Panpiper Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Traveler's Purse - Magic Item 3 Real Points - Wealth 5 AP , IIF +1/4, Only gives a maximum daily allowance +1/4 Assume that 3 silver pieces is enough to get you a small, lockable private room at a decent inn (2 SP if you're willing to slum it), with three meals, three drinks, and stabling for a horse. How many silvers will such a Traveler's Purse generate daily? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item Traveler's Purse - Magic Item 3 Real Points - Wealth 5 AP , IIF +1/4, Only gives a maximum daily allowance +1/4 Assume that 3 silver pieces is enough to get you a small, lockable private room at a decent inn (2 SP if you're willing to slum it), with three meals, three drinks, and stabling for a horse. How many silvers will such a Traveler's Purse generate daily? I'd say 1D6 silvers per day and on a 6, roll another 1D6 and if that comes up a 6, give them a small gem (or more coins) worth say 1d6+9 silvers. That works out to 3.5 silvers a day with a "monthly" (36 days) bonus of 12.5 silvers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item I'd say 1D6 silvers per day and on a 6' date=' roll another 1D6 and if that comes up a 6, give them a small gem (or more coins) worth say 1d6+9 silvers. That works out to 3.5 silvers a day with a "monthly" (36 days) bonus of 12.5 silvers.[/quote'] Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panpiper Posted November 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item Yes. I repped Blue Jogger for his reply, but I should say so more publicly. That was precisely what I needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item It's actually a bit of psychology there. Mathematically, it's a little less than 4 silvers a day (on average, expected outcome is 3.5+(12.5/36)~=3.85 ), but because it is random and occasionally there's a nice bonus, it feels like it is more money than it really is. Also, if it was 4 silvers a day, it would be boring and hence less magical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item I always keep at 5 silver in the pouch because six silver is what's needed to gain a Gem No wait, I keep 36 silver in the pouch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item Small things like these are no doubt the cause of collapsing fantasy economies throughout the roleplaying world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item Small things like these are no doubt the cause of collapsing fantasy economies throughout the roleplaying world Here's a tagline for you all: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panpiper Posted November 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item Small things like these are no doubt the cause of collapsing fantasy economies throughout the roleplaying world Whew, where to start. I have an extensive background in economics and really could could write a book on fantasy economics. I will seriously consider writing an article at least, but I'll post that to another thread if I do. A single Traveler's Purse such as this would have virtually zero effect on any appreciably sized economy. If it were a small isolated village cut off for the winter, it could certainly have an inflationary effect on the local economy of the village, with prices slowly going up for everyone (including the purse holder). However as soon as the pass cleared, most everyone in the village (who did any sort of regular buying and wage earning anyway) would suddenly find themselves with a lot of cash to spend outside the village where prices would be much lower. As that extra cash got spent, local prices would quickly drop and all would be again normal. If a great many such purses were to exist in an economy, they could conceivably have an inflationary effect, pushing up prices. How fast would depend on how big the economy was, as well as other factors, like if the economy is shrinking or growing, how much mining of monetary metals is going on, etc. If the economy was growing at a healthy clip and mining activity was no more than normal, one could conceivably have a good many such purses in existence and have no inflationary effect. Regardless however, mere expansion of the money supply at the bottom of the production pyramid (technically pure consumption) would have no other effect on an economy other than a general rise in prices, it could not precipitate a collapse. Fiscal destablization needs to happen at the top of the production pyramid in order to cause economic destabilizations. The simple presence of such purses would be unlikely to destabilise or collapse an economy. To actually collapse an economy through fiscal means (an economy can collapse due to predation of war, disease or famine) requires that the economy be acted upon through a significant 'external' force, meaning something that is not a normal part of simple markets. A simple market economy, without such external factors, will naturally adjust to changing conditions and not collapse. A fiscal collapse could be caused in a fantasy economy if for instance the ruler were to decide to go to a paper currency, confiscate the metal currency (likely giving paper in exchange), and then proceed to pay all the ruler's debts by issuing however much 'extra' paper he felt like spending. This could cause a hyper inflation and even if the ruler restrained himself, could easily precipitate boom bust cycles such as we see in our modern paper currency economy, if the quantity of paper money expanded faster than the economy grew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item My worry is - that if you allow the magic system in your campaign to be able to create money, where will it end? The Travellers Purse is but the tinniest of creative ideas for a world usually full to the brim with down trodden masses eager to get rich quick (adventurers or peasants, your choice). I generally treat it like another technology in the high magic world of the Western Shores - in that money itself is enchanted with unique spells to reduce counterfeiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panpiper Posted November 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item Actually, my dirty little secret, is that the traveler's purse actually works by 'stealing' the brand new minted coins out of the king's mint. But shh... Don't tell my players! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item I really like that! I'm a big fan of magic with side effects. It keeps magic as a something other than just technology with the serial numbers filed off. A little bit of unknown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hierax Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item Another type of side effect/cursed version is the coins disappear after a certain amount of time -- e.g., it generates the coins each day but when it generates the "new" coins the "old" coins disappear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panpiper Posted November 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item Another type of side effect/cursed version is the coins disappear after a certain amount of time -- e.g.' date=' it generates the coins each day but when it generates the "new" coins the "old" coins disappear.[/quote'] Actually that would likely qualify as a 'cursed' item. I would think that it would be extremely likely that a character using such a purse would find themselves caught rather quickly. Maybe the coins disappear after a few weeks or a month, long enough for them to have changed hands a few times or at least be lost among other coins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hierax Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item Exactly the rate of disappearance affects the level of the curse. You could even give it an Ablative -like Limitation and it starts out not disappearing the coins and then eventually as it is used more and more times the magic fades and the coins fade rate gets faster and faster -- year, month, week, day, hour, ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panpiper Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item You are an evil person Hierax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item And of course the coins themselves should be detectable as not being genuine but somehow cursed, if put to some kind of magic test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item And of course the coins themselves should be detectable as not being genuine but somehow cursed' date=' if put to some kind of magic test.[/quote'] Maybe they revert to base metal if tested in some simple manner, such as striking against cold iron? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item Maybe they revert to base metal if tested in some simple manner' date=' such as striking against cold iron?[/quote'] Depends on how magic works in your setting Also depends on how best it may serve the plot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcamtar Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item Whew' date=' where to start. I have an extensive background in economics and really could could write a book on fantasy economics. I will seriously consider writing an article at least, but I'll post that to another thread if I do.[/quote'] Would you mind posting a summary of the money and pricing system you use in your campaign? I'm curious how an economist would put stuff together. Also in the next week or so I need to figure out the economics for my new campaign, and am in a larcenous mood! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item I'd like that as well. As my new tagline suggests, I didn't major in economics but my players require the economy to work flawlessly and with mercilessly nitpick it to death if I let them. The trick that I currently use is converting from current dollars back into the equivalent silver, which works as long as I also adjust for lack of modernization (magic supplements this) and a healthy dose of fudge. Always add fudge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panpiper Posted November 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Re: Traveler's Purse - Magic Item Would you mind posting a summary of the money and pricing system you use in your campaign? I'm curious how an economist would put stuff together. Also in the next week or so I need to figure out the economics for my new campaign' date=' and am in a larcenous mood! :-)[/quote'] Ok Blue Jogger, Alcamtar. I'll try to make the time Wednesday to write up a more in depth essay. In the mean time, I can quote a post I made the other day on another thread which outlines the monetary system at least. * I'm building a currency system that is largely based on real world historical values and ratios. In order to keep it intuitive for the players, I am naming the currency units after what they already understand, to some degree. The most common coin used for normal daily transactions would be the penny, which is a large copper coin larger than a US quarter. One penny is enough to buy a small loaf of bread. There are also technically 'tenthpence' which are small copper coins roughly the size of a dime which is used for even smaller transactions and making change. The most common coin that players would concern themselves with is the 'Dime' also refereed to as a 'Silver'. This is a silver coin the size of today's US dimes. It represents one day's wages for a typical unskilled laborer and is enough to buy common room shelter and enough basic gruel to survive. A day's stay in a decent inn with a small lockable private room, three meals, three drinks, and stabling for a horse would cost 3 dimes, 2 if you are willing to slum it. Next up would be a Quarter, a silver coin worth two and a half dimes and sized just like today's US quarters. And finally, there comes the silver Dollar, an unusual coin for the common man on the street, but an oft used measure among the nobility and wealthy merchants. It is sized just like a 'modern' US silver dollar. Gold coins exist but are seldom used except for very large transactions. They exist in two denominations, the more common and much smaller coin is the Ducat (sometimes simply referred to as a gold piece) the same size as a dime and finally the much larger Dubloon, the same size as a silver Dollar but obviously worth much more. A Ducat is worth ten dollars and a Dubloon is worth one hundred Dollars. So to restate in perhaps a more legible form: 2 Tenthpence = Mug of weak ale. Dime sized copper. 10 Tenthpence = 1 Penny (Small loaf of bread, one meal of gruel) Dollar sized copper. 10 Pennies = 1 Silver Piece/Dime (Day's unskilled wages) Dime sized silver. 25 Pennies = 1 Quarter, a Quarter sized silver. 10 Dimes = 1 Dollar (Three day's lodging and stabling at a nice Inn.) Dollar sized silver. 10 Dollars = 1 Gold Piece/Ducat (A month's wages for a skilled craftsman.) Dime sized gold. 10 Ducats = 1 Dubloon (A month's allowance for pampered nobility.) Dollar sized gold. A simplification of the above system, in keeping with actual currency values would be to simply refer to coppers, silvers and gold pieces. Assume that 100 coppers equals a silver and that 100 silvers equals a gold piece. All coins are approximately the same size (I recommend dime sized) Price for a fine suit of heavy full plate, ornate, fully fluted, gothic articulation and gold leaf embossing: 4 Dubloons, or 4000 Silvers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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