Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

[Susano]

in 5E you could use Gradual Effect, but per Hero Designer (at least) you can't apply Damage Over Time to an Entangle. So, how would you create an Entangle that adds dice of effect over a period of time. The special effect is the Entangle is a resinous goo that slowly hardens.

 

Thanks!

[azrad]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

6th edition volume 1 page 218 describes an entangle with the advantage - constant which I think would achieve what you are looking for (although I think you would need to add uncontrolled).

[Susano]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

Thanks! I'll check my PDF (I knew I'd seen something like that before!)

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

This is a nice idea for an Entangle. The simplest way would be a custom limitation, the size being based on how long it takes the resin to harden, but the question would be how much?

 

You could model it with partial limitations on the power. For a 6d6 Entangle say, the first 2d6 happens immediately, the second 2d6 has a 1 turn delay, and the third 2d6 has a 1 minute delay. So your total cost will be 20 + 20/(1½) + 20/(2) = 43 pts. Or to simplify it, you could say that a 60 Active pt power with a Real cost of 43 pts cost is close to what you would get with a -½ limitation, so make your custom limitation -½ and be done with it.

 

If the target can escape the full Entangle by just getting out of the first 2d6, add Linked to the second two Entangles. The the partial limitation route gives 20 + 20/(2) + 20/(2½) = 38 pts. That is still actually pretty close to a -½ limitation, but I'd go with a -¾ partly based on the first example and partly because functionally I think it is probably a bigger limitation than the numbers immediately suggest.

 

Edit: Whoops! I see I have been beat to the punch, and by an official rule!

[Susano]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

Not quite -- here's the 5E build:

 

9	[i]"Being Cocooned Just Like The Others":[/i]  Entangle 4d6, 4 DEF; Extra 
Time (roughly 5 Minutes, -2), Gradual Effect (4 Minutes to fully 
harden; 1d6/Minute; -3/4), No Range (-1/2), Must Follow Grab Or 
Target must be Willing and/or Unable To Resist (-1/4), END 4

 

Using Constant makes the Entangle "harden" too fast (IMO). I like the idea for Extra Time applied to the additional dice, but man, that's going to create a complex build.

[azrad]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

Another idea, you might try something wacky like buying a linked AID to PD/BODY (entangles only, DOT) that will be applied to your entangle when you use it, that will slowly increase its stats (basically your entangle hits your target, then the AID gets applied to it, slowly beefing it up).

[Susano]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

Here's my current solution, used for simplicities sake:

"Being Cocooned Just Like The Others": Entangle 4d6, 4 PD/4 ED; Extra Time (roughly 5 Minutes, -2), Entangle Only Has 1d6 When First Made, And Gains +1d6 per Minute Until It Reaches A Full 4d6. (-1), No Range (-1/2), Must Follow Grab Or Target must be Willing and/or Unable To Resist (-1/4). Total cost: 8 points.

[azrad]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

Aliens?

[Susano]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

Aliens?

 

(sneaky)

Maaaybe.

(/sneaky)

 

[prestidigitator]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

...per Hero Designer (at least) you can't apply Damage Over Time to an Entangle.

 

HD is not a source for rules. There's no such restriction mentioned in 6E1/CC. If you can apply Advantages like Constant and Autofire (without the extra +1 cost even!), I don't see why you couldn't apply Damage Over Time. Besides, what would be the point of such a restriction? If the rules did include it, I know I'd certainly toss that bit out the window.

 

Your initial thought was on-track. Go with DoT.

[Susano]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

HD is not a source for rules. There's no such restriction mentioned in 6E1/CC. If you can apply Advantages like Constant and Autofire (without the extra +1 cost even!)' date=' I don't see why you couldn't apply [i']Damage Over Time[/i]. Besides, what would be the point of such a restriction? If the rules did include it, I know I'd certainly toss that bit out the window.

 

Your initial thought was on-track. Go with DoT.

 

I think I'll ask Steve about that.

[dmjalund]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

sounds like it would be more appropriate to roll the BODY once, but have the PD/ED (DEF for you 5E people) to increase over time

[azrad]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

HD is not a source for rules. There's no such restriction mentioned in 6E1/CC. If you can apply Advantages like Constant and Autofire (without the extra +1 cost even!)' date=' I don't see why you couldn't apply [i']Damage Over Time[/i]. Besides, what would be the point of such a restriction? If the rules did include it, I know I'd certainly toss that bit out the window.

 

Your initial thought was on-track. Go with DoT.

 

Yeah, even if it is a rule that you shouldn't apply DOT to entangle, at least in this case the entangle is not a "combat power" (if you look at the OP's writeup, the target has to be helpless for you to apply the entangle and it takes several minutes to apply it) since it isn't a combat power I wouldn't be too concerned about bending the rules a little for it since it won't be unbalancing.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

Yeah, I was curious about why HD doesn't let you add DoT to an entangle - I can't find any rule for that.

[Susano]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

Here's what Steve said:

 

That's up to the GM. The rules on 6E1 328 specifically refer to DoT being applied to powers that "do damage," even in its discussion of looking beyond Blast and KA. Long ago (3rd Edition, IIRC), there was briefly an Advantage like this specifically for Entangle that let an Entangle keep getting stronger the longer it lasted... and again IIRC, it was pretty quickly removed when it became apparent how abusive it could be. But that's why we have GMs, to evaluate these sort of unusual issues.

 

If nothing else this will make a good discussion point in APG2.

[Rapier]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

Yeah' date=' I was curious about why HD doesn't let you add DoT to an entangle - I can't find any rule for that.[/quote']

 

DoT = DAMAGE Over Time. Entangles don't do damage.

 

There are rules for multiple Entangles. IIRC every new application of an Entangle adds 1 BODY to the Entangle. How you get to than 'new application' is up to you. You can fire again, add AutoFire or a few other builds to do just that.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

DoT = DAMAGE Over Time. Entangles don't do damage.

 

There are rules for multiple Entangles. IIRC every new application of an Entangle adds 1 BODY to the Entangle. How you get to than 'new application' is up to you. You can fire again, add AutoFire or a few other builds to do just that.

 

Damage, Effect, whatever. If it can affect the target again, you can apply DoT to it IMO. I think everyone here has enough common sense and imagination to figure out how to handle it. Obviously some aspects of the Modifier (such as whether defenses apply once or each time) may not be applicable. Otherwise, DoT makes as much sense on Entangle as Autofire or Constant do (and those are specifically mentioned in the text).

[JmOz]

Re: Entangle That Get's Tougher Over Time

 

What about a transform with partial transform