Damage Class, weapons and abilities

[lendrick]

Hey folks

 

Got a quick question for you. Let's say I'm going with the recommended DC cap of 8 in a heroic campaign. If I have a character with a heavy phaser that can put out 6d6 of stun damage, if they use an Offensive Shot (I believe that's the name) which, among other things, adds +4 DC, does that mean they're breaking the cap? Or because they're combining different abilities, do they get a pass? I realize this probably isn't a hard and fast rule either way, but I'm curious what people think in terms of balance.

 

Thanks,

Bart

[Rapier]

Re: Damage Class, weapons and abilities

 

It depends a lot on the campaign. In this case, you could regularly and normally be dishing out 10d6 of damage which could very easily eclipse everyone else.

 

I'd discuss it with your GM. He may lessen the bonus for the maneuver or disallow it entirely.

 

As a rule, I wouldn't allow a player to go over the cap that regularly without some kind of drawback.

[lendrick]

Re: Damage Class, weapons and abilities

 

I'm the GM (or will be, anyway). Since none of us have played Hero 6E (or any iteration), I want to make sure things are reasonably well balanced, and I've got very little sense of how things work.

 

I'll probably knock the damage on the phasor down to a DC 4, just to be safe.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Damage Class, weapons and abilities

 

I'm going to sidestep the question of Damage Caps for a moment and discuss the scale of detail and realism in the campaign as something to consider instead.

 

The damage bonus from Martial Arts maneuvers is typically representative of precision* and technique. In the case of Ranged maneuvers this is even more true as no matter how skilled a user of a handgun is he really isn't increasing the velocity of a bullet (or energy of a phaser). The extra damage is due to the precision of where the bullet or beam hits. This really only makes sense if the campaign setting is not also using the optional Hit Location rules which are also offer a method of using *precision to inflict extra damage (Placed Shots).

 

So the question to ask the GM is "what level of combat detail and realism do you want to use in this game?"

If the answer is "somewhat fast and loose with a cinematic sensibility. We won't be using Hit Locations but fantastic combat effects are possible (like from the movie Wanted)" Then Ranged Martial Art maneuvers might be appropriate.

[lendrick]

Re: Damage Class, weapons and abilities

 

I'm trying to keep things simple the first time around, so we're not going to be doing hit locations. I'm trying to keep things relatively parallel to D&D 3.5/Pathfinder in order get the group comfortable.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Damage Class, weapons and abilities

 

Also keep in mind that characters can use the free Haymaker maneuver with Ranged attacks as well as HTH and it also gives a +4DC bonus.

A Haymaker can't normally be combined with Martial Maneuvers (Ranged or HTH) though.

 

Something else to consider when applying 'Damage Caps'.

[Rapier]

Re: Damage Class, weapons and abilities

 

One thing to also keep in mind is that just because there is a Ranged Martial Maneuver that does +4 DCs doesn't mean that any of the characters have to take it or even that you have to allow it. What HM said about the SFX of Ranged Martial Arts is generally accepted.

 

There is nothing wrong with coming out front and saying "You can't take Offensive Shot." There are a couple of Maneuvers that are only +2DCs.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Damage Class, weapons and abilities

 

One thing else you could do, but adds alittle complexity is allow the roll of 10DC but the max damage is still only 6DC.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Damage Class, weapons and abilities

 

Personally, I use damage caps as the maximum amount of DC that can be bought as part of the power/weapon. Martial & Combat Maneuvers, DC from Combat Skill Levels, etc. all add to that damage. It's worked for me through two separate campaigns.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Damage Class, weapons and abilities

 

There's no "right answer". If I set a DC max of 8DC in my game, I would not allow a character to have abilities which routinely circumvent that limit. Presumably, the cap was set so my game would be based around 8 DC's being the maximum damage, and adding more DC's routinely will mess with the balance of that campaign.

 

There's no end - let's say you allow Off Strike, so he does 10 DC. With experience, he now wants to buy a "Precision Shot" talent that adds another 2 DC's, or some extra DC's with his ranged martial art, so now it's 12 DC.

 

In my games, if the maximum is 8 DC, that is the MAXIMUM. You don't buy abilities in any combination that exceed the maximum.

 

Perhaps it's not really a "maximum" but a "maximum routine DC's". In that case, exceptions would be noteworthy, and a PC able to dish out 10 DC would have some significant drawbacks in doing so (haymaker is a good example, but a smaller CV penalty and a half phase action isn't as disadvantageous). Maybe he can do 10 DC with a move through, exposing himself to damage as well as CV penalties. Maybe he can have 10 DC's, but he has an OCV below the average. Or perhaps he has high damage capacity, but low DCV and defenses, so he's a glass cannon. Maybe he has a lower SPD and movement so he hits hard, but considerably less often. But if he wants above the limit damage, he needs to be substandard in some other area to balance it out.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Damage Class, weapons and abilities

 

I think the idea of 'caps' does not mean all character should be combat-balanced. instead it should be folded into the bigger concept of 'schtick preservation'. If a player wants their character to be better at combat than the group average then they should suffer at the non-combat stuff. The GM just needs to be willing to spend game time on non-combat stuff to allow the non-combat experts to shine too.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Damage Class, weapons and abilities

 

I find the idea of a Damage Cap to be puzzling. I understand Active Point caps....those in and of themselves serve as a kind of Damage Cap. No more than 60 active? that means powers will be "capped" (unaugmented) at 12 DC's. To me Damage Caps only serve to limit the options of players during the game. Players generally only use manuevers like Move Through or Haymaker to get the extra damage they can dish out. If your character already hits the campaigns damage caps (and at 8 DC, that ain't difficult), they are never going to make use of said maneuvers, even at dramatically appropriate moments to do so, because they will get nothing from them.