Blindness and CSLs

[The Suave]

When a character is blind he is at 0 OCV and 1/2 DCV (or something). If a character who is blind (without any extra targeting senses or powers etc) makes an attack, can he apply his CSLs to the attack?

 

My inclination is no, but I didn't see any specifics in the rules. I only have Diet Hero for the purposes of this question, because the Dark Champions books don't really touch on the issue (as far as I've seen).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Blindness and CSLs

 

Certainly they can. However, multiplying CVs by half or zero usually (in the default rules) happens after all additive modifiers like CSLs. So applying levels to OCV is pointless if it is going to be dropped to zero, or only half effective if you've located them with a non-targetting sense (1/2 OCV). You can always house rule that certain modifiers apply after the multiplication though (to me it makes a lot more sense for size modifiers than for CSLs, but YMMV).

[pinecone]

Re: Blindness and CSLs

 

I certainly don't see why not...for me the game is about heros, so being able to fight while blind does not bother me at all. I've always allowed them to add after adjustment, and nothing ever burst into flame.

 

Although levels in general are a "poor buy" so most characters don't have very many. If you have the Gawd of Swords! with +10 w/Swords he'll seem awfully Gawdly, but he Should, he's the Gawd of Swords!....

[Rapier]

Re: Blindness and CSLs

 

With the caveat that sfx, common sense and decency rule all.

 

If the CSLs are "he is a great swordsman" then most certainly they should apply.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Blindness and CSLs

 

By the book, if your CVs are going to be halved or otherwise adjusted by a percentage (setting to 0 counts), that's the last step in the calculation and happens after you've applied your skill levels already.

 

Now, you could come up with a house rule that states that Combat Skill Levels apply after that notionally 'final' step instead of their usual one, I suppose. It's your campaign (I presume ). Just keep in mind that such a rule will make CSLs more generally useful while lessening the impact of other factors in turn -- for example, if you have a couple of skill levels that apply fully even when blinded, then being able to succeed at that PER roll or having an extra sense to cover for your blindness immediately matter that much less.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Blindness and CSLs

 

But does being blind automatically put you at 0 OCV? You can still use a non-Targeting sense at 1/2 OCV, as someone mentioned above, can't you?

[Chimera 12]

Re: Blindness and CSLs

 

But does being blind automatically put you at 0 OCV? You can still use a non-Targeting sense at 1/2 OCV' date=' as someone mentioned above, can't you?[/quote']

 

If you can't perceive an opponent with a Targeting Sense, you're at 1/2 OCV and DCV in hand-to-hand and at 0 OCV and 1/2 DCV at range. You can take a half-phase action to try to pick out a particular target with a non-Targeting Sense; if your PER roll succeeds, then against that target only you're at 1/2 OCV and -1 DCV in hand-to-hand and 1/2 OCV and full DCV at range until the beginning of your next Phase.

 

So, you only get that 0 OCV when trying to hit things you can't draw a bead on via non-Targeting senses at range. Which, I have to admit, strikes me as kind of appropriate... Also, the main benefits of making that PER roll appear to be defensive in nature; your DCV goes up in both cases (to nearly full or full, respectively), your OCV only at range (and then only to half normal).

 

All of the above assumes that the character hasn't bought any relevant Enhanced Senses or the Combat Sense Talent, of course.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Blindness and CSLs

 

In that case, I wouldn't allow CSLs to raise your OCV from 0 without making the appropriate PER check, and if you succeed at the PER roll than you aren't at 0 OCV anymore anyway, so add them before halving OCV just like normal. I'm not sure I understand why this is an issue at all...

[The Suave]

Re: Blindness and CSLs

 

My important take-away from this thread is that the halving (or setting to 0) of CVs occurs after the allocation of CSLs.

 

That makes sense, and completely solves my problem. Thanks amigos!

[Matt Holck]

Re: Blindness and CSLs

 

I certainly don't see why not...for me the game is about heros, so being able to fight while blind does not bother me at all. I've always allowed them to add after adjustment, and nothing ever burst into flame.

 

Although levels in general are a "poor buy" so most characters don't have very many. If you have the Gawd of Swords! with +10 w/Swords he'll seem awfully Gawdly, but he Should, he's the Gawd of Swords!....

 

indeed

in my game I am pretty liberal by what levels can be applied to

to differentiate them from just buying straight combat value