How do fighters hurt/kill a dragon?

[megaplayboy]

Re: How do fighters hurt/kill a dragon?

 

In terms of hurting the dragon, have you tried casting aspersions as to the legitimacy of its parentage?

[Manic Typist]

Re: How do fighters hurt/kill a dragon?

 

I'm not trying to best the player.

unless you mean I want them to play their best and not expect me to carry them through the game.

 

Well, that's different than "vs. the players."

 

that the GM may have final word but never had complete control of the game.

Final word= enormous power.

 

 

A GM does not need to worry about supplying solutions to the problems presented to players.

Supply the solutions? No. Ensure that there ARE solutions? Yes. If you've created a challenge where you can't think of a solution, it's an unfair challenge. If you create a challenge where ONLY your solution is the one that will work, well that's probably an unfair challenge too.

 

After all, they have more minds than the GM to figure something out.

Actually, that line of reasoning doesn't work, since it's the GM's mind which decides whether or not they properly figured something out.

 

My point is that I find couching things in terms of "players vs. GM" is dangerous, since it can lead to a negative playstyle/environment. This isn't a competition. It's the GM's job to ensure everyone has fun, not to torture the players. Now, if torturing them is fun for everyone involved, then go for it! But I bet most players would prefer if things weren't quite THAT tough, since that likely requires a number of restrictions on how they solve things.

[Matt Holck]

Re: How do fighters hurt/kill a dragon?

 

let's not pretend conflict doesn't occur between players and the GM

"no, you can't buy that power"

a GM only has the final word if there are players

players are very inventive and will find solutions whether the GM can or not

 

the world is greater than the GM

in most games,

the assumption that gravity holds things to the ground exists without the GM lifting a finger to say so

 

Actually, that line of reasoning doesn't work, since it's the GM's mind which decides whether or not they properly figured something out.

a judgment call

if the GM is unreasonable about proposals, the players won't enjoy themselves and leave the game

[Tywyll]

Re: How do fighters hurt/kill a dragon?

 

I found, with the last Dragon I ran, that a bow shot to the (enormous) head works pretty well.

 

The Dragon was out of MMM I think, or maybe the main monster book, but it was a 'bog standard' dragon. It tore up the melee fighters in a rediculously short amount of time. Meanwhile, the elven ranger stayed well back out of it's range of the breath, aimed, and fired. The dragon's size made it's DCV only a couple of points, his targeting levels and Ranged MA meant that he was effectively shooting versus a DCV of 8 (his OCV with all his levels was around a 10 I think).

 

Head hit, rolled a 10+ for damage, did something like 50-60 stun. Even with its PD and Con it went down like a sack of bricks (stunned) at which point the melee fighters began making their own aimed shots to its now reachable head.

 

Though its initial couple of attacks scared the crap out of the players, I think the fight was over before we'd had two recoveries.

 

Needless to say, at that point, I swore all my dragons would have Damage Reductions!

[Manic Typist]

Re: How do fighters hurt/kill a dragon?

 

let's not pretend conflict doesn't occur between players and the GM

"no, you can't buy that power"

a GM only has the final word if there are players

players are very inventive and will find solutions whether the GM can or not

 

 

While some wandering is acceptable in a thread, and we have been discussing tangential issues to running dragons and like challenges... I think anything further in this line of conversation would serve as an excessive deviation from the original topic.

 

So, I acknowledge your reply, respect its validity as an opinion, and simply leave it at that I disagree with you. May you always roll low, except on damage.

[Matt Holck]

Re: How do fighters hurt/kill a dragon?

 

so player's ain't very inventive?

[Manic Typist]

Re: How do fighters hurt/kill a dragon?

 

so player's ain't very inventive?

 

Start a new thread and we'll talk, PM and we'll talk, or move on. I've said all I intend to say about that in THIS thread.

 

 

Back on topic:

 

Fighters will need force multipliers, obviously. Magic would be nice, but traps generally, additional troops, artillery (ballista), control of battle location, knowledge of dragon physiology and vulnerabilities.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: How do fighters hurt/kill a dragon?

 

Yeah, called shot head is probably the simplest solution - but that is easier said than done for a melee fighter.

 

If I were a fighter trying to kill a dragon, I'd be trying to lure the dragon to a spot where I can easily get at its head - luring it to, say, stick it's head in a window or recess or cavern and then stick it with a long spear.

 

But yeah called shot head + armor piercing weapon + as many damage adders as possible from MA or whatever would be my plan, as a straight fighter type.