Velocity and area of effect attacks

[Matt Holck]

Area effect attacks roll to hit a hex.

This hex is considered 3 DCV(Defensive combat value) and thus fairly easy to hit

A moving target hex should be harder to hit.

If the area of effect is aimed at the hex, a moving target is in that hex should be harder to hit.

Unfortunately, Hero Game phases move the character all at once ending in a non-moving hex.

In HTH(hand to hand) combat, this makes sense if the Hero stops to punch the villain in the nose.

This segment movement does not simulate ranged combat where targets are often moving.

 

I think that

The moving hexes DCV can be determine by adding the velocity chart DCV to it.

A target whose last action was a full move

could multiply that move by its speed to determine the DCV velocity bonus to the moving hex it occupies

until the beginning to that characters next phase .

 

Velocity
hexes per turn     DCV bonus to moving hex
1-32                   +1 (hex DCV 4)
33-44                  +2 (hex DCV 5)
45-64                  +3 (hex DCV 6)
65-90                  +4 (hex DCV 7)
91-128                 +5 (hex DCV 8)
129-180                +6 (hex DCV 9)
181-256                +7 (hex DCV 10)

I added in the even DCV bonuses so people will pay closer attention to how fast the target moves.

 

Also when a character makes a half move and attacks with a ranged attack,

they can optionally declare the are taking a "passing shot" at -1 OCV (offensive combat value) thus less likely to hit

where their half move times their speed would be considered velocity movement for the hex they occupy

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

I hate to say it, but this looks like another case of a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.

It only serves to give additional bonuses to speedsters.

 

Another side effect of using such a rule would be to increase the cost of building an 'Always Hits' ability (like Superman's Heat-Vision or Cyclop's Eye-Beams) which can currently be modeled by combining AOE 1 Hex Accurate & No Range Modifier (or Line of Sight). That's a total of +1 Advantages right now (NOT cheap by any measure). What do you think the value of 'Always Hits' should be increased to (to counter your proposed option)?

[the fox]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

err, don't you already get a -1 for a half-move and attack? what other conditions need apply? would that be for an additional -1?

 

have you read my article, 'Return of the 1" Half-Move; Move and Attack!'? I consider it satire, for it contains every possible reason to 'overturn' a small exception in the rules,

and show how it's not needed, that the ability is already limited!

now you don't need to go to all this trouble! Sure, on the face of it, hitting a moving target with a one hex AoE should be harder, but aren't you paying for this utility,

to strike whoever's in that hex? The rules approximate this with scatter (which especially limits one hex AoE attacks' so that's a proportional approximation), rather than timing.

Rather than say, oh, the timing of the attack was off by a fraction of second, we say the attack scatters to a different location, like we have to roll to hit an adjacent hex or something!

So, yes, I consider it an approximation, but a good one, one that negates the ability to 'simply twist out of the way of, with a high enough DCV'.

besides all maneuvers and movement already have modifiers, so I don't feel the need to give anything away!

most of this is already covered with DCV, CSL's and Maneuver Bonuses, and Non-Combat Movement.

 

I consider the ability to dodge ranged attacks akin to having diamond hard skin(high PD, ED), and cumulative!

So if i consider my characters 'balanced' in this regard, and your rule logical and inevitable, defenses would be lowered due to movement powers 'defending' more.

Pulsar could be considered "Dodging' while he's flying around, attacking? More so than base DCV?

So you have a formula based on hexes per turn, to determine your true velocity; are you assuming a constant velocity?

From now on, I'll assume you have no DCV bonuses when your in a 'non-moving' hex. Move and Attack! -1 OCV, current maneuver.

[Daltwisney]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

I hate to say it, but this looks like another case of a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.

It only serves to give additional bonuses to speedsters.

 

Not just speedsters, Granny in her walker gives her hex a 4 DCV, even moving at a mighty 1m/TURN.

[Daltwisney]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

err, don't you already get a -1 for a half-move and attack? what other conditions need apply? would that be for an additional -1?

 

No, the -1 OCV for a Half-move went away in 5th, it hasn't returned for 6E.

[Matt Holck]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

The -1 OCV is the penalty for talking a shot while remaining in motion

 

I hate to say it, but this looks like another case of a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.

It only serves to give additional bonuses to speedsters.

 

Another side effect of using such a rule would be to increase the cost of building an 'Always Hits' ability (like Superman's Heat-Vision or Cyclop's Eye-Beams) which can currently be modeled by combining AOE 1 Hex Accurate & No Range Modifier (or Line of Sight). That's a total of +1 Advantages right now (NOT cheap by any measure). What do you think the value of 'Always Hits' should be increased to (to counter your proposed option)?

 

The same advantage modifier the martial artist takes for always missed

 

It serves as a bonus to 4 speed dragons with 15" flight

6 DCV of the moving hex .

It provides another why for low defense characters to deal with area of effects without resorting to dive for cover.

 

Not just speedsters' date=' Granny in her walker gives her hex a 4 DCV, even moving at a mighty 1m/TURN.[/quote']

 

I found that odd too I think the minimum should be set at 10" per turn

that way a normal has +1 DCV to its target hex when in full run at 12" a turn

 

That could be set as the base level velocity at 10.

10 is a convenient starting point because people could easily calculate the doubling of velocity 10, 20, 40, 80, 160 each doubling indicating a DCV +2 that starts at +1 for 10" movement per turn

These DCV values +1,+3,+5,+7,+9

If the base value ten steps 2 DCV points per doubling a base value ten also

because the square root of two is approximately 1.41 at that marks a single step on the DCV based on velocity step

so the even DCV bonus would be doublings starting at 14"

so 10

Velocity
hexes per turn     DCV bonus to moving hex
10-13                 +1 (hex DCV 4)
14-19                 +2 (hex DCV 5)
20-27                 +3 (hex DCV 6)
28-39                 +4 (hex DCV 7)
40-55                 +5 (hex DCV 8)
56-79                 +6 (hex DCV 9)
80-111                +7 (hex DCV 10)

[the fox]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

This is increasing all scatters based on the fastest person crossing the area, no?

Or does each hex get it's own attack roll? One roll applied to each DCV of hex?

Also, the -1 OCV is the penalty for talking a shot while 'remaining in motion' would give your opponents this penalty, 'bonus to moving hex'?

 

Sorry, I didn't know the half-move modifier is now gone; I suppose they wanted to get rid of the distinction!

that's alright, a -1 OCV isn't very important. 'Only' a +1 DCV, however, is important*, especially coupled with a whole new ability- to dodge AoE(*!!).

*balancing characters; what should there PD, ED be?

 

As far as 'not having to resort to Dive for Cover', what your proposing is give some of this, not based on DEX but SPD and move, without action cost?

As it's set now, looks like you need a good DEX to 'dive' and it really helps to have a high SPD, too, doubly so.

Such a shame to waste some of your SPD on this! Perhaps you'd rather 'tough it out'; most Area Effects do limited damage.

Actually, they all do if you use an AP cap equal to DC cap in points plus 1/4 (15 DC = 75 pts. +1/4 = 93 .75 or 94 points).

[Matt Holck]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

there is an action cost , the character must execute a movement

 

though a high speed with dive for cover should suffice

the target ends up prone at half DCV after the dive for cover

a coordinate team then shots the target with non area of effect attack

[dmjalund]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

I believe we are trying to simulate the difficulty required to make sure that the hex your aiming for is one that the target is passing through.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

I believe we are trying to simulate the difficulty required to make sure that the hex your aiming for is one that the target is passing through.

 

That sounds like a good time to require Perception Roll with negative modifiers unless the character has Rapid for that sense.

 

Here's an example of this:

"I'll run circles around this super-oaf"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAYUWSFxEDg

 

Flash circles around Superman to show off for the crowd.

(Call it non-combat movement with No Turn Mode)

Superman watches for a second to see exactly where Flash is and then quickly sticks his arm out and stops Flash cold.

(Call it a combination of Rapid sight and an HA w/ AOE 1 Hex Accurate that he's 'Pulling a Punch')

[Matt Holck]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

if a character always hits

they can buy OCV to do it

 

another trick is based on ego combat value

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

if a character always hits

they can buy OCV to do it

 

another trick is based on ego combat value

So it's acceptable to model a character with an increased chance to hit with Based on Ego CV, regardless of SFX, but not with AoE, even if the SFX specifically calls for it?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

Why is Teleportation being left out of the fun?

At its base it costs the same as Flight or Running.

 

Maybe it's because movement powers are primarily intended to move a character from point A to point B.

If a player wants to make his fast moving character's current hex always be hard to hit maybe he should purchase a sense affecting power to make it hard to determine what hex the character is actually in when moving.

[Matt Holck]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

They could call the power "Remains in Motion"

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

I'd favor this as an option, but I'd prolly do it as a -1/4 Lim, similar to "Beam", to reflect that it's certainly not the case with all Area attack SFX but very applicable to many of them. This is another of those instances, much like Autofire, where the game rules don't, by default, really model many real world effects all that well straight out of the box

[the fox]

Re: Velocity and area of effect attacks

 

I'm sorry, 5th ed. GM Screen lists "Character avoids attack; Abort" only for effects of Dive for Cover while Sidekick lacks optional maneuvers altogether.

Not that I don't believe it! But there are alternatives to Dive for Cover, fall on your face

How about another roll to stay on your feet? May Breakfall be used for this, or Acrobatics?

If not, how about Aborting to Movement? 'primarily defensive' should allow you to move in any direction, even behind or above your opponent, no?

If not, then there's Held Actions; either a phase or 1/2 phase held to interrupt other actions later in the segment or occasionally more.

 

Velocity Relative Modifier (VRM rule?) or Relative Phase Modifier (RPM rule)- The defensive modifier you should get for running side to side relative to the observer, which actually increases the closer to the observer you are and reachest it's highest value for a given velocity when you are running the smallest possible circle around said observer.

 

Actually measurable as relative 'rotations' per unit time, it may be presumed previously ignored due to negligible effects in most combat. Make it so!