Newbie Q: Lassos and Nets

[shirosan]

Hi everybody,

 

I'm just getting into the HERO System and am planning on running a mini-campaign featuring the PCs as gladiators in Ancient Rome. I've got a handle on combat, maneuvers, etc. What I'm interested in is anyone's take(s) on lariats and nets as combat weapons. Being a HERO noob, I'm still acquainting myself with the powers system and I'd like to see other peoples' examples of building weapons with powers.

 

I'm thinking Entangle as a base, then what? Would Grab (like with the whip) be better for lariat? Any online or print sources would be welcome as well.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

-David

[Steve Long]

Nets are typically done as Entangles. Some people add Entangle And Character Both Take Damage (+1/4). OAF (-1) and Range Based On STR (-1/4) are appropriate Limitations.

 

Lassos are a little trickier. My preference is to define them as Telekinesis, OAF (-1), Limited Range (no more than 6" or so; -1/4), Only To Grab (-1) (you might also add Limitations restricting the size of what can be Grabbed). Another possibility is a Limited form of Stretching, possibly with extra STR only to Grab, but that raises the uncomfortable question of why the lasso's STR for purposes of Grabbing people varies based on the STR of the person wielding it.

 

These are, however, just my own ideas. I'm sure other posters will have suggestions of their own.

[Dr Divago]

O_O

The Creator

O_O

the original...

i'm so excited! :) :)

Originally posted by Steve Long

Lassos are a little trickier. My preference is to define them as Telekinesis, OAF (-1), Limited Range (no more than 6" or so; -1/4), Only To Grab (-1) (you might also add Limitations restricting the size of what can be Grabbed). Another possibility is a Limited form of Stretching, possibly with extra STR only to Grab, but that raises the uncomfortable question of why the lasso's STR for purposes of Grabbing people varies based on the STR of the person wielding it.

 

Well i think this is best solution (i'm not very practical in hero system and this is THE CREATOR ) but...

whay don't use "Entangle" even with the lasso?

[Insaniac99]

but using an entangle doesn't get the drag person to where you are...

 

personally, for a Lasso, I'd model it as Stretching: OAF, and maybe a few otehr choice limits...

[JmOz]

I use streatching for whips and lariets, the reason is this, it is easier to get out of a lasso if a 10 year old is holding it, than if arnold is (At a certain point it is easier to break the lasso that to make it have the slack you need to get out)

[shirosan]

Yeah, I'm thinking Stretching w/ the lasso as well. Variable STR, as mentioned, strikes me as realistic enough--one needs strength to effectively hold and control a "roped" person. I'll try it out and see how it works.

 

Thanks for all the great tips!

 

-d.

[Tom Carman]

Originally posted by Insaniac99

but using an entangle doesn't get the drag person to where you are...

 

personally, for a Lasso, I'd model it as Stretching: OAF, and maybe a few otehr choice limits...

I'm fairly certain that Western Hero has a writeup for a lasso (along with throwing people thru windows, sliding people down the length of a bar, fighting on top of wagons and stagecoaches, etc.). But my copy's at home and I'm at work.

[Talon]

I'll see if I rescued my copy of Western Hero (which was one of the best 4th Edition sourcebooks, IMO). If so, I'll post what it has to say tomorrow.

[Cybernaut]

Net:

Entangle, possibly a 1 Hex AoE, doesn't protect entangled character, OAF, 1 recoverable charge, other limitations to taste.

 

Lasso:

Multipower with Stretching, Swinging, and an Entangle.

[Tom Carman]

Originally posted by Tom Carman

I'm fairly certain that Western Hero has a writeup for a lasso (along with throwing people thru windows, sliding people down the length of a bar, fighting on top of wagons and stagecoaches, etc.). But my copy's at home and I'm at work.

The book doesn't actually have a full Power description of a lariat. According to a chart of weapons, it is a melee weapon with a long reach, STR Min 4, Only able to Grab, and does no damage (unless you're using the rope as a garrote). Stretching is probably the best fit as a Power, since Telekinesis is specifically disallowed from having the sort of action/reaction involved in grabbing something with a loop of rope.

[Steve Long]

Stretching is probably the best fit as a Power, since Telekinesis is specifically disallowed from having the sort of action/reaction involved in grabbing something with a loop of rope.

 

This is a good point. But I still don't think Stretching or the like works, because then you end up with varying STR for something that should pretty much have the same STR no matter who wields it. Otherwise you'd have to come up with some odd power constructs involving Limited STR.

 

I'd suggest waiving the action/reaction rule in this situation instead; it makes sense and doesn't do any real violence to game balance. I'll try to remember to write up a Rules FAQ entry discussing this this subject -- or include it in the Electrified Lariat entry in Gadgets And Gear.

[CorpCommander]

Originally posted by Steve Long

But I still don't think Stretching or the like works, because then you end up with varying STR for something that should pretty much have the same STR no matter who wields it.

 

I have to disagree. The strength of the wielder is monumentally important. I wouldn't want to see a ten year old have the same ability to lasso and hold onto an enraged bull as, say, Hoss from Bonanza! The Lasso should give you a strength bonus due to the overall mechanics involved but even so, if I were lassoed by the 10 year old, that kid would be going for a drag. Their 80lbs would not be much of a match for my 215lbs.

 

Unless of course you are talking cinematically. That changes everything. If so then you are right -- in the movies things don't work that way.

[Steve Long]

I don't agree with that. The STR with which one drags a lassoed person around may depend on the character, but the STR with which he's Grabbed really depends on the tensile strength of the rope itself, which is better reflected by (a) a predefined amount of STR not linked to the user's STR, and ( the rules for breaking Foci. A kid may not be able to hold on with as much STR, but assuming he can wield the lasso, his lasso is just as good at tying up someone as a large adult's.

 

It's easy enough to get around this difficulty with an appropriate -0 Limitation: STR For Moving Grabbed Characters Equals User's STR Or STR Of Rope, Whichever Is Less. (Someone else wrote this as "Variable STR," which is a fine shorthand if there's text to explain it. )

 

As for being dragged along by a stronger victim, I addressed that in my last post. In fact, I already added a section to my Electrified Lariat writeup discussing the inadvisability of lassoing Grond.

 

One other possibility that occurred to me was an Entangle + Linked Stretching. That, however, raises the ugly prospect of Linking a Constant Power to an Instant one. Some GMs might let it slide, though, on the grounds that an Entangle "lingers" -- once the victim escapes, the Stretching ends as well.

 

This is a fun topic; I'm glad shirosan raised it. I can get a HEROglyphs column out of this, I bet.

[CorpCommander]

Originally posted by Steve Long

but the STR with which he's Grabbed really depends on the tensile strength of the rope itself,

 

Ah Sensei! There is a reason why You are Master and we are but humble servents!

 

[Killer Shrike]

Defining a lasso as a Power, Id go with Extra Limb with Limited Manipulation, Stretching linked to it, and Entangle (Vulnerable to Sharp Objects) Cannot form Barriers, etc linked to it as well; OAF Durable.

 

As far as breaking the rope, Id treat that as attacking a Focus.

 

For a character that can do "Rope tricks", Id go with either a Multipower with Lockout slots or a custom Ranged Martial Art (WE: Lariat).

 

As a weapon/piece of Equipment, Id just build it as a Reach weapon that can be used with Grab manuevers.

[zornwil]

Without this discussion I'd probably go with Entangle with linked Stretching, primarily based on the action/reaction thing, but with a Stretching limitation "cannot push" (as in pushing the object, not pushing the stretching power) unless the lasso has more fantastic capabilities. That seems to me to better account for the ways in which you move the Entangled object. The one thing that bothers me re Stretching is that it also normally allows for damage to the Stretcher, so that's actually an "Advantage' to that power. Of course you could, I suppose, have "Indirect Stretching" but that makes my head hurt if you want to wrap that around a lasso - just too many complications with "Indirect", bad fit, so I'd throw that out.

 

But Steve's case for TK is pretty solid, although there is then an added lim of "must be able to physically reach across intervening space" (which sounds more like Stretching, but it does eliminate some Stretch issues). But I don't have 5th in front of me and this might be covered intrinsically somehow - still, most powers will see that as a limitation to the power.

 

As to the squeezing issue - well, I'd want to know more about the lasso's use in this form. Does the character whip it with such force (STR-based) that it wraps around and can squeeze the victim? Or is it more "normal" and merely is an entangle, possibly with a set damage atached if it does constrict per its natural material strength, with the added benefit of the line to the character?

 

I think either way it's a slightly (but not very) awkward construct in HERO.

[prestidigitator]

Originally posted by zornwil

The one thing that bothers me re Stretching is that it also normally allows for damage to the Stretcher, so that's actually an "Advantage' to that power. Of course you could, I suppose, have "Indirect Stretching" but that makes my head hurt if you want to wrap that around a lasso - just too many complications with "Indirect", bad fit, so I'd throw that out.

I would say this depends a lot on the Special Effects, and whether or not the power is bought through a Focus. There are plenty of weapons (see the hand-to-hand weapons section in the back of the book) which provide extra reach using Stretching. I think of it this way: even if you cannot damage the character, you can damage the focus, thereby depriving the attacker of the attack for a while. By the way, the Stretching power has an Advantage Does Not Cross Intervening Space, which is similar in some regards to Indirect.