Dragon-riders of Pern

[dmjalund]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

Do - or do not. There is no try.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

Ok, ignoring the once in a lifetime ability to move and teleport small planets... I will assume the dragon has the ability to lift what it can based on its internal STR, give or take.

 

34 Mental Lift: Telekinesis (40 STR) (60 Active Points); Very Limited Range (-1/2), Unified Powers (Psychic) (-1/4)

38 Mental Lift II: Telekinesis (45 STR) (68 Active Points); Very Limited Range (-1/2), Unified Powers (Psychic) (-1/4)

43 Mental Lift III: Telekinesis (50 STR) (75 Active Points); Very Limited Range (-1/2), Unified Powers (Psychic) (-1/4)

47 Mental Lift IV: Telekinesis (55 STR) (83 Active Points); Very Limited Range (-1/2), Unified Powers (Psychic) (-1/4)

51 Mental Lift V: Telekinesis (60 STR) (90 Active Points); Very Limited Range (-1/2), Unified Powers (Psychic) (-1/4)

[AlHazred]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

First off, thanks for not dropping the ball when I went on vacation. I got busy working up Character Gen stuff for my High Fantasy campaign and got side-tracked. (Check my latest blog post for what kept me busy.)

 

I love the writeups. I'm pretty sure that, for my game, I'll leave off the Mental Lift. That's a late development and, while perhaps consistent with the canon, not something I need to complicate my draconic ecology.

 

As far as Dragon Hide, they're not really described as massively protected, at least in the first book. On the other hand, Thread is probably a Drain BODY attack, which they are not defended against. I might go with 5 for Greens, and then step it up 1 for every other type on the list (so, 5 for Greens and Blues, 6 for Browns and Bronzes, and 7 for Golds).

[RexMundi]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

Dragons require a lot of physical care as well, and certainly seem to be more of the tough, like a big horse is tough, as opposed to TOUGH, like stuff bounces off a typical Fantasy Dragons scales like Tank Armor. The mental Lift though isn't that late in development. Dragons lifting and hauling Cargo is one of the first Shock and Awe things, the Weyr's liked to use against the Holds when Holds started to get a bit uppity.

 

I was thinking as well, that Between, feels more Extra-dimensional Movement, then Teleportation (with a serious nasty environment). It's effect is teleportation as far as general (much like, Sidewinder from Marvel Comics) "How To", but recall, staying in between To Long, has serious risks, and in order to Time Travel, or go great distances, the Dragons stay in between longer (Dragons not being particularly effected until between for extremely long periods of time). Effects on the rider are profound though, and it's cold enough to cause more then a few ill effects as well as Freeze thread (something which travels through space albeit, in a slightly different form.).....

 

So my question being, would Extra-dimensional Movement, work better then Real Teleport, once the relative properties of the "Between" Dimension, is GM stated?

 

~Rex

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

Extra-Dimensional Travel by itself, I suppose, could be used. I'm not sure it is better.

 

24 Go In-Between: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Any Point in Time, Any Physical Location) (77 Active Points); Side Effects (-1), Extra Time (Extra Phase, -3/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Unified Power (Psychic) (-1/4)

 

Here, you take a minimum damage of two phases of in-between to get back (after spending two phases getting there).

 

I suggest losing 1 BODY per phase in in-between. After coming back, if it doesn't kill you, you recover as per a drain attack. Each shift on the Megascale table or Time table (after 1 hour) is an additional phase in in-between. For example, to travel 100,000 km is 6 additional phases. To travel back to yesterday is 2 additional phases (in fact, if I remember correctly, a dragon accidentally travels back one day without too much trouble, they just don't unless they are confused or there is a dire need).

 

I think dragons actually take some sort of temporal damage if they muck with the timestream too much, or maybe they have an instinctual desire to avoid reckless time travel.

[AlHazred]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

In Hero, I always look at desired Effect. Here, the desired effect is to travel between two locations (or two times) on Pern, so I think Teleport is called for. Everything else is Advantages, Limitations, and special effects.

 

My current thinking is, dragons should get one Fixed Location (their lair), and then one or possibly more Floaters, depending on the dragon's intelligence and perceived skill. I modeled this as two powers:

11 Go Between: Teleportation 12m, MegaScale (1m = 10,000 km; +2) (36 Active Points); Side Effects (without a clear destination image in mind, both dragon and rider will never emerge from Between; -1), Extra Time (Extra Phase, -3/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Unified Power (Psionic Powers; -1/4) - END=4

7 Go Between: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension, Any Time) (25 Active Points); Side Effects (without a clear destination image in mind, both dragon and rider will never emerge from Between; -1), Extra Time (Extra Phase, could be much higher depending on amount of Time Travel; -3/4), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Unified Power (Psionic Powers; -1/4) - END=4

 

The first one is for going to another location at the current time, the second is for traveling to any time at the current location. Some tweaking is still required here -- for instance, a "clear destination in mind" is obviously a Floating Location, so the T-port is only to Floating or Fixed locations. I'm also thinking the END cost should be higher.

 

The INT 8 was actually to represent the dragon's poor memory -- they're as intelligent as humans, but don't have our capacity for long-term memory. This can also be represented as a Physical Complication of some sort, but the T-port and ED Movement should both have Requires An INT Roll or something.

 

It would help to know what percentage of passages Between result in people never coming back. 25%? 50%? 10%? Even less? At which point do normal humans say, "Eh, sure I have a chance of getting killed on the highway, but it shaves ten minutes off my commute!"

[RexMundi]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

I'm definitely leaning Extra-Dimensional Movement myself. Here's the Official-esse description for those not to familiar with the topic or not having the info around:

 

Between in Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern series is a dimension through which dragons, watch-whers and fire lizards travel during the process of teleportation, referred to as "going between". If the dragon does not have a clear picture of its destination in mind, it is possible for the dragon and its passengers to become permanently lost in this dimension. Deliberately going "between" without a destination in mind is how dragons suicide, usually occurring when the rider that they are soul-bonded to dies of illness or injury, or if the dragon itself is mortally injured. Many characters, fire lizards, and dragons have been lost "between" (i.e. "Moreta's Ride"). In Todd McCaffrey's Dragonsblood, several make it out of "between" after they are lost.

 

"Between" is universally described as a place of nothingness. Usually, for a dragon to teleport using its rider's directions, they stay in "between" for the time that it takes to cough three times. Fire lizards take eight seconds to teleport anywhere on the planet. "Between" frequently causes cystitis and child-bearing problems in female dragonriders. Going "between" without proper coordinates is a frequent cause of death for inexperienced weyrlings.

 

"Between" is characterized by extreme cold (far below zero yet not as cold as outer space) and induces near-total sensory deprivation in humans who travel through it on dragonback. There appears to be no breathable air "between", and riders who make exceptionally long journeys suffer the effects of oxygen deprivation. In later books, an expedition on dragonback to the Red Star wear spacesuits to alleviate this problem; dragons can hold their breath for much longer than humans without ill effects. Dragons and fire lizards deliberately go "between" to destroy any Thread which they come in contact with, as the extreme cold causes it to freeze almost instantly, whereupon it can be safely brushed off dragon or rider.

 

Dragons are also capable of travelling "between" times, but this can only be used when they have a point of reference for that time, such as star positions or a vivid memory. The White Dragon, Ruth, could travel between to any time without fail, including to the future. "Timing it" was known to many riders a long time ago, but, since Lessa and Ramoth brought the weyrs forward, it was kept a secret. Riders who "Time" to a very distant era without protective gear, or to a past location in close proximity of their past self can experience fatal fatigue and disorientation. Since its discovery, the knowledge of this ability has been restricted, and only Bronze dragons are permitted to utilise it under directions from the Weyrleaders. The ability was suppressed by the nature of the weyrling training in going "between", as weyrlings were deliberately given reference points which would ensure they remained in their own time. It was only when Lessa jumped "between" on her own initiative when barely trained that she rediscovered the capability.

 

I think I would lean more towards an NND though other then a body drain. Losing Body in anyway is serious stuff, Losing Body after you lose all your stun, that's more like freezing to death and the other effects listed.

 

~Rex

[Zeropoint]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

I've tried several times, but I just can't help seeing this thread title as "Dragon-riders of Porn".

[RexMundi]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

Heh...I believe that was one of the many fan fic usenet groups back in the day actually.

 

~Rex

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

It would help to know what percentage of passages Between result in people never coming back. 25%? 50%? 10%? Even less? At which point do normal humans say' date=' "Eh, sure I have a [i']chance [/i]of getting killed on the highway, but it shaves ten minutes off my commute!"

 

To give a comparison, freeway fatalities are listed at 1 in 4000 chance. But, the odds are far from fixed for a dragon going in-between. Most of the time, the chance is negligible. However, if the dragon is fatigued or fatally wounded or just plain suicidal, the odds will increase dramatically.

 

But, it's not really about the side effect, it's how often it would be really nice to teleport, but you can't because you don't want to risk going in-between with a wounded dragon. I think that's worth a -1.

 

Imagine being halfway on the other side of the planet with a wounded dragon in the middle of a Threadfall.

[AlHazred]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

Don't mind me, I'm being stupid lately. Obviously, the dragon's "Poor Memory" is a special effect explaining why it has only one or two fixed floating locations. Duh.

 

7 Go Between: Teleportation 10m, MegaScale (1m = 10,000 km; +2) (30 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x4 END; -1 1/2), Extra Time (Extra Phase, -3/4), Can Only Teleport To Floating Fixed Locations (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Unified Power (Psionics; -1/4)=12 END

5 Poor Memory: Teleportation: Floating Fixed Location (1 Location)=0 END

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

On the matter of Dragon intelligence, I would argue that there is some variation with types. Based on my reading of the original books, Greens seem to be less smart than Golds, for certain. Bronzes probably rank about the same as Golds, and Browns are somewhere in the mid-range.

 

Subject to individual variation, of course. I recall Canth (a Brown) being noted as especially large and smart for his subset, very close to a Bronze in all but actual colour.

[Susano]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

I recall that Greens and Blues did seem to be of lesser intelligence as well.

[RexMundi]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

Ruth however, was blazingly smart. As for Canth, he didn't feel like showing off how smart he actually was. I'm not so sure though that it's much a factor of Lower or Higher IQ for the various colors, as it is, Better Short Term memory, and the ability to Articulate. It's not a Human Brain after all.

 

~Rex

[Susano]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

Ruth however, was blazingly smart. As for Canth, he didn't feel like showing off how smart he actually was. I'm not so sure though that it's much a factor of Lower or Higher IQ for the various colors, as it is, Better Short Term memory, and the ability to Articulate. It's not a Human Brain after all.

 

~Rex

 

Yes, well Ruth was very much an anomaly, being a White dragon. Since INT doesn't equal IQ, but does equal speed of thought, one could give Greens and Blues an 8, Browns a 10, Bronze a 13, and Golds a 15. Ruth could be 15-20. Also, Greens and Blues probably have Near-Human Intelligence, Browns, Bronze, Golds, and Ruth seem to have Human Intelligence.

 

Man, it's been years since I read the books... I don't even own them anymore. I had the SFBC Dragonriders of Pern omnibus, and loved the Harperhalls trilogy back in Middle School. I'm not sure I went beyond those six though. I can't recall if I read any of the later volumes.

[RexMundi]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

That feels about the right spread really. The Dragons always felt like they had a Parrot kind of Smart, not so much a Human kind of smart but the scenes with Canth always cracked me up when he starts showing off his abilities and his brain power, when confronted about it, Canth basically gives the "Wasn't entertaining enough for me to reveal it then" excuse. Definitely a lot of Instinct drive there as well they do have a lot of Instinct Programming, so some things we would need to think about doing, they just do.

 

~Rex

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

Definitely a lot of Instinct drive there as well they do have a lot of Instinct Programming' date=' so some things we would need to think about doing, they just do.[/quote']

 

And probably vice versa.

[RexMundi]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

The Dragons Do have some pretty serious Environmental resistances, at least as far as Between, and other Chilly things. Still, they also need to be groomed a lot as well. More things to think about, and I'l still leaning more towards Extra Dimensional Movement rather then teleportation. Just got to figure a good way to write it up yet that gives all the effects without having a point total somewhere between Infintiy Man and Dr. Destroyer.

 

~Rex

[Susano]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

EDM lets them teleport through time and to the Red Star, but you're not supposed to sue that to teleport around a planet. So perhaps a Between Multipower? EDM, short range teleport and Megascaled Teleport?

[mwiggins]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

One of the limitations of the dragon/human bond is that the dragon gets much of thier intelagance and memory from the human. if their rider is mentaly incapacitated (high fever) the dragon wont be able to think very clearly. In the renagades of Pern (?) Jaxom gets sick while on the southern contanant. Ruth had the presance of mind to call for help. It was stated that most dragons wouldn't have known what to do.

Maybe the dragon has a low(ish) INT but uses the riders INT through the bond.

it is also stated that the Dragon chooses the rider. The bronze riders tend to be smarter than a green rider.

[mwiggins]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

"Between" is characterized by extreme cold (far below zero yet not as cold as outer space)

In "All the weyrs of Pern" it is stated the Between is colder than space. Of course the human only takes it for a few seconds (measured as 8 seconds in Dragonsdawn) and dresses warmly.

[dmjalund]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

I think - that like in space, it is not that easy to freeze at there is no "air" to conduct heat away

[Susano]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

Uhm... I recall people coming out of Between very cold... very cold. Didn't someone come out of Between coated in frost once?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

I think - that like in space' date=' it is not that easy to freeze at there is no "air" to conduct heat away[/quote']

 

In space you use heat very quickly not due to conduction but due to radiation. It's a very, very black 4 Kelvin (-269 C) or so out there to which your heat is radiated. Of course, you might also gain quite a bit from sunlight, so it depends a bit on where you are. And there are other things to worry about too in space such as lack of air pressure. So even a very cold fictional environment might be difficult to compare to "space".

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Dragon-riders of Pern

 

Another dimension, maybe with different physical laws. It ain't Space, it's ... something else.