Ultimate Suppresser

[davethebrave]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

I think the issue is that different people have different ideas of what constitutes a 'Superhero'. For some it may be a single power, maybe 2, possibly with harsh Limitations (the Teen champions model). Others don't consider a character 'super' unless he has a 1000 pt VPP and can defend the world from alien invasion single handed (Galactic Champions model). Most are somewhere in the middle.

 

Your character may have to in the former category for a while, until he/she builds up some experience. Try not thinking 'Ultimate' anything but instead think 'Suppress' with a special effect that will allow them to one day work up to 'Ultimate' level as they spend XP on it.

 

"Hey look I just worked out how to Suppress other types of Electricity based powers" ... "Hey look I just worked out how to suppress more than one electricity based power at a time",... (many years later)... "You do realise that I can remove all of your powers, and I'm talking to your entire Skrull Armada, without breaking a sweat."

 

Ok, so here's what I did. Tell me how it looks.

 

VPP 36 base + 27 control cost, limited class of powers (suppress only) -1, Cosmic +2, 90 active points. Real Cost: 63 points

Suppress 2d6, Reduced Endurance (END 0 +1/2, haven't decided what the common recharge will be just yet), Continuous (+1) Real Cost would be 25, fits into the VPP fine.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Sidestepping the how-to-build-it debate for a moment, does power suppression really fit as a super-hero power-set?

 

Would anyone really want to play a character like the Haitian from Heroes?

 

His power suppression abilities are only relevant when dealing with someone else with powers. If faced with agents or any other non-powered threatening situation he is just a highly trained normal. He just doesn't seem like much of a hero to me.

 

HM

[davethebrave]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Sidestepping the how-to-build-it debate for a moment' date=' does power suppression really fit as a super-[u']hero[/u] power-set?

 

Would anyone really want to play a character like the Haitian from Heroes?

 

His power suppression abilities are only relevant when dealing with someone else with powers. If faced with agents or any other non-powered threatening situation he is just a highly trained normal. He just doesn't seem like much of a hero to me.

 

HM

Yeah, that's why I want him to be viable outside of the power, mix it up with some martial arts and/or guns, bump his stats, etc. The rest of the group has more utilitarian powers.

[Zed-F]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Huh. I thought 75 was low for a powered character. My impression was that 125 was the high end for heroes' date=' and just under low end for superheroes. So you'd recommend not taking a power at all with 125 points?[/quote']

 

A standard heroic-level normal (think action hero, low-level D&D character, etc.) is built on 75 base + 75 disadvantages for a total of 150.

 

A higher powered action hero with superskills or a mid-level D&D character might be built on 100+100 (total 200 points.)

 

A low-powered superhero (think Daredevil, Cloak & Dagger, etc.) would be 250 points at the start of their career. That's 150 base + 100 disads.

 

An average superhero at the start of his career, or a low-powered one with a significant amount of experience, would be a 350-point character (200+150.)

 

 

 

So, if your character is a total of 125 points, and he's playing in a superheroic game, it's not your usual superheroic game. Maybe it's a joke game where the characters are supposed to be only barely better than normals. (I've seen a 25+25 superhero game like that.) Maybe it's supposed to be that the characters are mostly normal but have one signature superpower. Maybe it's something else.

 

But with 125 points you probably shouldn't be thinking about taking a VPP. 2d6 suppress isn't really enough to justify spending that kind of points on it. Assuming you don't have to pay points for equipment (at 125 points you usually don't) then I'd say you really should be thinking at a multipower with some limitations on it rather than a VPP. At least that way you might be able to afford enough active points in the power to be worth something.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

*cough* I'd really be disinclined to use "Cloak" and "low powered" in the same sentence, ever. . .

 

Anyway, I'd ask your GM, its possible *he* is confused over what the point benchmarks are. Could be he's saying "125 points" because he doesn't realize that disadvantages *add* to that total.

[Zed-F]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

When he first started out I don't recall him being that powerful... I thought he got more powerful as he went along. But I could be mistaken.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

I think its more "he didn't know all the tricks he could do." He was still basically a sentient hole into the Darkforce. I'm pretty sure he was still in the "I am only street level in the sense that I walk on it" range guys like Spider-man and Ghost Rider are in, though.

[JmOz]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

A standard heroic-level normal (think action hero, low-level D&D character, etc.) is built on 75 base + 75 disadvantages for a total of 150.

 

A higher powered action hero with superskills or a mid-level D&D character might be built on 100+100 (total 200 points.)

 

A low-powered superhero (think Daredevil, Cloak & Dagger, etc.) would be 250 points at the start of their career. That's 150 base + 100 disads.

 

An average superhero at the start of his career, or a low-powered one with a significant amount of experience, would be a 350-point character (200+150.)

 

 

 

So, if your character is a total of 125 points, and he's playing in a superheroic game, it's not your usual superheroic game. Maybe it's a joke game where the characters are supposed to be only barely better than normals. (I've seen a 25+25 superhero game like that.) Maybe it's supposed to be that the characters are mostly normal but have one signature superpower. Maybe it's something else.

 

But with 125 points you probably shouldn't be thinking about taking a VPP. 2d6 suppress isn't really enough to justify spending that kind of points on it. Assuming you don't have to pay points for equipment (at 125 points you usually don't) then I'd say you really should be thinking at a multipower with some limitations on it rather than a VPP. At least that way you might be able to afford enough active points in the power to be worth something.

 

A few things, IME 75+75 is a mid to high level D&D character, with 25+25 being about the starting level.

 

Those ranges you give would be the characters when they were first starting not how they have developed...Hell I have seen a great write up for a Superman on 250 points that is based on Action comics 1 (or so...it might have been superman #1 from a couple years later)

[davethebrave]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

A standard heroic-level normal (think action hero, low-level D&D character, etc.) is built on 75 base + 75 disadvantages for a total of 150.

 

A higher powered action hero with superskills or a mid-level D&D character might be built on 100+100 (total 200 points.)

 

A low-powered superhero (think Daredevil, Cloak & Dagger, etc.) would be 250 points at the start of their career. That's 150 base + 100 disads.

 

An average superhero at the start of his career, or a low-powered one with a significant amount of experience, would be a 350-point character (200+150.)

 

 

 

So, if your character is a total of 125 points, and he's playing in a superheroic game, it's not your usual superheroic game. Maybe it's a joke game where the characters are supposed to be only barely better than normals. (I've seen a 25+25 superhero game like that.) Maybe it's supposed to be that the characters are mostly normal but have one signature superpower. Maybe it's something else.

 

But with 125 points you probably shouldn't be thinking about taking a VPP. 2d6 suppress isn't really enough to justify spending that kind of points on it. Assuming you don't have to pay points for equipment (at 125 points you usually don't) then I'd say you really should be thinking at a multipower with some limitations on it rather than a VPP. At least that way you might be able to afford enough active points in the power to be worth something.

 

Weird. Page 75 of the core book recommends 15-50 active points for 75 point heroes. 50 points worth of powers sounds pretty heroic to me. I think we're operating on different definitions. If I have 125 points, that is (recommended by the book) 25-70 points recommended to spend on powers. That's not "normal" to me. If someone can make a 1d6 ball of ice fly out of their palm, that sounds like a hero, not a "joke" campaign. If the foes match the power level, and then scale as it goes up (as I imagine my game will do), then eventually they will be superheroes. To start off though, they're just heroes, making a name for themselves.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Regardless, I was more or less wanting to know whether the build I made made any sense for a general-purpose (i.e. multiple powers and power types) suppress-based character. I wasn't thinking The Haitian when I made him, but now that I am, a goal might be for the power to function in a radius around him, like The Haitian's. I don't really want the memory erasure powers, but the suppression model of The Haitian is a really good end-goal for the evolution of his powers. That's why I wanted to start off with a weak 2d6 VPP, because the idea is that as I earn more exp, it'll become more powerful.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Um, you do realize a 1d6 iceball is absolutely useless, doing less damage than the punch of an absolutely untrained individual of average strength?

[davethebrave]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Um' date=' you do realize a 1d6 iceball is absolutely useless, doing less damage than the punch of an absolutely untrained individual of average strength?[/quote']

 

It's still a ball of freakin' ice! I don't care if it hurts less than a hit to the jaw, if someone threw a ball of ice at me out of thin air, I'd be much more intimidated if someone did that to me than if they socked me. Anyway, again, it's an off topic point. I define the heroic aspect as a power, no matter how small, that evolves over time as the hero masters his power. You define it as power right out of the gate. Let's just leave it at that, since it isn't the topic of this thread.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

It may not be the topic of the thread, but it is a legitimate point. A Suppress power with no advantages might be workable in that low power of a campaign, but will be very limited as to what it can do. A Suppress VPP might be useful, but is going to be extremely weak and eat up most of your points.

 

Oh, and 1d6 of Normal Damage (unless you meant 1d6k) is going to be useless in most non-powered games. That power wouldn't scare people in a 50 point Horror campaign, let alone in a world where supers exist (even extremely low powered supers).

[davethebrave]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

It may not be the topic of the thread' date=' but it is a legitimate point. A Suppress power with no advantages might be workable in that low power of a campaign, but will be very limited as to what it can do. A Suppress VPP [i']might[/i] be useful, but is going to be extremely weak and eat up most of your points.

 

Oh, and 1d6 of Normal Damage (unless you meant 1d6k) is going to be useless in most non-powered games. That power wouldn't scare people in a 50 point Horror campaign, let alone in a world where supers exist (even extremely low powered supers).

 

Well, assume we're talking about a game where we're the first generation of powered people. If an iceball did 0 damage, it'd still be a ball of frickin' ice generated out of thin air in front of someone's hand and launched somewhere. Even if it was someone launching a bunch of 'em at a wall, that'd still strike a bit of awe into me. Or, I'd think it was some sort of trick, but one that looked really cool.

Regardless, that's about feel for me, and story and fluff. I know I want the Suppress power, because regardless of the mechanical advantage to it, the RP is more important to me, and the backstory, personality and direction for this character are all based around the idea of Suppressing powers. However, this thread is about crunch and mechanics, and if it's at all relevant, it's a campaign where all the characters have 125 points to start (and there is a 90 active point limit). So if that's low-powered, that's low-powered. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that my character will earn experience and slowly evolve his power, same as any other character, as the games gets more difficult, and the foes ramp up from petty criminals to supers themselves. So before fighting supers, what (non-power) sort of stuff would I buy with the excess points to make him at least decent at helping the group pick off thugs? Gun skills, martial arts, skills...I'm new to the system, so I'm not sure, after taking the Suppress power, what I'd give him. Not sure how to build it.

[Karma]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Oh, and 1d6 of Normal Damage (unless you meant 1d6k) is going to be useless in most non-powered games. That power wouldn't scare people in a 50 point Horror campaign, let alone in a world where supers exist (even extremely low powered supers).

 

I think we need a definition of what a superpower is: Something that a normal human cannot do. True the ability to create snowballs out of thin air is not an impressive superpower (compared to what most 'superheroes' have) and in the 'Wild-cards' universe would probably be classed as a 'deuce power', but it is a superpower.

 

As for scaring people: True, if you were silly enough to say 'This is my only power, quake before me' most thugs would turn around and shoot you. If however you called it a 'warning shot' then most thugs (and possible some of the stupider super-villains (esp. the flame based ones) are going to try running and may (if they are really cowardly and stupid) surrender before they realized your warning shot was the whole of your powers. It aint how powerful you are, it's how you work it. See in worlds where supers exist people tend to lump all 'superhumans' together as, well, superhuman and someone who can throw 'harmless' snowballs as 'warnings' may be able to freeze your heart or something similar, do you want to test them?

 

Really I think people have become a little jaded about what constitutes a superhuman. If someone created snow out of nothing in front of me I'd want to know what the trick was and if I found out there wasn't one I'd be bloody impressed.

[davethebrave]

Re: Ultimate Suppresser

 

Karma, you said a mouthful! That's exactly where my mind is on this.