown at/to one by an opponent/teammate) simply stick to it, or do they need [i']do[/i] something, even though it’s ‘Uncontrolled”?

Clinging has to have it's "source" defined as part of it's SFX. Usually it's the hands & feet. But whatever part of the body it's associated with, I'd likely have the character make an Acrobatics Roll (or a DEX Roll w/ a minor penalty) to get the source parts "in position" to use the Uncontrolled Clinging.

Full Body Clinging is better done as a Damage Shield, and then it woudn't matter what part touched the wall/ceiling.

Other thoughts/questions:

Can a character with Persistent, Uncontrolled Clinging use Clinging on the ground? That may sound like a pointless question, but remember, Clinging comes with some Knockback Resistance built in.

Yes.

Even with Clinging it takes 2” of movement to move 1” vertically (just like leaping). If you want to add extra running' date=' only for calculating running “up”, how much is that limit worth? I was thinking -1.[/quote']

I think that -1 is the standard value for the Limitation "Only To Overcome Gravity".

 

How does Clinging affect “crawling on the ceiling”? Should the fact that you are hanging upside down mean you only get 1” for ever 2” of movement' date=' even though you are not going “up”?[/font']

 

Being inverted doesn't automatically penalize horizontal movement -- unless you want to house rule that it does, or the player takes a Limitation saying that his character's movement is reduced in that situation.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Thoughts and Questions on Clinging

 

Persistent clinging continues to cling even if you are KO'd, and clinging to the ground is a perfectly acceptable way to reduce KB.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Thoughts and Questions on Clinging

 

In another thread I saw an advantage I had not run into before for movement powers. +1/2 No Gravity Penalty (I believe this Advantage comes from Ninja Hero, but I am uncertain). It was used on Leaping, but the penalty for vertical movement when Clinging is the same as the one used for Leaping. This could potentially make being able to use your full movement with clinging cheaper than buying more running and then limiting it. However, if this Advantage would be allowed, would you apply it to your Clinging or to your Running?

 

15 Clinging (normal STR) (+1/2 for No Gravity Penalty)

Total Points 15

 

10 Clinging (normal STR)

6 “No Gravity Penalty” +1/2 as a Naked Advantage on Running (6”, 12 Active Points worth)

Total Points 16

 

10 Clinging (normal STR)

6 Running +6" (12" total) (12 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Only for calculating 1/2 distance for verticle movement.; -1)

Total Points 16

 

Using only the 6” of base running, applying the “No Gravity Penalty” to Clinging is slightly cheaper than applying it to the Running and cheaper than buying more running and then limiting it. The difference in points increases the more Running you buy, though buying extra STR for your Clinging changes the balance in the other direction.

 

So, what do you think? Is the +1/2 No Gravity Penalty applicable to vertical movement in this case, and if so, does it apply to the Clinging or the Running? Or am I making this overly complicated?

[SteveZilla]

Re: Thoughts and Questions on Clinging

 

In another thread I saw an advantage I had not run into before for movement powers. +1/2 No Gravity Penalty (I believe this Advantage comes from Ninja Hero, but I am uncertain). It was used on Leaping, but the penalty for vertical movement when Clinging is the same as the one used for Leaping. This could potentially make being able to use your full movement with clinging cheaper than buying more running and then limiting it. However, if this Advantage would be allowed, would you apply it to your Clinging or to your Running?

 

15 Clinging (normal STR) (+1/2 for No Gravity Penalty)

Total Points 15

 

10 Clinging (normal STR)

6 “No Gravity Penalty” +1/2 as a Naked Advantage on Running (6”, 12 Active Points worth)

Total Points 16

 

10 Clinging (normal STR)

6 Running +6" (12" total) (12 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Only for calculating 1/2 distance for verticle movement.; -1)

Total Points 16

 

Using only the 6” of base running, applying the “No Gravity Penalty” to Clinging is slightly cheaper than applying it to the Running and cheaper than buying more running and then limiting it. The difference in points increases the more Running you buy, though buying extra STR for your Clinging changes the balance in the other direction.

 

So, what do you think? Is the +1/2 No Gravity Penalty applicable to vertical movement in this case, and if so, does it apply to the Clinging or the Running? Or am I making this overly complicated?

 

Attempting to apply No Gravity Penalty to Clinging is pointless, since Clinging *has no* gravity penalty to begin with. It makes about as much sense (IMO) as saying "No Turn Mode on my Force Field". It must be applied to the Movement Power (possibly then Limited by linking the Advantage to Clinging).

[ghost-angel]

Re: Thoughts and Questions on Clinging

 

No Gravity Penalty (Advantage) Ultimate Speedster p29; Character Creation Handbook p141

 

The advantage is specifically for Movement Powers. Clinging is a Standard Power.

You must buy it on Running if you want to apply it to movement while Clinging is Active.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Thoughts and Questions on Clinging

 

Gotchya. I guess my thinking was adding no gravity penalty (or “vertical movement” penalty) to a form of movement that couldn’t move vertically anyway didn’t make much sense either.

 

Anyway, which would you guys suggest then; buying the extra running and limiting it or adding the not gravity to your regular running?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Thoughts and Questions on Clinging

 

Gotchya. I guess my thinking was adding no gravity penalty (or “vertical movement” penalty) to a form of movement that couldn’t move vertically anyway didn’t make much sense either.

 

Anyway, which would you guys suggest then; buying the extra running and limiting it or adding the not gravity to your regular running?

 

I would buy the No Gravity Penalty separately as a single Naked Advantage* to whatever level of Running you want it to work with and then apply the Linked (to Clinging) Limitation to it.

 

*If using Hero Designer you'll probably want to build this as a Custom Power that then gets the Linked Limitation.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Thoughts and Questions on Clinging

 

*If using Hero Designer you'll probably want to build this as a Custom Power that then gets the Linked Limitation.

 

Why would you do that? Just add the Limitation straight to the Naked Advantage.

 

Naked Advantage is an Instant Costs END Power in and of itself. It can take Advantages and Limitations like any other Power.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Thoughts and Questions on Clinging

 

Why would you do that? Just add the Limitation straight to the Naked Advantage.

 

Naked Advantage is an Instant Costs END Power in and of itself. It can take Advantages and Limitations like any other Power.

 

 

I was only thinking of that approach because I had first considered just buying Running 0" as a Power just for adding the Advantage and Limitations (but it ends up screwing with the cost of any 'base' running as well).

 

Is a true 'Naked Advantage' actually necessary in this case? (That is, requiring its own separate application of Reduced END from the base power it's applied to).

[ghost-angel]

Re: Thoughts and Questions on Clinging

 

Depends on how you envision the whole she-bang working. If the No-Gravity Adv. is Linked, you're going to want a Naked Adv. Power - if you Link your Running (w/ No Grav Penalty) then you can't use Running unless Clinging.

 

If there's no Linked aspect, then it just depends on if you want to do it to avoid paying Endurance Costs of the Advantage when you're not Clinging.

[薔薇語]

Re: Thoughts and Questions on Clinging

 

Persistent: Powers with the Persistent Advantage ‘stay “turned on” even if the character is unconscious.’ Does this mean if a character with Persistent Clinging is knocked out while clinging to a wall/object' date=' will they remain clinging to it? Does Clinging require effort/conscious control? If it does require conscious control, then how would I model the ability of someone who does stick to things, even when unconscious?[/font']

 

I hate it when people are persistent in their clinginess. I mean just let go already!

 

This was your humor injected moment brought to you by,

La Rose.