Slowing down Character advancement

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Slowing down Character advancement

 

One problem with character advancement by XP is that the GM has to keep updating recurring NPCs' date=' or decide that they are going to stay put i.e. that the PCs will become more potent than old enemies.[/quote']

 

Neither result is especially satisfying. Either those old nemeses quickly become useless (and must be replaced with more powerful foes who were unheard of before you got all that xp), or they grow at the same pace, despite being in prison while the PC's were out earning xp.

[Vondy]

Re: Slowing down Character advancement

 

Personally, I prefer horizontal to vertical growth. Its easier to sustain an ongoing campaign and to focus on story and character rewards if characters add breath in their skill concentrations, perks, and assorted power-tricks and abilities. They can become more effective without pushing the power curve and creating an arms race. For a game where vertical growth is the theme (the apprentice must become the master, or a farmgirl must become a warrior then a paladin) its a great approach. But that's not the theme of every narrative structure, which is something RPGs have never really acknowledged. Current XP systems impose a thematic drive that can be disruptive for some games/styles. A lot of very interesting stories revolve around characters whose power levels don't change much, even if their circumstances, goals, and points of views have changed. And sometimes what's learned (I must master dragon fist to defeat preying lotus block) is a one time deal. It was important for that story. There's nothing wrong with preferring vertical growth oriented story arcs, but unless there is a cap the character will eventually break the curve and need to be retired. As such, horizontal arcs make me happier.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Slowing down Character advancement

 

I apparently prefer horizontal growth: I must take more exercise.

 

**Gives Tasha 10000 free XP to build the perfect character**

 

XP should be an option not an addiction. There are real, viable alternatives. Characters can change - and change a lot - but they should not have to and should not be punished for not changing (although I can think of lots of other reasons for punishing them).

 

I think that there is no one right way to do XP. What has to happen though is that the characters are enjoyable to play and the GM doesn't have to work harder than necessary.

 

**Runs away before Vondy realises it was his 10000 XP Sean gave to Tasha**

[Tasha]

Re: Slowing down Character advancement

 

I apparently prefer horizontal growth: I must take more exercise.

 

**Gives Tasha 10000 free XP to build the perfect character**

 

XP should be an option not an addiction. There are real, viable alternatives. Characters can change - and change a lot - but they should not have to and should not be punished for not changing (although I can think of lots of other reasons for punishing them).

 

I think that there is no one right way to do XP. What has to happen though is that the characters are enjoyable to play and the GM doesn't have to work harder than necessary.

 

**Runs away before Vondy realises it was his 10000 XP Sean gave to Tasha**

 

LOL

 

Yeah, I have never played in a game where the GM trusted us enough to give us enough points to build the characters we want (I have run such a game and had a ton of fun).

 

Like Vondy, I believe in horizontal advancement. ie getting better at my skills etc.

 

I was talking about buying Disads off because sometimes in a game, you get to the point where the government trusts you to not watch you anymore, or you have defeated your nemesis in such a way that it really doesn't make sense for them to hunt you any more. Perhaps my character has been working on better shielding on her armor so she isn't succeptable to purple argonite anymore. I may have learned that I am not completely unbeatable and need to buy down my Overconfidence.

 

Yes some of those could be morphed into other disads, but sometimes it just makes sense to buy them off.

 

Also, I have yet to have a character writeup that completely fits the campaign. Some skill or power just doesn't work or I plain forgot to include something. Now I usually do a complete rewrite after the 2nd game or so if I have to. Sometimes it becomes clear that you just plain forgot certain skills ie my Brownshirt forgot to purchase CK Brownshirt Armed forces and PS Soldier. I plan on using my precious XP on filling in the gap on something that I forgot to purchase. If I didn't have any Xp or it was fairly rare, I would feel like I would have to save those XP for something more important.

 

CourtFool, my post wasn't completly directed at you. it was more about rebutting Sean's post.

 

Sorry about my tone, I'll keep it more civil

 

Tasha

[Sean Waters]

Re: Slowing down Character advancement

 

LOL

 

.................... because sometimes in a game, you get to the point where the government trusts you to not watch you anymore.......................

 

WHAT?

 

You might - might, mind you - get to the point where the government is SO worried about you that they get more subtle about their surveillance, but that is the best you can hope for. Call me Mr Paranoid, but...

 

CourtFool, my post wasn't completly directed at you. it was more about rebutting Sean's post.

 

Sorry about my tone, I'll keep it more civil

 

Tasha

 

Why is it that civil wars tend to be the most vicious and unpleasant? Hmm...anyway, you can rebutt me anytime you like. I could do with a new butt.

[jpburklow]

Re: Slowing down Character advancement

 

The common benchmark is D&D' date=' so let's look there. How many sessions to level up, and what do you get when you level up?[b'] 5 sessions seems a lot given only a few challenging encounters are required to level up[/b]. If the characters gain, say, 2 levels in 5 sessions, they have gained enhancements to their skills (skill points twice), better ability to withstand damage (more hit points, improved saving throws), new special abilities (more spells, character abilities, maybe a Feat or second class/prestige class), improved chances to hit (base attack bonus), possibly another attack (from increases base attack bonus) and maybe a stat point (every four levels). That also seems like a lot of change in a short period of time.

(emphasis added by me)

 

I totally agree, and that's why I've never played in a 3ed. D&D game. I'm a bit of an old school, 1ed. AD&D grognard (since 1981). In my D&D campaigns (player or DM), we never gained a level in quicker than 4 or 5 adventures and never gained ability points and rarely used non-weapon prof.

 

Still, I do love HERO for the dimension it lends to the character creation process and, as a class-less system, PCs are not railroaded into a set progression. It's open-ended and very nicely balanced for virtually all power levels of play.

[Greywind]

Re: Slowing down Character advancement

 

My players tend to spend their points as fast as I give them.

[jye42]

Re: Slowing down Character advancement

 

I have always felt that the no. of points given should vary based on the "feel" of the game and the power level. if the characters are 25/25 then 1-2 points is alot if the characters are 200/150 then 1-2 points is barly advancment at all. in standard superheroic i tend to give what the book says. ususally ends up being 2-3 points per character then ill somtimes give a character a perk based on story progression. such as contacts and favours, occasionally other things.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Slowing down Character advancement

 

I've found that the amount of XP distributed varies directly with how much alcohol my players offer me

[CourtFool]

Re: Slowing down Character advancement

 

Sorry about my tone' date=' I'll keep it more civil.[/quote']

 

No harm. No foul. I am sure my tone started it.

 

Yeah' date=' I have never played in a game where the GM trusted us enough to give us enough points to build the characters we want (I have run such a game and had a ton of fun).[/quote']

 

I feel you there. As I said, I often run very high point campaigns. I have also frequently considered running a Pointless Champions campaign where we do not bother with piddley Character Points. Just let the players create the character they want.

 

I was talking about buying Disads off because sometimes in a game' date=' you get to the point where the government trusts you to not watch you anymore, or you have defeated your nemesis in such a way that it really doesn't make sense for them to hunt you any more.[/quote']

 

I am cool with buying off Disadvantages if it makes sense. Hell, I am cool with buying off Disadvantages even if it does not make sense. As a GM, I feel it is the player's character and they can do what they want with them.

 

If I were to run a campaign where I did not give out XP, I would consider allowing a character to drop a Disadvantage if it had been played out in game. Obviously, I would consider balance issues with the other characters, but generally, I am very lenient.

 

Also' date=' I have yet to have a character writeup that completely fits the campaign.[/quote']

 

I pretty much allow character re-writes whenever a player requests one. As I said, it is their character. I want them to be happy with it. I have been lucky no one has ever abused this generosity. At the most I think I have had maybe two re-writes during a campaign. Usually at the very beginning as players get use to the campaign.