so confused

[Willis]

I've been looking at the core book for a day or so now, and reading these forums. I've never played hero and have no one in my town that has played either. does anyone have any advice on learning the system? it's a bit confusing to me right now, so any advice would be appreciated. I keep seeing abbreviations for things, like until, and fred, but I have no idea what those are or if they'd be helpful. so if anyone has anything helpful for me, I'm all ears.....er, eyes...

 

thanks

 

Willis

[pinecone]

Dude, the best way is as in all things ,start small and go from there....In hero the hard parts are combat (getting up to speed) and ballencing out the huge number of options. I suggest trying some practice combats using the sample characters...then try to make a very simple character such as Rhino from marvel or a big hulking barbarian for fantasy or a biker if playing modern action hero....then practice combat with your creation and notice how you like or hate things...then you can try running a adventure with afairly good idea of whats up and know what to avoid because it bugs ya...Good luck and welcome....Oh, Fred is the nickname for Fifth edition and Untill is a Super agent group that is part of the UN....

[Nightshade]

We do seem to have our our vocabulary, here, don't we?

 

Fred (FREd, FRED) is the book you were referencing. The 4th edition book was rather large (as well) and blue, so everyone called it the BBB for Big Blue Book. Well, this one is Black, but we couldn't call it the the Big Black Book (BBB) because people would get confused. Finally, during discussion, Mr. Steve Long piped up and said "You can call it Fred for all I care, as long as you buy it." So, Fred stuck.

 

UNTIL is a group in the Champions Universe. Recently, HERO put out a book called the UNTIL Superpowers Database (called here the USD). This is a book of prebuilt powers and options for these powers to make it easier to create superhero characters.

 

My suggestion to learning this system is the following:

 

Pick up the 5th Edition book and read through it, but not all at once. Just try to understand the terminology and how you would apply all of the stuff to your game.

 

Pick up the USD. This is a wonderful book that gives solid examples of how to create powers using the system, which is very likely the most complicated part of this thing. Try to figure out what they are talking about in that book.

 

Now, go back and read Fred. As you are doing so, if you think of an interesting character, make it. If it makes no sense, that's fine. Just try to become comfortable with the rules.

 

During this whole process, come to any of the boards and ask questions. If you don't understand some aspect of a power, framework, skill, whatever, just ask. We're very friendly here and love to discuss (debate, wrangle, cajol *ahem*) things like this. I'm sure that just by reading the forums, you see that.

 

By the way, WELCOME TO THE HERO DISCUSSION BOARDS.

 

I hope you enjoy your stay. Let us know if you need anything else.

 

Nightshade

[Nightshade]

By the way, what genre do you like to play in? That might help as well.

 

Nightshade

[Pseudo Nymh]

You might do better to skip the powers on the first pass through. They're by far the most complicated part. Get familiar with skills and combat, then create a couple of characters (say...25+25). Once you're comfortable, start reading through the powers, starting with the ones you like. There's no pressure to know everything.

 

You might also take a character from another source and try to stat them (say, Aragorn from Lord of the Rings, or a character from a video game). This is a good excersize in learning to operate the system.

 

And welcome!

[lemming]

Well, the first thing you want to do is enroll in a Math, CIS, or Physics program...

 

Don't let the math scare you. You could always pick up the character program (Hero Designer) to do all the hard parts.

 

I beleive most of the genre books have good information on how to design characters.

 

And start off with simple characters. You can always make them more complex once you know the system. And don't be afraid to do things wrong. If it's fun, you're doing it right.

[Pseudo Nymh]

Originally posted by lemming

If it's fun, you're doing it right.

 

This is the best advice anyone could give on this thread.

[Lord Liaden]

Welcome, Willis! I can completely understand your reaction. The Fifth Edition rulebook can be intimidating to a newcomer. You've already been given some good advice on this thread. What I would add is that there are resources available to you to help you understand some of the basic system concepts and terms.

 

If you haven't done so already, I'd suggest you start by going over the chapter in the Rulebook, "Introduction to the HERO System," pp. 2-10. That provides some basic explanations, as well as a glossary of commonly-used terms and abbreviations. Next you might try the FAQs link at the top of this page, which has among other things detailed answers to many common "How does this work?" and "How do I do so-and-so?" questions. That may help you get a handle on how to translate what you want into system terms. You can access the relevant sections of the FAQ directly from here:

http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/workingherosystem.htm

 

After that, you might get some use out of "The HERO System Genre by Genre," a PDF file available via the "Free Stuff" link up above. That explains how to run games in different genres (fantasy, sci-fi, etc.) using the HERO System, and provides several pregenerated sample items, including technology, spells, and characters for each genre. Those examples may help clarify things like character and power design. You can download a copy via the link on this page:

http://www.herogames.com/FreeStuff/freedocs.htm

 

Although it won't help you at the moment, Hero Games will soon be publishing The HERO System Sidekick, an inexpensive streamlined version of the ruleset without the bells and whistles, specifically designed to help teach newcomers the system and ease them into the full rules. It will be available both as a PDF and a printed book.

 

And as others have said, always feel free to come back here and ask anything.

[Barton]

Check out the player finder section of the board. Set your preferences back to all dates. See if a group(s) are near you. I am looking for players in West Suburbs or Chicago.

[Pteryx]

As far as Powers go, I find it easiest to think of them as functions in a scripting language. The names are labels, not summaries.

 

What sort of past RP experience do you have? That can help us help you out.

 

There's a couple of sample combats here (look for Pattern Ghost's posts): http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3210

 

And a summary of HERO's basics aimed at someone with d20 experience here (look for Killer Shrike's post): http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3512

 

Hope this helps. -- Pteryx

[DigitalGolem]

Willis;

 

I'd reiterate what's been said above, but several others already did. Three things;

 

1) DON'T PANIC !!!

 

2) The best way to learn Hero is to find a group of Hero players. Being face to face with someone who can explain Hero will put you on the accelerated learning curve.

 

3) When in doubt, half move, then hold your action.

 

Okay, four things: 4) Have fun!

 

DGv3.0

[prestidigitator]

Originally posted by lemming

Well, the first thing you want to do is enroll in a Math, CIS, or Physics program...

 

Don't let the math scare you. You could always pick up the character program (Hero Designer) to do all the hard parts.

 

Don't even joke about that! It is the number one problem I have had trying to get people interested in the system. That this system involves complex math is completely false! It is a myth! Bad myth! Bad myth!

 

If you got through elementary school, you can do every tiny bit of math in the system, and not break a sweat. There's some fractional multiplication, and maybe a little bit of division. There aren't many roleplaying systems in existance which don't have a little bit of that. If you want to do more than a little bit of it, you will just get more out of the system. That's all.

 

Now if you are interested in math and physics, you will get even more jazzed about the system when you start looking at all the beautiful consistency they came up with, such as lengths, volumes and densities being consistant, the exponential growth of Characteristics and Skills, the 3d6 distribution, falling velocities.... But this is all completely optional. No player action is required; it's all done for you.

 

By the way, I learned the system when my friend lent me the 4th edition rulebook. I picked it up and read it cover to cover. I fell instantly in love. The 5th edition may be bigger, but it snaps together better IMHO, and is actually a nicer read. Of course, I am weird. Eh.

[Farkling]

Bad Myth....Bad Myth!!

Welcome to HERO WIllis !! We hope you stay...

 

A calculator IS helpful on occassion...even the math majors will admit that doing it all in their head or on paper is time consuming. Bad Myth !! Bad Myth !!

 

My questions echo my compatriots...

 

1) Do you have ANY previous RPG experience? If so, what system...somebody here has played it and can give you references.

 

2) What KIND of game are you thinking of playing? SuperHeros? CyberPunk? Belgariad style High Fantasy? Lord of the RIngs style fantasy? Harry Potter? Big Guns and Small Streets? Car Wars? Giant RoboMecha in Outer Space? Star Wars? Steampunk? Wizards in Space? Dwarven Asteroid Miners?

All is in that big black book...build to suit, coms ask us for help or advice...people here have done it, or know where on the web to look for information...

 

3) Do you have friends you are trying to entice? Survey THEM for the kind of game.

 

4) If you don;t want to work it all out yourself, HERO will happily supply you with a book (eventually) Science Fiction, Fantasy, and SuperHero supplements are already out. Heck, even the old (BBB, or 5th edition) source books are good for layout and idea, you just need to update the power contructs.

[Hugh Neilson]

The questions above (prior RPG experience and genre) are quite good, and my comments may be a bit premature, but I'm going to go down the other road and assume you have no RPG experience. Here's a couple of notes for that extreme:

 

1. No matter what game you choose to start with, RPG's tend to be complex beasts, and they have evolved to greater and greater complexity over the years. For example, Hero 1st Edition was just "Champions", had the rules and the genre, plus some sample characters in one book, and was 64 pages long. D&D, the "premiere RPG (whether we like it or not) was three little booklets when it started out. Now, it's three huge hardcover books with dozens or hundreds of supplements.

 

2. With that in mind, it's easy to be overwhelmed by all the choices. But you don't need to USE all the choices. I'm just looking at the Hero Rulebook index, and there is, sad to say, a big hole that wasn't there in prior editions (maybe I missed it, and someone can point me to it if that's the case). That is "What is a role playing game". It was in some older editions. Go to a search enine (I used Google) and find "What is a role playing game" - you'll get hundreds of short essays. http://www.microtactix.com/whatrpg.htm is a pretty fair starting point. This may be too basic, as you seem to have an understanding of the concept.

 

3. Back to the Big Book. I would read the introduction, except the parts dealing with 4th ED. Follow that with pp 12-18 - character creation - but ignore the detailed rules for now. This gives you a basic summary. You can read the detail later.

 

4. Now go to p 335 and read about gamemastering to page 346. Just browse it - you may not get all the concepts, but you just want a brief overview.

 

5. From there, hit the technical rules that interest you. If you don't understand it, you can always ask here. Or just LEAVE IT OUT for now. Learn the game in a simplified form. Maybe you want a supers campaign. Just include Characteristics, Skills, Powers and Disadvantages for now. Ignore anything with a yield or stop sign - these are potential gamebreakers, and generally more complex. Leave out perks, talents, advantages, limitations and power frameworks - they're useful, but you can get a pretty good basic game without them.

 

6. Read the combat rules, with one proviso: if it says "Optional", ignore it. Again, just start with the basics. Play out some sample combats, using pregenerated characters if possible, with your friends. There are NO sample characters in 5ed, I note. This would help a lot, of course. On this website, go to Digital Hero. SOme of the free articles have characters. Choose one in your genre that's not too complex. Each of yu and your players plays an identicasl character, start equidistant on the map, and play out some combats. Treat it like a pure board game - no personalities - and play out the combat. Do this a few times, and you'll get a feel for the combat rules. Again, with the genre you prefer, bet on someone here being able to provide you some sample character writeups that are fairly basic.

 

7. Don't be afraid to ask for help here (from other players you know works, but it doesn't sound like you know any). You've already seen the response rate. Why is it? Enlightened self interest. We al know Hero goes out of business if the player base declines too far. If it increases, Hero makes more $$ and we get more great stuff produced (and maybe lower prices if print runs go up!). So we're all very interested in encouraging new players to play, and helping out.

 

[OK, maybe not all. But those that aren't won't post to these threads anyway.]

 

8. Someone else already said it. If you're having fun, you're playing right. Forget what anyone else says about your house rules - as long as everyone is enjoying the game, it's not "wrong". It can't be against the rules - as you read the book, you'll notice numerous comments like "if you don't like it, change it". Nothing is ever really banned - it just requires GM permission. The rulkes themselves tell you there really are no rules.

[Rebar]

FRed

 

Retroactively stands for "Fifth Rules edition".

[lemming]

Phew! Looks like joking about math is verbotten.

Can I help it that I learned Champions in college for a CIS degree? And most of the players were CIS, Math, or Physics weenies?

 

About the math; It's all very simple math, the only times we used Calculus & Physic was when we were being too analytic.

[Farkling]

Bad lemming! You will scare the new guy!

 

Of course, Mike and I DID spend a lot of time trying to figure out just how much damage and in which categories an atomic bomb would be...and then of course, we tested a low yield one on my little borther's character. He lived. He was very amused, as it assured him of his immortality in the cardboard and styrofoam world of humans...

 

But that is for another thread.

For a softie, Hugh has good ideas. Maybe it is because he's a softie...

 

For you Willis::

And as a side note on comabat...My superheroes games use NONE of the Hit Locations, Impairment, or Disabling rules. It's supposed to be quick...sometimes we don't use the SPD chart...

My spies game has all the "mortality rules" (as we call them) available...but needs them rarely (oh...except hit locations!)

 

Very few of the "optional combat manuevers" ever come up at all in the supers game...many "gun" manuevers do in the spies game.

 

The spies do not need to deal with Long Term Endurance rules...the heroes do, but it is a homecooked version...having little in common with the rules.

 

You have a beautiful toolkit in your hands...talk to us...we'll help. There's a fellow from Belgium haunting these boards who has been asking questions since he got the book, overall he seemed quite pleased with it, in spite of what we call the "learning curve" around here.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Farkling

And as a side note on comabat...My superheroes games use NONE of the Hit Locations, Impairment, or Disabling rules.

 

hmmm...neither do mine. I always thought that was because I'm soft

 

Actually, it's partly because it's not really genre, partly because it's awfully infrequent for Supers to get hit hard enough for impairs or disables anyway, partly because it wasn't there in 1st Ed and I won't be changing it now.

 

Oh yes - and also because high variance in CV means some characters would always get clocked in the head if I did use hit locations.

[Farkling]

And Thunderbolt initiates his infamous "Little Bunny Frou Frou" attack.

 

This is simply a Multiple Move by (or Sweep when surrounded)...T-Bolt has 10 skill levels only for Multiple Targetting...he hops up beside the agent and *BOPS* him on the head, then he hops to an agent and *BOPS* him on the head, and he hops up to an agent and *BOPS* him on the head...repeat next action phase.

 

For Willis...The version of this I would use in a superhero world...four colour or maybe even normal game::

 

"Little Bunny Frou Frou" Attack:: (25 Base Points) 5d6 Energy Blast, No Normal Defense (+1 Advantage) (Defense is Hardened Defenses, Interlocked Helmet, Successful Block Roll), Area Effect Radius (+1 Advantage), No Range (-1/2 Limitation), Cannot hit targets Bunny Frou Frou could not move to normally (-1/2 Limitation), Restrainable (-1/2 Limitation), Special Effect: Bunny Frou Frou hops all over the place at hyper speed bopping people on the head.

 

Energy Blast: to attack people without using STR.

Area Effect: to attack all the people around me

No Normal Defense: means they will take FULL damage unless they have one of the defenses listed

No Range: means the attack centers on Little Bunny...the power COULD be bought without this, then the special effect says he hops back here afterwards.

Cannot hit targets: Bunny can't hop really high in the air, so he has trouble hitting flyers and people leaning out windows

Restrainable: Bunny can't do this if he's tied up, grabbed, entangled...etc...

Special Effect: people need to know what all that stuff I wrote out MEANS...

 

This is a 25 Base Point Power for the 5d6 Energy Blast.

We now figure out the Acvtive Points as follows::

Base Points * (1+Advantages) => 25 * (1+1+1) = 25 * 3 = 75 Active Points.

 

Thats what I would pay for the power normally...but I have those limitations too...they make it cheaper, so Real Ponts are counted as::

Active Points / (1+Limitations) => 75 / (1+.5+.5+.5) = 75 / 2.5 = 30 Real Points.

 

So I pay 30 points for it, and it costs 7 END to use it (1 END for every 10 Active Points). Makes sense to me, as there is much dashing about involved. The Radius comes out to 5" ... though some people would just opt for 7" for easy accounting.

 

Doesn't this all look terrifying??

[Farkling]

Gosh, we're all standing around here talking...where did Willis go?

 

*glasses clink*

 

More drinks anyone? Cheese and crackers? One of these delightful little sandwiches?

[Bartman]

Originally posted by Farkling

Gosh, we're all standing around here talking...where did Willis go?

 

I think you just scared him away with your Frou Frou.

 

Seriously though Willis, what exactly are you having problems with? Precise questions are a lot easier to answer. Is there something in particular you are having problems with?

 

If it is the basics about how Hero works here is a nice overview of the whole system. And this one give a good quick overview of how you might want to use Hero in a number of different genres (fantasy, supers, sci-fi, cyber-punk etc.)