BBEGs

[PerennialRook]

Big Bad Evil Guys

 

What can I throw at my players? If I have four 200 point players can I throw something that is 800 points? I would assume not. Should I say that the party is a 200 point character with a 40 point follower plus 10 points for the two extra followers for a total of 250 points?

 

How do you do it?

[Steve Long]

Since this isn't a rules question, I've moved it to the Discussion board so everyone can chime in.

 

What do you think, Herodom Assembled?

[PerennialRook]

Sorry about that. I don't know why I posted it there. I'd swear I posted it the the Discussion Boards. My bad.

[prestidigitator]

You can always take the traditional approah, and throw four 200 point villains at them.

 

This is a hard one to answer. It depends as much on the ingenuity of your players and the style of your adventure as it does on raw point costs. Are you talking, "Put them all on a flat battlefield and let them duke it out?" or, "Attempting to follow someone through a crowded city, using magic, guile, and intrigue?" In the former, points might matter a great deal. In the latter, they will play a part, but probably make much less difference.

 

Also, how suited might the PCs be to the particular threat? A single 100 point adversary who has Desolidification and an Affects Physical World attack might take them all out, if they have no way to harm it, get away from it, etc.

[DoctorItron]

There's no hard and fast rule. A lot depends on the individual characters. For a "typical" group of four 200 point heroes, I'd say that the following opposition might be balanced:

1) Four 200 point villains, or

2) Eight 100 point agents, or

3) One 350 point master villain

 

A lot of it is subjective, though, depending on the actual players and characters. A group of detective-style 200 point characters without many combat skills might be challenged by a single 200 point combat-oriented villain.

 

If you're starting a new campaign, give the villains motivations other than killing the player characters. If it turns out the villains are way overpowered, they will beat the heroes, accomplish their real goal, then escape. The heroes get to heal. Then, for the next adventure, use villains that are a little weaker. Eventually, the players will have enough experience to go after the original villains that wiped the floor with them.

[Lord Liaden]

If you'd like to be scientific about it, I'd recommend checking out Robert Pennington's article, "The Effectiveness Rating" in Digital Hero #3. It provides calculations to determine how effective a character would be in combat compared to others, and gives guidelines for how to match up characters with differing ER. I'm finding it quite useful.

 

The "Free Stuff" link at the top of the page can provide a spreadsheet to calculate ER for you, under "Character Sheets and Hex Maps."

[Herolover]

Forget the Points.

 

Sometimes the worst villians are built upon the same points as the players. So why are they so bad, because they break rules that the characters have to follow. Let me explain what I mean.

 

Take a 200 point character and give him a power that you would never allow a player to have. Some example could be:

 

Very high defense levels. In most campaigns 40PD/40ED resistance defenses would be almost inpenatrable. Sure, they might not have a lot attacks, but not being able to be put down would be very effective.

 

What about a character that has a single attack:

RKA 1d6, Penetrating (+1/2), NND [standard] (+1), Does BODY (+1) (52 Active Points) Cost: 52

 

There are many more. One of the great examples out of CKC is Dr. Destroyer. Now, I understand that he has a lot of points and powers, but that is only part of what makes DR D so bad. What really makes DR D a show killer is that many of his powers break normal campaign limits meaning characters can't hurt him and are excessively hurt by his attacks.

[McCoy]

Re: Forget the Points.

 

Originally posted by Herolover

Sometimes the worst villians are built upon the same points as the players.

 

If the players are not working as a team, sometimes you can teach them a lesson with less powerful characters that do use teamwork, coordinate attacks, cover each other's backs, compensate for each other's weaknesses.

 

Another interesting idea is to take the PC's character sheets, change names and SX, and put the players up aginst that team.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Forget the Points.

 

Originally posted by Herolover

One of the great examples out of CKC is Dr. Destroyer. Now, I understand that he has a lot of points and powers, but that is only part of what makes DR D so bad. What really makes DR D a show killer is that many of his powers break normal campaign limits meaning characters can't hurt him and are excessively hurt by his attacks.

 

No kidding. And how about his base alone.

[Barton]

Agents with one big bad guy

 

My favorite is a group of agents (# of players plus two) with one big bad guy (say about 1.5 times the points of the players). Play the agents with teamwork and coordinate attacks on players. This give the big bad guy a chance to do whatever his mission is. Players will have a tough (but not impossible) time with this and have fun. Most players love to beat up agents, but to "win" they must stop the big bad guy.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Agents with one big bad guy

 

Originally posted by Barton

My favorite is a group of agents (# of players plus two) with one big bad guy (say about 1.5 times the points of the players). Play the agents with teamwork and coordinate attacks on players. This give the big bad guy a chance to do whatever his mission is. Players will have a tough (but not impossible) time with this and have fun. Most players love to beat up agents, but to "win" they must stop the big bad guy.

 

My approach has always been the opposite - the BBG acts as a distraction while the agents (way lower power, but also way more skilled) get the job they came to do over with.

 

This works best if BBG is a mercenary or duped into "service", since we have trouble keeping staff if we keep letting them get locked up.

[Lemur866]

Re: Re: Forget the Points.

 

Originally posted by McCoy

Another interesting idea is to take the PC's character sheets, change names and SX, and put the players up aginst that team.

 

And of course, this is a standard comics genre bit...the team speedster has to fight a villain speedster, martial artist vs vs martial artist, brick vs brick, EP vs EP (although often with reversed special effects, fire vs ice, light vs dark, etc).

 

Another fun trick is to design the villain team to work against the player's weaknesses...so each villain has a designated target, and they can clean his clock every time. But give the villains weaknesses against the heroes too. The hero team has to mix it up and cover each other, and each team member has to figure out which villain is most vulnerble to his powers and save the guy who is getting beat up, all the while avoiding the guy who can beat him up.

 

If the players fight on the villain team's terms, they'll lose every time. But if they figure out the villain teams weaknesses the bad guys can be defeated easily.