Alternate Blindness/Deafness

[Armitage]

The ability to make a character blind or deaf has typically been designed as a Transform, but this can have a high Active Point cost or require multiple uses of a weaker Power.

e.g. using Killer Shrike's D&D spell conversion guidelines, a wizard's Blindness/Deafness spell would be 45 Active Points, which is hard to use to strike someone blind instantly; you typically have to maintain it for a Turn or more.

 

An alternate method occurred to me:

 

Strike Blind: Darkness to Sight Group 1m radius, Selective Target (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Uncontrolled (effect ended by curative magic; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1 1/4), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible, effects of Power are Invisible to other characters; +1 1/2) (25 Active Points)

 

Strike Deaf: Darkness to Hearing Group 1m radius, Selective Target (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Uncontrolled (effect ended by curative magic; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1 1/4), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible, effects of Power are Invisible to other characters; +1 1/2) (15 Active Points)

 

The Darkness is Invisible to everyone except the target, who has the relevant Sense Group shut-down.

 

Am I missing anything? Too potentially abusive?

[Ice9]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

Depends on how common curative magic is. If it's not common among foes, then this could be somewhat imbalanced - especially as a large group version would only be slightly more AP. However, I think you need Sticky or Mobile for it to be attached to the target when they move.

 

Another method I've used, for lingering impaired vision, is Change Environment (penalty to Sight Group) with Long Lasting, linked to a Flash for the initial effect. Once the initial blindness wears off, they're still going to have trouble seeing anything that isn't completely obvious.

[Armitage]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

However' date=' I think you need Sticky or Mobile for it to be attached to the target when they move. [/quote']

 

6E1 359

"Usable As Attack allows a character to "attach" a Constant Power to a target and have that Power follow him as he moves. For example, Darkness to Hearing Group 1m radius, Usable As Attack, would "stick" to a target and move with him as he moves, thus preventing him from escaping its effects."

[Matt Holck]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

needs a saving throw

 

I generally threat this as an inverted activation limataion

usually based on a character statt roll using an 11- as the mean chance

activation   saving throw   Statt roll modifier  Limataion
8-           12-            +1                   -2
9-           11-             0                   -3/2            
10-          10-            -1                   -5/4
11-           9-            -2                   -1
12-           8-            -3                   -3/4
13-           7-            -4                   ...
14-           6-            -5                   -1/2
15-           5-            -6                   -1/4

[IKerensky]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

Shouldn't they be a mere Drain ?

[Matt Holck]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

I thought of that in the tub

+1 perception is 2 points for a single sense

so a -1 to perception to a single sense would be 2 points of drain

[Armitage]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

Shouldn't they be a mere Drain ?

 

6E1 209:

"The Cost of Standard Senses...

Characters cannot use these costs for Adjustment Powers. A character cannot, for example, render another character blind by Draining his Normal Sight."

[Sean Waters]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

IPE on Darkness does not stop the darkness affecting anyone in the target area. You can drain senses if you want to.

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

IPE on Darkness does not stop the darkness affecting anyone in the target area. You can drain senses if you want to.

 

I'm pretty sure that's why he gave it the selective advantage, also the rules specifically prohibit draining standard senses, as Armitage just pointed out.

[Ice9]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

Hadn't noticed that UaA was on there. Looks legit then, but still potentially unbalanced.

[Daltwisney]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

You probably want to bump the UaA advantage up to (+1 1/2), the 'book' version requires you to maintain LoS, which lowers the advantage by 1/4.

As built it also requires you to be in melee range to inflict Blindness/Deafness, so you might want Limited Range (+1/4) or Standard Range (+1/2).

[Armitage]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

You probably want to bump the UaA advantage up to (+1 1/2), the 'book' version requires you to maintain LoS, which lowers the advantage by 1/4.

As built it also requires you to be in melee range to inflict Blindness/Deafness, so you might want Limited Range (+1/4) or Standard Range (+1/2).

 

I pulled the value from Hero Designer and I didn't take the time to deconstruct the Advantage ( I was still thinking in 5E terms). I had intended for Uncontrolled to handle the Line of Sight issue. I guess I overcharged myself a +1/4, but it would continue to function if the user was unconscious.

As for range, I was just looking at the basic effect. Range would come later.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

I'm pretty sure that's why he gave it the selective advantage' date=' also the rules specifically prohibit draining standard senses, as Armitage just pointed out.[/quote']

 

That does not work: all that does is means it is easy to hit what you are aiming at, what it does not do it change the fact that you've hit it with a 1 m radius darkness - no one without personal immunity can see in or out or through with the afefcted sense. IPE does not grant immunity to the effects of darkness it just means that you have no idea what you can not see through that particular place.

 

Wouldn't an uncontrolled NND Flash be more what the flavour here?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

6E1 359

"Usable As Attack allows a character to "attach" a Constant Power to a target and have that Power follow him as he moves. For example, Darkness to Hearing Group 1m radius, Usable As Attack, would "stick" to a target and move with him as he moves, thus preventing him from escaping its effects."

 

 

What a ridiculous rule. Not the ability to do it - but doing it this way. I despair sometimes.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

6E1 209:

"The Cost of Standard Senses...

Characters cannot use these costs for Adjustment Powers. A character cannot, for example, render another character blind by Draining his Normal Sight."

 

Good point well made! Seems like a bit of a cop out to me - I do not think it is likely to be unbalancing if you were allowed to drain senses, but that is clearly the rule.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

What a ridiculous rule. Not the ability to do it - but doing it this way. I despair sometimes.

That's how it was done in 5ER as well...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

That's how it was done in 5ER as well...

 

 

...and was a bad idea then too.

 

IIRC 'Flash' used to be AoE and is now a single target attack. The whole thing makes no sense: it is ALREADY an attack that affects other people, using this advantage to accomplish the aim is counter intuitive.

[Daltwisney]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

Good point well made! Seems like a bit of a cop out to me - I do not think it is likely to be unbalancing if you were allowed to drain senses' date=' but that is clearly the rule.[/quote']

 

I think it becomes unbalancing if you think a little more on it. Bump the recovery rate down the chart a couple steps, and consider that a power that is drained to 0 (which would be the requirement for Blindness) needs to recover enough points for a 'single level of effect' - which for a sense would be all of the points, and suddenly Flash looks pretty lame.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

...and was a bad idea then too.

 

IIRC 'Flash' used to be AoE and is now a single target attack. The whole thing makes no sense: it is ALREADY an attack that affects other people, using this advantage to accomplish the aim is counter intuitive.

When did flash used to be AoE? Did you mean Darkness? Or are you going back before 5th Edition?

As far as "it being a bad idea then too", whether it is or isn't, you acting surprised like some really stupid change just happened seems...odd at best.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

I think it becomes unbalancing if you think a little more on it. Bump the recovery rate down the chart a couple steps' date=' and consider that a power that is drained to 0 (which would be the requirement for Blindness) needs to recover enough points for a 'single level of effect' - which for a sense would be all of the points, and suddenly Flash looks pretty lame.[/quote']

 

I'd say not unbalanced, not really:

 

35 points for blindness, that is 10d6, on an average roll, so you'll need 2 hits from a 60AP drain (which actually has 42 points of effect, meaning you won;t be able to see again for 9 full turns - never mind buying down the fade rate).

 

cf: 4d6 major (15 per 1d6) transform, 2 hits = 28 points of effect, which will transform anyone with 14 or less Body to a blind person for months.

 

Both these examples assume the target has no power defence.

 

cf: 12d6 Blast does 42 stun, against (say) 22 defence: that will KO anyone with 40 or less stun.

 

Any of those attacks has a decent chance of effectively taking an opponent out of the fight in 2 hits.

 

Of course 60 points in flash will blind an opponet for a turn in one hit - that is probably more than enough to cripple them enough to finish them off other ways.

[Armitage]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

That does not work: all that does is means it is easy to hit what you are aiming at' date=' what it does not do it change the fact that you've hit it with a 1 m radius darkness - no one without personal immunity can see in or out or through with the afefcted sense. IPE does not grant immunity to the effects of darkness it just means that you have no idea what you can not see through that particular place.[/quote']

 

6E1 324

"Selective Target

...he can ignore "friendlies" in the area and only affect enemies with his attack...Characters can buy Selective Target as a separate +1/4 Advantage for Powers that inherently affect an Area, such as Darkness."

 

Anyone not directly targeted by the Selective Darkness would not be affected, i.e. their senses would be in no way impaired. If not, there would be no point in buying Selective as an Advantage on Darkness.

The IPE isn't to prevent others from being affected, just to maintain the FX of someone suddenly being struck blind rather than being engulfed in a ball of shadow.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

6E1 324

"Selective Target

...he can ignore "friendlies" in the area and only affect enemies with his attack...Characters can buy Selective Target as a separate +1/4 Advantage for Powers that inherently affect an Area, such as Darkness."

 

Anyone not directly targeted by the Selective Darkness would not be affected, i.e. their senses would be in no way impaired. If not, there would be no point in buying Selective as an Advantage on Darkness.

The IPE isn't to prevent others from being affected, just to maintain the FX of someone suddenly being struck blind rather than being engulfed in a ball of shadow.

 

 

I'm not sure why you think you CAN use 'selective' for darkness. It does not use the AoE rules.

 

The point is that Darkness is a minimum 1 m radius effect. Even if you JUST hit ENEMY anyone within 1m of him will also be affected and it works to BOTH prevent ENEMY sensing using sight but also prevents anyone sensing him bu sight as he is in a darkness field, albeit a pretty small one. So anyone not directly targeted would not be DIRECTLY affected but would still be unable to see within or through or into the darkness field and would be affected by the darkness if they were close enough to ENEMY as if they HAD been hit.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

When did flash used to be AoE? Did you mean Darkness? Or are you going back before 5th Edition?

As far as "it being a bad idea then too", whether it is or isn't, you acting surprised like some really stupid change just happened seems...odd at best.

 

1st through 3rd, and POSSIBLY 4th, flash was an AoE power, IIRC.

 

As for 'Changing Target Type' I'd rather hoped that a more logical approach would be taken with the new improved version of the game. It's like 'Instant/Constant/Persistent/Uncontrolled' - instead of ironing out the issues, 6th has further muddied the waters.

[Armitage]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

I'm not sure why you think you CAN use 'selective' for darkness. It does not use the AoE rules.

 

Because the rules specifically say you can use Selective for Darkness, as I quoted.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Alternate Blindness/Deafness

 

Because the rules specifically say you can use Selective for Darkness' date=' as I quoted.[/quote']

 

Sorry, you're right, you did - but I don't see (if you'll pardon the pun) - how this works. For that matter I don't see why Darkness needs different AoE rules to everything else. The thing is you hit someone with an effect that affects the area around them. You're using UAA to make it stick to them, but I still don't understand what part of the construct means that people can see the affected target. 'Selective' allows you to only hit the target - so noone else standing nearby had darkness 'stuck' to them - but they will still be affected by it if they want to look into, out of or through the area. The only way you can ignore Darkness is if you have Personal Immunity to it, and there's no way to give that to 'everyone but the target'.

 

As an aside, I'd probably not allow the construct even if it did do what you suggest because it is too cheap for the effect: blinding someone for 25 points until they apply countermagic sounds over powerful - Daltwisney was concerned about draining senses being unbalancing and this is cheaper, lasts longer and has no real defence at all.