Inherent: SFX, any?

[lensman]

Re: Inherent: SFX, any?

 

Arguements can be made on both sides.

 

One, Any SFX can have a counter SFX and should not be inviolate to Adjustment powers.

 

Two, points buy anything the player wants, within reason.

 

My larger point which has been explored some, is there any SFX which justifies Inherent.

 

Of course many gamers I know can construct an agruement for almost anything.

 

My decision is that Luck is not Inherent, it is a force that can ebb and flow and can be subject to other powers. The Luck template the character enjoys is jest that, a template bestowed.

 

Honestly, this is the first time this question has ever come up. I come down on the side of not allowing absolutes, especially for a Heroic campaign.

 

Thanks to everyone who posted, helped me roll it over and look at many facets.

[Greywind]

Re: Inherent: SFX, any?

 

Rare cases.

 

A character like Talisman from the Justice Machine, I might consider his luck inherent.

[lensman]

Re: Inherent: SFX, any?

 

True enough, I don't know if is consistant to say, but for a Superheroic game I would allow it to be bought as Inherent.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Inherent: SFX, any?

 

IIRC, Talisman's Luck was kharmic in nature anyway - so long as he was doing the right thing (usually the right thing for others) things went in his favour - but if he turned greedy or self serving, things went bad.

 

I'd probably allow a 'God Gift' Luck power to be bought as inherent: with the -0 limitation 'can still be drained by Gods or beings of similar power'.

 

Don't forget though - Inherent prevents ANY adjustment - down OR up - so once you have your 2d6 luck (or whatever) another player's spell of luck boosting will have no effect on you. I know I said that before but it is worth remembering

[tesuji]

Re: Inherent: SFX, any?

 

 

I'd probably allow a 'God Gift' Luck power to be bought as inherent: with the -0 limitation 'can still be drained by Gods or beings of similar power'.

for me - nah.

 

If one god can gift a mortal with a power capable of doing X, why cannot another god gift a different mortal with power strong enough to undo or nullify X as well?

 

Would you allow a "god gift that allows me to throw webs & entangle poeple" to have an entangle that for -0 gets "cannot be broken by mortals"?

 

If source a can give you the ability to do x, source a can also give someone else the ability to undo X in my games. source a here is god's gifts.

 

 

Don't forget though - Inherent prevents ANY adjustment - down OR up - so once you have your 2d6 luck (or whatever) another player's spell of luck boosting will have no effect on you. I know I said that before but it is worth remembering

 

but thats easily handled by buying say 1d6 of "normal luck". so say 6d6 of luck is inherent and invulnerable gods gift but then you also have just regular plain vanilla luck of 1d6 like anyone can buy. This luck can be drained but its only 1d6 wiorth so no big deal. But it can be boosted by any amount, limited by the aid not by the size of the initial power.

 

i would think someone favored by the luck gods was likely lucky anyway before that, so it isn't an out of concept idea from my pov.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Inherent: SFX, any?

 

for me - nah.

 

If one god can gift a mortal with a power capable of doing X, why cannot another god gift a different mortal with power strong enough to undo or nullify X as well?

 

Would you allow a "god gift that allows me to throw webs & entangle poeple" to have an entangle that for -0 gets "cannot be broken by mortals"?

 

If source a can give you the ability to do x, source a can also give someone else the ability to undo X in my games. source a here is god's gifts.

 

I meant that the 'inherent' advantage - which you pay for at +1/4 - carries a -0 limitation that it can be drained by beings of godlike power - it is not for free - it takes the justification for buying inherent (mortals cannot drain godly powers) and makes it make sense in game. GodGifts are god powers - and so could interfere with other GodGifts.

 

 

 

but thats easily handled by buying say 1d6 of "normal luck". so say 6d6 of luck is inherent and invulnerable gods gift but then you also have just regular plain vanilla luck of 1d6 like anyone can buy. This luck can be drained but its only 1d6 wiorth so no big deal. But it can be boosted by any amount, limited by the aid not by the size of the initial power.

 

i would think someone favored by the luck gods was likely lucky anyway before that, so it isn't an out of concept idea from my pov.

 

Perhaps the Gods granted them luck out of pity at how unlucky they were?

 

If someone wanted to buy the same power twice in that way, the GM would be justified in saying 'no' because they are sliding round the limitation on 'inherent' that means it is only worth +1/4: if, effectively, you could positively but not negatively adjust a power then the advantage may well be worth a bit more.

[tesuji]

Re: Inherent: SFX, any?

 

So then we tend to agree except on the frequency of godlike powers. see, IMX most of the myths and legends around these demigods and god endowed heroes tend to have them FREQUENTLY up against other godly powered foes.

 

So to me the frequency of "inherent doesn't work against creatuires with similar sfx" is a lot more than -0, those foes will be fairly common, uncommon at best, based on many of the legends.

 

 

 

If someone wanted to buy the same power twice in that way, the GM would be justified in saying 'no' because they are sliding round the limitation on 'inherent' that means it is only worth +1/4: if, effectively, you could positively but not negatively adjust a power then the advantage may well be worth a bit more.

 

so would this mean say someone with "god gift magic armor - like what appears in classical literature - that provides defenses and maybe some strength, or maybe he has magical sandals that give him god's gift extra running - since IMX most god gifts are literally items not powers - but then i am fond of the greek myths -

 

then would you disallow inherent on those powers/artifacts because they would also have their own natural str, pd/ed, or runni9ng which could be boosted?

 

there are plenty of concepts along this line - seems odd to ban all of them.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Inherent: SFX, any?

 

So then we tend to agree except on the frequency of godlike powers. see, IMX most of the myths and legends around these demigods and god endowed heroes tend to have them FREQUENTLY up against other godly powered foes.

 

So to me the frequency of "inherent doesn't work against creatuires with similar sfx" is a lot more than -0, those foes will be fairly common, uncommon at best, based on many of the legends.

 

It would indeed depend on campaign frequency: but also it would depend how often such things came into conflict: bear in mind the only GodGifts that 'inherent' would not work against are those that adjust powers - whilst there are plenty of GodGifts, not that many of them work on an adjustment principle - that is probably the realm f more mortal powers like magic and poison and disease.

 

 

 

 

so would this mean say someone with "god gift magic armor - like what appears in classical literature - that provides defenses and maybe some strength, or maybe he has magical sandals that give him god's gift extra running - since IMX most god gifts are literally items not powers - but then i am fond of the greek myths -

 

then would you disallow inherent on those powers/artifacts because they would also have their own natural str, pd/ed, or runni9ng which could be boosted?

 

there are plenty of concepts along this line - seems odd to ban all of them.

 

Items are different: built with a focus and made indestructible you'd have a job countering them anyway (well, unless you employ theft or grab). Mind you I don;t think what I'm suggesting is quite the same: buying luck twice is different, at least to my way of thinking, from buying magic sandals that add to your running. I probably wouldn't let the magic sandals take 'inherent' anyway - they add to your running, not grant the ability to run to something that can not run.

[tesuji]

Re: Inherent: SFX, any?

 

Items are different: built with a focus and made indestructible you'd have a job countering them anyway (well, unless you employ theft or grab). Mind you I don;t think what I'm suggesting is quite the same: buying luck twice is different, at least to my way of thinking, from buying magic sandals that add to your running. I probably wouldn't let the magic sandals take 'inherent' anyway - they add to your running, not grant the ability to run to something that can not run.

 

Well, the classic greek "gift from the gods" like invisibility cloaks and winged sandals and etc etc were the first things that lept to my mind when "gift from the god" as an sfx/source was mentioned. The whole concept of "hep made this and so it is beyond mortals ability to affect" leaps out at me.

 

Which might be part of why i come down on different sides from others in this discussion so much.

 

But if i were going to allow inherent much at all, for these kinds of things, the "sword made by hep" would be a poster child.

 

As for whether the luck twice is the same thing - thats where we definitely disagree.

 

if its not a balance issue or a game system problem for me to have 6" running for free and say +6" running inherent because the 6" free can be boosted, then i dont see where it becomes a problem with 1d6 "normal luck" vs 2d6 or 6d6 "inherent godly" luck. The same net effect is there - cheap running can be boosted and inherent running cannot but the good side of inherent applies.

 

either that game mechanic is flawed and produces broken or problematic results or it doesn't. if anything the natural running or the normal pd/ed are a bigger problem than the luck. With the luck example i had to spend 5 more cp for the boostable luck whereas with the running and pd/ed its base free.

 

but along those lines, if the 1d6 non-inherent luck was from a "lucky charm" ie an item, a focus, would that pass your screening? Would 2d6 inherent godly luck and a 1d6 iif lucky charm be ok?

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Inherent: SFX, any?

 

Just thinking about luck and inherent. Perhaps the God of luck cannot boost the character if its made inherent, because once given, it cannot change. The Gods can only change so much. (Not very powerful eh ?)