Sx help: Name that pistol!

[McCoy]

I'm designing a character who is a policeman. I've stated out the mechanics of his weapons, but for Special effect purposes I need to find out what Real World sidearms I'm describing.

 

His issue sidearm, the one carried openly in uniform, is a 2d6 RKA, holds six rounds to a clip, and he carries 4 clips, counting the one already in the weapon. "Clip" can be a speed loader for a revolver or a magazine for an automatic. Personally I think there are advantages to revolvers, but I'm not aware of any major city PD in the US that still issues them. This weapon is unmodified, standard issue (specifically: designed for the right-handed majority).

 

His backup / off duty weapon is carried concealed in his waistband at the small of his back. It is a 1 1/2 d6 RKA holding 8 rounds, he carries no extra ammo. It was either ordered or modified for left handed use. (Character is left handed.) Holster is NOT rigged for fast draw. (Character believes he cannot be surprised, long story.)

 

Thanks in advance for those Heroes with gun-fu or google-fu rolls strong enough to name those pistols!

[Rapier]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

A number of the PDs in our area are issued with Glocks.

 

A couple of cop friends use revolvers as their 'off-duty/backup weapon.' They are frequently .38s. Smaller and lighter.

 

Hope that helps some.

[Daltwisney]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

I can't help too much with converting the stats you gave to real world guns, however, according to most of the Hero books I own, you are looking at some pretty hefty handguns. Most 'standard' Handgun lists top out at 2d6 or 2d6+1, with most being around 1d6+1.

 

For something around the 2D6 range, you'd be looking at the equivalent of a Desert Eagle (7 shot clips) or Colt Peacemaker (Revolver).

 

Now, if it was 3d6 or so, you might try an .88 Magnum. I hear they shoot through schools.

[Brother Jim]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

Glock 36 is a .45 ACP with a 6 round clip, which could work as the issued weapon.

[McCoy]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

I can't help too much with converting the stats you gave to real world guns' date=' however, according to most of the Hero books I own, you are looking at some pretty hefty handguns. Most 'standard' Handgun lists top out at 2d6 or 2d6+1, with most being around 1d6+1.[/quote']

Sometimes I wonder about that. Realize the system is about genre conventions and drama trumps realism, but on a 2d6 RKA you only have a 7/36 chance to roll 10 BODY or more. Shouldn't a single gunshot kill Joe Normal more than 19% of the time?

 

For something around the 2D6 range' date=' you'd be looking at the equivalent of a Desert Eagle (7 shot clips) or Colt Peacemaker (Revolver).[/quote']

Thanks!

 

Now' date=' if it was 3d6 or so, you might try an .88 Magnum. I hear they shoot through schools.[/quote']

"It's a 50 caliber. They used to use it to hunt buffalo with... up close! It's only legal in two states. And this isn't one of them."

[Rapier]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

Sometimes I wonder about that. Realize the system is about genre conventions and drama trumps realism' date=' but on a 2d6 RKA you only have a 7/36 chance to roll 10 BODY or more. Shouldn't a single funshot kill Joe Normal more than 19% of the time?[/quote']

 

In a heroic campaign, Hit Locations are not unusual and Head/Vitals hits are x2 BODY. Also remember that your 'average joe' only has 8 BODY to being with. There are also the bleeding rules to consider.

 

You are correct in that most handguns aren't going to land you in an insta-kill situation, with our default ruleset, but there are optional rules that provide a great deal more realism that can do that job.

[McCoy]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

In a heroic campaign, Hit Locations are not unusual and Head/Vitals hits are x2 BODY. Also remember that your 'average joe' only has 8 BODY to being with. There are also the bleeding rules to consider.

 

You are correct in that most handguns aren't going to land you in an insta-kill situation, with our default ruleset, but there are optional rules that provide a great deal more realism that can do that job.

"Rule #2: double tap."

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

His issue sidearm' date=' the one carried openly in uniform, is a 2d6 RKA, holds six rounds to a clip, and he carries 4 clips, counting the one already in the weapon. "Clip" can be a speed loader for a revolver or a magazine for an automatic. Personally I think there are advantages to revolvers, but I'm not aware of any major city PD in the US that still issues them. This weapon is unmodified, standard issue (specifically: designed for the right-handed majority).[/quote']

 

Gun #1 is a .44 Magnum. As a revolver, it could be a Colt Anaconda, a Llama Super Comanche, or a S&W 29. I don't think there are any automatics with a magazine that size in that caliber. (A .44 Automag holds 7.)

 

His backup / off duty weapon is carried concealed in his waistband at the small of his back. It is a 1 1/2 d6 RKA holding 8 rounds, he carries no extra ammo.

 

Odd choice. A Colt Double Eagle fits, as does the AMT Javelina (both 10mm). The H&K P-11 also fits the mechanics, but uses an unusual cartridge (7.62x36mm flechette).

 

If I was building a cop, he's probably use a Glock 17L as a primary weapon with a Colt Python for backup.

[Rapier]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

"Rule #2: double tap."

 

Hellz yeah! And one to the brain pan as they lay on the floor just to make sure they stay there!

[Greywind]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

Hellz yeah! And one to the brain pan as they lay on the floor just to make sure they stay there!

Preemptive on them coming back as zombies?

[McCoy]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

Gun #1 is a .44 Magnum. As a revolver, it could be a Colt Anaconda, a Llama Super Comanche, or a S&W 29. I don't think there are any automatics with a magazine that size in that caliber. (A .44 Automag holds 7.)

 

 

 

Odd choice. A Colt Double Eagle fits, as does the AMT Javelina (both 10mm). The H&K P-11 also fits the mechanics, but uses an unusual cartridge (7.62x36mm flechette).

 

If I was building a cop, he's probably use a Glock 17L as a primary weapon with a Colt Python for backup.

Wow. Can just imagine explaing a flechette round to a Shooting Review Committee.

 

Did not even know they made a 10mm round. Shows how well I've been keeping up with State of the Art.

[McCoy]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

OK, we have a winner!

 

Primary / issue weapon: Glock 36 .45ACP, standard right-hand configuration but worn on his left hip and used left-handed.

 

Backup / off duty weapon: Colt Double Eagle Mk II 10mm, modified for left-handed operation, carried concealed in his waistband at the small of his back. Too bad the Commander model was never available in 10mm.

 

Many thank yous and rep to those who offered their input!

[Remjin]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

Primary / issue weapon: Glock 36 .45ACP' date=' standard right-hand configuration but worn on his left hip and used left-handed. [/quote']

You are aware that a Glock 36 is actually a back-up weapon in the sub-compact class, right? .45 ACP is 2d6-1 standard. The only pistols with 2d6 with .45 ACP are glocks and H&Ks, for some reason. I'm guessing becaue of the polygonal rifling. Steve seems to have some sort of oddness about certain features being pretty significantly advantaged. 6 shots in an auto is kind of rare, but ignoring the odd 2d6-1/2d6 damage thing, An Officer's 1911 used to be a 6 shot, though that is also a tad smaller. Were you supposed to be a detective? That would fit better for the Glock 36 as well. Make it 8 shots and you have most 1911's these days, though it is somewhat uncommon for police to carry them, some departments do allow it. Kahr arms also makes some compact .45s that may fit this bill. Still, as someone else mentioned, the .44 Magnum revolver is still a pretty likely condidate, as is the .45 ACP revolver, which came in a variety of configurations, but all on large frames w/ 6 shot cylinders.

 

Backup / off duty weapon: Colt Double Eagle Mk II 10mm, modified for left-handed operation, carried concealed in his waistband at the small of his back. Too bad the Commander model was never available in 10mm.

10mm 1911s are prevalent nowadays. Most major manufacturers make them in 9mm, 10mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP with .38 Super becoming more common. There's also the Bren Ten (Miami Vice guy used one). They come full, commander, and officer sizes depending on company. Heck, Springfield Armory makes a mini-compact 9mm with modified frame for the smaller cartridges. It started as a .45 GAP (slightly shorter .45 ACP somewhat equivalent) and I believe it might also come in .40 S&W now.

 

Sorry to have come late to the party. =)

[Rapier]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

I'm surprised your Gun-dar didn't go off a bit earlier, myself.

[Remjin]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

I'm surprised your Gun-dar didn't go off a bit earlier' date=' myself.[/quote']

It doesn't help that I've been reading up on the gun forums lately... if you can't tell from my post above, I've been reading a lot about 1911s.

[McCoy]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

You are aware that a Glock 36 is actually a back-up weapon in the sub-compact class' date=' right? [/quote']

If I was would I have asked the question? All I know about the pistol is in this thread and some Wiki follow-up.

 

Were you supposed to be a detective?

Nope. Uniformed officer with K-9 partner.

 

6 shots in an auto is kind of rare' date=' but ignoring the odd 2d6-1/2d6 damage thing, An Officer's 1911 used to be a 6 shot, though that is also a tad smaller. Were you supposed to be a detective? That would fit better for the Glock 36 as well. Make it 8 shots and you have most 1911's these days, though it is somewhat uncommon for police to carry them, some departments do allow it. Kahr arms also makes some compact .45s that may fit this bill. Still, as someone else mentioned, the .44 Magnum revolver is still a pretty likely condidate, as is the .45 ACP revolver, which came in a variety of configurations, but all on large frames w/ 6 shot cylinders. [/quote']

*looks at Remjin like a dog wondering where the palmed tennis ball went*

 

Let me re-phrase the original question: the math on the game mechanics worked out for a 2d6 RKA with 4 clips of 6 charges each. What firearm likely to be issued by the Police Department of a major metropolitan American city in the first decade of the 21st century is that describing? I have no objection to revolvers (being able to chamber them one-handed is a HUGE advantage IMHO), but my understanding is that most Big City PD's were not issuing them any more. Had I heard wrong?

 

Sorry to have come late to the party. =)

So am I! Would have gotten a lot out of you being here earlier!

[Remjin]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

Well, all in all, I think someone else posted the most correct answer to this... a revolver. Not too many departments issue them anymore, but not many of them disallow them either. A lot of revolvers are still in use, especially by older cops, and are very common as back-up weapons either as a second gun or as a gun he has in case his main weapon is not working for some reason. A lot of departments are requiring their officers to buy their own pistols these days as well, simply giving a list of officially acceptable weapons or at least parameters under which they must fall. I looked it up on a few forums and such, and it appears that they are still being used by some officers and are still on the lists of approved firearms but are optional.

 

Police have moved away from revolvers as a whole for a couple of simple reasons... capacity, training, and weight. More rounds, less training, and less weight with most autos nowadays. Still, some old dogs still prefer 'em, and the occasional youngster from what I hear. I still think they are a perfectly viable firearm (I have several) but require an officer be a bit more competent with their sidearm. I think the S&W 625 or similar would suit your purposes well, being .45 ACP and thus in your damage range. For some retarded reason, .45 ACP is 2d6-1 in some pistols but 2d6 in others.... apparently by whim, since the +1 DC upgrade required from one gun to the next is usually double to quadruple the amount of power, somehow an extra .1% increase in velocity from a polygonal barrel somehow equates to 2-4x the power in the cartridge. (personal pet peeve about the last Dark Champions book, hopefully the new one isn't as stupid about firearms.) *sigh* But, on top of that and more importantly, .45 ACP is still acceptable to a lot of departments while .44 magnum or such is not. =)

[McCoy]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

Well, all in all, I think someone else posted the most correct answer to this... a revolver. Not too many departments issue them anymore, but not many of them disallow them either. A lot of revolvers are still in use, especially by older cops, and are very common as back-up weapons either as a second gun or as a gun he has in case his main weapon is not working for some reason. A lot of departments are requiring their officers to buy their own pistols these days as well, simply giving a list of officially acceptable weapons or at least parameters under which they must fall. I looked it up on a few forums and such, and it appears that they are still being used by some officers and are still on the lists of approved firearms but are optional.

 

Police have moved away from revolvers as a whole for a couple of simple reasons... capacity, training, and weight. More rounds, less training, and less weight with most autos nowadays. Still, some old dogs still prefer 'em, and the occasional youngster from what I hear. I still think they are a perfectly viable firearm (I have several) but require an officer be a bit more competent with their sidearm. I think the S&W 625 or similar would suit your purposes well, being .45 ACP and thus in your damage range. For some retarded reason, .45 ACP is 2d6-1 in some pistols but 2d6 in others.... apparently by whim, since the +1 DC upgrade required from one gun to the next is usually double to quadruple the amount of power, somehow an extra .1% increase in velocity from a polygonal barrel somehow equates to 2-4x the power in the cartridge. (personal pet peeve about the last Dark Champions book, hopefully the new one isn't as stupid about firearms.) *sigh* But, on top of that and more importantly, .45 ACP is still acceptable to a lot of departments while .44 magnum or such is not. =)

You're still hiding the ball from the dog. What I took from that is: Revolvers are no longer issued by most departments, but a significant minority, primary older officers, still use them. Is that what you said?

 

Character is not a rookie, but has at the most seven years as a policeman (more likely six). For character reasons I do not want him to have a distinctive, or even optional, service weapon. What fits the mechanics that is most likely to be standard issue? Not what would be best in Real Life, what would be most likely to be standard issue?

[Remjin]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

You're still hiding the ball from the dog. What I took from that is: Revolvers are no longer issued by most departments, but a significant minority, primary older officers, still use them. Is that what you said?

 

Character is not a rookie, but has at the most seven years as a policeman (more likely six). For character reasons I do not want him to have a distinctive, or even optional, service weapon. What fits the mechanics that is most likely to be standard issue? Not what would be best in Real Life, what would be most likely to be standard issue?

 

I'm sorry, I always get caught up in my own little gun world when I start talking about them. For this, I apologize. Let me make this more clear and lay off the tangents some.

 

Standard Issue is dependent on the individual police department. Many of them no longer issue you a weapon. Chicago PD is a good example. They provide you with a list of weapons that you are allowed to purchase for duty use. Other departments will actually issue you a weapon, assigning you a department purchased pistol for you to use. This weapon varies widely from department to department.

 

What you are describing is a 2d6RKA w/ 4 clips of 6 charges. According to Dark Champions, the only calibers that do 2d6 RKA are: .44 Magnum, .223 Remington, .45 Winchester Magnum, and .45 ACP if from Glock or H&K.

 

Of those calibers, the only one that any police department will issue you in a pistol is the .45 ACP. I have NO idea why that damage value is only assigned to Glocks and H&K's for that caliber. Glocks are standard issue at many departments. H&Ks are uncommon. So that takes the H&K out of the picture.

 

Of those pistols, Glocks or H&Ks, no full or even compact pistol only holds 6 rounds. In effect, no real world duty issue side-arm has the stats you are looking for that I am aware of except for a revolver, which is also uncommon as an issued weapon in the context of what is issued across the country.

 

However, in some individual departments, revolvers still are the issued weapon. Thus they would not be uncommon in that department. Also, having a revolver wouldn't necessarily really make it distinctive in any given department. And, in the end, its the closest thing to what you're asking for.

 

Anything else that had those parameters would NOT be standard issue. Thus the difficulty of the question and also the answer. The most popular police issue weapons are 9mm and .40 S&W, with the most common models being Glocks, S&W, and Springfield Armory XDs. None of these fit your parameters. These are all listed as 1d6+1 or 1d6+2. Capacities range from 12 to 20 rounds.

 

I tried to be clear and not get technical. My apologies if I failed.

[McCoy]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

I'm sorry, I always get caught up in my own little gun world when I start talking about them. For this, I apologize. Let me make this more clear and lay off the tangents some.

 

Standard Issue is dependent on the individual police department. Many of them no longer issue you a weapon. Chicago PD is a good example. They provide you with a list of weapons that you are allowed to purchase for duty use. Other departments will actually issue you a weapon, assigning you a department purchased pistol for you to use. This weapon varies widely from department to department.

 

What you are describing is a 2d6RKA w/ 4 clips of 6 charges. According to Dark Champions, the only calibers that do 2d6 RKA are: .44 Magnum, .223 Remington, .45 Winchester Magnum, and .45 ACP if from Glock or H&K.

 

Of those calibers, the only one that any police department will issue you in a pistol is the .45 ACP. I have NO idea why that damage value is only assigned to Glocks and H&K's for that caliber. Glocks are standard issue at many departments. H&Ks are uncommon. So that takes the H&K out of the picture.

 

Of those pistols, Glocks or H&Ks, no full or even compact pistol only holds 6 rounds. In effect, no real world duty issue side-arm has the stats you are looking for that I am aware of except for a revolver, which is also uncommon as an issued weapon in the context of what is issued across the country.

 

However, in some individual departments, revolvers still are the issued weapon. Thus they would not be uncommon in that department. Also, having a revolver wouldn't necessarily really make it distinctive in any given department. And, in the end, its the closest thing to what you're asking for.

 

Anything else that had those parameters would NOT be standard issue. Thus the difficulty of the question and also the answer. The most popular police issue weapons are 9mm and .40 S&W, with the most common models being Glocks, S&W, and Springfield Armory XDs. None of these fit your parameters. These are all listed as 1d6+1 or 1d6+2. Capacities range from 12 to 20 rounds.

 

I tried to be clear and not get technical. My apologies if I failed.

OK, what I got from this one: The six shot nature makes this weapon a revolver. Revolvers are not standard issue in MOST departments, but may still be standard issue in some. With GM permission, my character may work for one where they are issued, or at least an option chosen by a significant number of officers.

 

OK, let's say it's a revolver. Which one?

[Zeropoint]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

Sounds like he's packing a .44 Magnum revolver to me.

 

The only full size semiauto of which I'm aware which holds only six rounds is the Desert Eagle in .50 AE, and that's hardly a standard issue weapon!

 

Bump it up to seven rounds, and you could have a 1911 in .460 Rowland. It's supposed to have performance very similar to the .44 Magnum, and a standard 1911 can be converted with no permanent modifications. Also, a 1911 with a compensator would probably be able to pass as a standard service weapon.

[Remjin]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

OK' date=' what I got from this one: The six shot nature makes this weapon a revolver. Revolvers are not standard issue in MOST departments, but may still be standard issue in some. With GM permission, my character may work for one where they [i']are[/i] issued, or at least an option chosen by a significant number of officers.

 

OK, let's say it's a revolver. Which one?

 

One that is actually pretty common in police departments and fitting your parameters is a Smith & Wesson 625. You can find plenty of examples in varying styles from the Smith and Wesson Website. The link is for the 625 through their search.

 

A newer revolver becoming popular and marketed to police departments is the Smith and Wesson 325 and its variants which is unique in that it comes with a black matte finish and is fitted with a rail system to attach modern lights and lasers to.

 

Colt hasn't made a .45 ACP revolver since 1917 or so, Ruger and Taurus don't them. In fact, S&W is the only company that routinely has them available that I'm aware of.

 

Sounds like he's packing a .44 Magnum revolver to me.

 

The only full size semiauto of which I'm aware which holds only six rounds is the Desert Eagle in .50 AE, and that's hardly a standard issue weapon!

 

Bump it up to seven rounds, and you could have a 1911 in .460 Rowland. It's supposed to have performance very similar to the .44 Magnum, and a standard 1911 can be converted with no permanent modifications. Also, a 1911 with a compensator would probably be able to pass as a standard service weapon.

 

The problem here is that departments heavily frown on rounds like the .44 Magnum, which has a terrible reputation with the ignorant media. Any non-standard round like the .460 Rowland and others like it are also frowned upon since they aren't standard, and as high powered versions of other cartridges, will be labeled as excessive and otherwise. Thanks to the morons that run the majority of news shows and television in general, the "facts" about firearms have been so obscured by idiotic platitudes that those types of rounds are avoided like the plague by the majority of police departments. Too many "Dirty Harry" references would be inferred with the .44 Magnum, and the .460 Rowland will be seen the same.

 

Putting a compensator on a 1911 would be the price point of a typical pistol beyond that of your average cop and would also make it very distinctive gun that is difficult to find a holster for. Try find a duty holster for any 6" pistol, and your choices will be very limited, much less finding one that your department approves of.

 

Similarly, the Desert Eagle is not only terrible image-wise, its size is a limiting factor meaning that not very many officers would be able to hold it. That pistol is a definite two-hander on grip size, which makes it difficult to do a lot of things... its also mostly looked at as a ridiculous firearm anyway by most professionals due to its unfortunate reputation and use mostly as a movie gun and a overcompensation gun. This is no knock on the Desert Eagle, its just its reputation, and its poor hand fit for most people, that makes this a very rare choice. Its size and weight also makes it border-line for the utility role of a handgun in any case, which is mostly light weight and portability. =)

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

I think we've all been assuming that this character is using standard ammo, and ignoring alternative loads. Dark Champions lists frangible ammo as adding 2 DC, and comments that many police departments use it because it is less likely to overpenetrate and hit a bystander.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

Unfortunately, frangible ammo is also unlikely to penetrate enough to hit a vital organ and stop a bad guy.

 

Edit: Going all the way up to 2d6 pretty much takes you out of the realm of anything that could pass for a standard service pistol. I just can't see any way around that, other than allowing some disconnect between the stats and the gun used.

[McCoy]

Re: Sx help: Name that pistol!

 

One that is actually pretty common in police departments and fitting your parameters is a Smith & Wesson 625. You can find plenty of examples in varying styles from the Smith and Wesson Website. The link is for the 625 through their search.

 

A newer revolver becoming popular and marketed to police departments is the Smith and Wesson 325 and its variants which is unique in that it comes with a black matte finish and is fitted with a rail system to attach modern lights and lasers to.

The dog has found the tennis ball. Thank You Very Much!