What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

[casualplayer]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

True, but there is a *lot* in the system that is abusable. With 4th Ed. rules, how in the world do you do a spell or drug or whatever that enhances a Characteristic and mechanically would be in a MP/VPP?

 

Mr. Wizard: "Sorry, Mr. Fighter, but I'm casting Arrow of Acid now. You're going to have to do without that +10 Strength from the Minotaur's Might spell I cast last round."

Mr. Fighter: "What? I haven't even had an attack yet to use it even once!"

Mr. Wizard: "Don't blame me, I didn't make the System."

 

Buy the spell outside of a MP/VPP, because it is too abusable to allow it inside and to persist after the reserve is reallocated. Why can't I keep my Force Field up at full even when I shift my MP to Energy Blast? Because that's how a Multipower works.

[phookz]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

Buy the spell outside of a MP/VPP' date=' because it is too abusable to allow it inside and to persist after the reserve is reallocated. Why can't I keep my Force Field up at full even when I shift my MP to Energy Blast? Because that's how a Multipower [i']works[/i].

 

Not anymore. Aid has a fade rate - it makes more logical sense to apply the fade rate. It's possible to abuse it, but there are plenty of things that are possible to abuse, that's what the exclamation point icon is for.

[casualplayer]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

Not anymore. Aid has a fade rate - it makes more logical sense to apply the fade rate. It's possible to abuse it' date=' but there are plenty of things that are possible to abuse, that's what the exclamation point icon is for.[/quote']

 

A fade rate that outlasts the scene is essentially perpetual, and stopsigns and exclamation points in the rule book are more help to shopping munchkins than overworked GMs. Designers should really go back to the drawing board if they feel a power or ability justifies either blemish.

[dmjalund]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

maybe if we had the basic aid as lasting the casters phase and needs Advantages to make them uncontrolled continuous

[phookz]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

A fade rate that outlasts the scene is essentially perpetual' date=' and stopsigns and exclamation points in the rule book are more help to shopping munchkins than overworked GMs. Designers should really go back to the drawing board if they feel a power or ability justifies either blemish.[/quote']

 

While I agree with you about the notion of "essentially perpetual", it really needs to be put into context. Are you saying there should be no way to build an Aid that has an extended fade rate? What's wrong with letting a power last all day? It really depends on the power, IMO. There are plenty of examples for this in other games and fiction, so why not allow it to work in HERO?

 

One thing I've always loved about HERO was the fact that some things needed a GM's call, and it's right there in the rules. Empowering, and requiring, GMs to make decisions will lead to better GM's. You can't come up with a rule for every possible permutation, so you're going to need this anyway. The stop signs and excalamation points allow for rules to be defined that aren't worth the effort to trying to work out every permutation.

[SteveZilla]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

Buy the spell outside of a MP/VPP' date=' because it is too abusable to allow it inside and to persist after the reserve is reallocated. Why can't I keep my Force Field up at full even when I shift my MP to Energy Blast? Because that's how a Multipower [i']works[/i].

 

Um, because Force Field is a Constant Power, and Aid is an Instant power? Should we also expect the effects of an Energy Blast to go away when the attacker switches to a different slot?

[prestidigitator]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

Huh. My recollection was just that you Adjusted different slots independently, so if my Blast is enhanced and I switch to my un-enhanced Force Field, I can then switch back to my enhanced Blast again at some point (unless it's Faded by then). I'll have to re-read those fine points in 5E and 6E, but I'll probably stick with the way I've been doing it anyway....

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

Buy the spell outside of a MP/VPP' date=' because it is too abusable to allow it inside and to persist after the reserve is reallocated. Why can't I keep my Force Field up at full even when I shift my MP to Energy Blast? Because that's how a Multipower [i']works[/i].

 

Um' date=' because Force Field is a [i']Constant[/i] Power, and Aid is an Instant power? Should we also expect the effects of an Energy Blast to go away when the attacker switches to a different slot?

 

As Stevezilla says. Should your Drain recover entirely when you switch multipower slots? What about your Transfer - do the benefits to you, but not the drawbacks to your opponent, disappear? Does your Healing reeverse when you switch slots? Should your Entangle vanish when you switch over to Energy Blast? How about taking a big Summon with a potentially hostile Summoned entity and, whenever it goes wrong, switch the slot so the now-hostile Summoned being returns from whence he came - now I'm abusing your fix for abusive rules.

 

Because that's how a Multipower works.

 

Yup. And points aided fade at the same rate regardless of whether you switch slots becase that's how a Multipower works.

 

Can it be abused? Sure. So can building a character with a standard Awiss Army attacks multipower, then tossing a Force Field slot in there so you can be virtually invuilnerable if you don't attack. Very little in the game can't be abused if you put your mind to it.

[casualplayer]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

Huh. My recollection was just that you Adjusted different slots independently' date=' so if my Blast is enhanced and I switch to my un-enhanced Force Field, I can then switch back to my enhanced Blast again at some point (unless it's Faded by then). I'll have to re-read those fine points in 5E and 6E, but I'll probably stick with the way I've been doing it anyway....[/quote']

 

This misunderstanding keeps cropping up. The problem is actually when you have MP slots that are Aid, not that are Aided.

 

So someone comes to your table with Super Saiyan, a 5th/6th Ed character with a Multipower of Aid slots. For maximum grotesqueness, you buy up the maximum effect and down the fade rate. Every morning SS does a minute of stretching exercises (30 applications of Aid DEX,) a minute of windsprints (30 applications of Aid SPD,) a minute of powerlifting (30 applications of Aid STR,) a minute of cardio (30 applications of Aid CON,) etc., etc., etc. 15 uninterrupted minutes later and Super Saiyan has characteristics at the maximum level for your game across the board for the rest of the day. Don't forget the Limitation Self Only. This was not possible pre-5th because as soon as SS would have changed his Multipower to a new slot, the Aid effect would have stopped working on whatever characteristic or ability was Aided previously. IMO as it should be.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

This misunderstanding keeps cropping up. The problem is actually when you have MP slots that are Aid, not that are Aided.

 

So someone comes to your table with Super Saiyan, a 5th/6th Ed character with a Multipower of Aid slots. For maximum grotesqueness, you buy up the maximum effect and down the fade rate. Every morning SS does a minute of stretching exercises (30 applications of Aid DEX,) a minute of windsprints (30 applications of Aid SPD,) a minute of powerlifting (30 applications of Aid STR,) a minute of cardio (30 applications of Aid CON,) etc., etc., etc. 15 uninterrupted minutes later and Super Saiyan has characteristics at the maximum level for your game across the board for the rest of the day. Don't forget the Limitation Self Only. This was not possible pre-5th because as soon as SS would have changed his Multipower to a new slot, the Aid effect would have stopped working on whatever characteristic or ability was Aided previously. IMO as it should be.

 

What's being abused here? I suggest it is the Reduced Fade Rate advantage. I note that 6e raised the advantage for that first level of Reduced Fade Rate, since "lasting the combat" is the most significant aspect of reducing the fade rate, so this is more expensive in 6e. Increased Maximum is also gone, I believe, with the suggestion to buy extra dice that only increase the maximum.

 

I also see nothing wrong with telling the player that, if he wants extra stats that are always available, he should buy that. Will I always give him the time to use these powers repeatedly before combat? No, that's one of the drawbacks of Aid, so it will come up in play. Perhaps someone with a Dispel against Saiyan Powers removies all his bonuses until he reapplies them. Captured and shackled for a few days, SS lacks his bonus stats when an escape opportunity presents itself.

 

I'd be interested in seeing the proposed MP, at a 60 AP level, say, statted and costed out. How long is the fade rate? Anything less that hours probably doesn't cut it, a pretty big advantage. I suspect, statted out in 6e, this is nowhere near as powerful as you suggest. And, at the end of the day, abusive powers should be rejected. The cost of flexibility is the potential for abusive abilities, which the GM must then reject. Or give the same power to a villain, without the "self only" Maybe it's "others only" and the heroes keep running into villains charged up by the mysterious SuperCharger. It's amazing how quickly players cry out for abusive abilities to be vetoed away once they start being on the receiving end.

[SteveZilla]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

This misunderstanding keeps cropping up. The problem is actually when you have MP slots that are Aid, not that are Aided.

 

So someone comes to your table with Super Saiyan, a 5th/6th Ed character with a Multipower of Aid slots. For maximum grotesqueness, you buy up the maximum effect and down the fade rate. Every morning SS does a minute of stretching exercises (30 applications of Aid DEX,) a minute of windsprints (30 applications of Aid SPD,) a minute of powerlifting (30 applications of Aid STR,) a minute of cardio (30 applications of Aid CON,) etc., etc., etc. 15 uninterrupted minutes later and Super Saiyan has characteristics at the maximum level for your game across the board for the rest of the day. Don't forget the Limitation Self Only. This was not possible pre-5th because as soon as SS would have changed his Multipower to a new slot, the Aid effect would have stopped working on whatever characteristic or ability was Aided previously. IMO as it should be.

 

I actually saw a game being run at the local library where the (inexperienced, minmaxing, munchkiny) GM allowed a (ditto) player to have an Aid with an amazingly slow fade, and a super-high max effect... and to top it off, it was an Aid To All X. And of course, X was in every stat & power the character had -- including the Aid itself. Can we say "Positive Feedback"? No Framework required for that abuse. He also had a tiny Cosmic VPP (which became very large due to the Aid). He was practically an X Elemental imo.

 

Needless to say, I saw this high-speed bullet train crash into an oil refinery right next to a nuclear power plant on top of a sinkhole a light-year away and declined the invitation to join the "fun". While the game didn't implode in the first few sessions (like my #1 pick), it did devolve into a game of "Character X and his amazing helpers!" (my #2 pick).

 

The GM reading the character sheet and deducing what the player is planning to try to pull (if a munchkin) in-game and saying "No" (unless it is just "that kind" of game for all) is the Responsibility that goes along with the Great Power that Hero System grants.

[algesan]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

In response to Stevezilla:

 

Because the combination of Aid and VPP was one of the more abusive things that you could do in the game. Build an aid any Char (1 at a time, 5pts per hr fade) . A character with this could increase all of their stats by 24 active pts in a 60 pt active campaign in less than 2 minutes and keep them that way PERMANENTLY by investing 2 min or so each morning during breakfast. You could then switch your VPP and use as normal. When we switch to 6th that house rule will be one of the first explained to my players.

 

This looks like a case of player rules lawyering. Now, rules lawyering discussions are part of the fun (YMMMV) of a gaming session or discussion and sometimes we all learn something new, but...

 

I'm the GM, there is no higher court to appeal to and so when I rule that something is abusive, then it must go. I even have places in the rule books that say that and, amusingly enough, I don't think I've ever found a formal RPG that didn't have GM is boss and the rules are a guideline.

 

Rules abuses are by intent. Some players come up with wickedly clever ones (and usually get to do them once), but otherwise don't bother with it. Some players try over and over again to "push" their abilities, no matter the situation.

 

So as for the situation you mentioned: "No, you cannot do that." "But it says I can in the rules!" "GM Rulezorz is in the rules too as a trump card."

[SteveZilla]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

To modify the topic slightly, here is the problem I see with Aiding a flexible MP slot (and I suppose any "slot" in a VPP). Mr. Aggressive has has a simple (5ER) MP like below:

 

80 MP Reserve (90)

12 Slot 1: Energy Blast 12d6 (60 AP)

12 Slot 2: Flight 30" (60 AP)

12 Slot 3: Force Field 30/30 (60 AP)

 

Normally, Mr. Aggressive has to skimp on defense and/or mobility to be able to attack at full strength. He has a fellow player who is playing a "non-aggression" oriented character that buffs (increases) other's defenses -- Father Passive.

 

Father Passive does an Aid to Mr. Aggressive's Force Field for 30 points, allowing Mr. Aggressive to have a 45/45 Force Field, intending him to be able to simply weather the Big Bad's attacks while the other teammates work out a clever way to neutralize the Big Bad. But Mr. Aggressive has a "better" idea for those points. He only activates his Force Field with 30 of the Reserve Points instead of the full 60. But because of the Aided 30 points, he still has a 30/30 Force Field. But now, he is using 30 points less of his Reserve, which he shunts into his Energy Blast for the full 12d6! Much to Father Passive's shock.

 

It isn't his Aid power, and he didn't turn off the slot that was aided. Yet still he was able to effectively "redistribute" the points from the Aid to a different power because of Flexible Slots. Presumably much the same can be done if it was a VPP.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

To modify the topic slightly, here is the problem I see with Aiding a flexible MP slot (and I suppose any "slot" in a VPP). Mr. Aggressive has has a simple (5ER) MP like below:

 

80 MP Reserve (90)

12 Slot 1: Energy Blast 12d6 (60 AP)

12 Slot 2: Flight 30" (60 AP)

12 Slot 3: Force Field 30/30 (60 AP)

 

Normally, Mr. Aggressive has to skimp on defense and/or mobility to be able to attack at full strength. He has a fellow player who is playing a "non-aggression" oriented character that buffs (increases) other's defenses -- Father Passive.

 

Father Passive does an Aid to Mr. Aggressive's Force Field for 30 points, allowing Mr. Aggressive to have a 45/45 Force Field, intending him to be able to simply weather the Big Bad's attacks while the other teammates work out a clever way to neutralize the Big Bad. But Mr. Aggressive has a "better" idea for those points. He only activates his Force Field with 30 of the Reserve Points instead of the full 60. But because of the Aided 30 points, he still has a 30/30 Force Field. But now, he is using 30 points less of his Reserve, which he shunts into his Energy Blast for the full 12d6! Much to Father Passive's shock.

 

It isn't his Aid power, and he didn't turn off the slot that was aided. Yet still he was able to effectively "redistribute" the points from the Aid to a different power because of Flexible Slots. Presumably much the same can be done if it was a VPP.

 

I believe the Aid would have to enhance the Multipower reserve, as well as the force field, for this to be effective. If I recall correctly, in order to push a Multipower slot beyond the pool, you must aid both the slot and the pool to allow the AP to be available.

[prestidigitator]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

To modify the topic slightly, here is the problem I see with Aiding a flexible MP slot (and I suppose any "slot" in a VPP). Mr. Aggressive has has a simple (5ER) MP like below:

 

80 MP Reserve (90)

12 Slot 1: Energy Blast 12d6 (60 AP)

12 Slot 2: Flight 30" (60 AP)

12 Slot 3: Force Field 30/30 (60 AP)

 

Normally, Mr. Aggressive has to skimp on defense and/or mobility to be able to attack at full strength. He has a fellow player who is playing a "non-aggression" oriented character that buffs (increases) other's defenses -- Father Passive.

 

Father Passive does an Aid to Mr. Aggressive's Force Field for 30 points, allowing Mr. Aggressive to have a 45/45 Force Field, intending him to be able to simply weather the Big Bad's attacks while the other teammates work out a clever way to neutralize the Big Bad. But Mr. Aggressive has a "better" idea for those points. He only activates his Force Field with 30 of the Reserve Points instead of the full 60. But because of the Aided 30 points, he still has a 30/30 Force Field. But now, he is using 30 points less of his Reserve, which he shunts into his Energy Blast for the full 12d6! Much to Father Passive's shock.

 

It isn't his Aid power, and he didn't turn off the slot that was aided. Yet still he was able to effectively "redistribute" the points from the Aid to a different power because of Flexible Slots. Presumably much the same can be done if it was a VPP.

 

Well yeah. That's one of the benefits of Flexible slots. For that matter, there's nothing standard preventing a character from buying a bunch of 1 point powers he expects to be Aided during play (though that one's easier to catch during character creation). If you really think it's abusive, you could impose another restriction on how much a power can be Aided. For example, you could say that normally the Active Points in a power can be no more than doubled through Aid.

[phookz]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

I'd be interested in seeing the proposed MP' date=' at a 60 AP level, say, statted and costed out. How long is the fade rate? Anything less that hours probably doesn't cut it, a pretty big advantage. I suspect, statted out in 6e, this is nowhere near as powerful as you suggest. And, at the end of the day, abusive powers should be rejected. The cost of flexibility is the potential for abusive abilities, which the GM must then reject. Or give the same power to a villain, without the "self only" Maybe it's "others only" and the heroes keep running into villains charged up by the mysterious SuperCharger. It's amazing how quickly players cry out for abusive abilities to be vetoed away once they start being on the receiving end.[/quote']

 

Cost POWERS

60 Multipower, 60-point reserve - END=

6f 1) Strength Boost I: Aid 3d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Day; +2 1/4) (58 Active Points) - END=6

6f 2) Strength Boost II: Aid 3 1/2d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Hour; +1 3/4) (58 Active Points) - END=6

6f 3) Strength Boost III: Aid 4d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 20 Minutes; +1 1/2) (60 Active Points) - END=6

6f 4) Strength Boost IV: Aid 4d6+1, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 5 Minutes; +1 1/4) (58 Active Points) - END=6

6f 5) Strength Boost V: Aid 5d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1) (60 Active Points) - END=6

6f 6) Strength Boost VI: Strength Boost VI: Aid 10d6 (60 Active Points) - END=6

 

Here's a 60 AP MP with various Aids to Strength, 6E build. They start with 5 pts per day and drop down to the standard 5 per turn. At the all day rate, your going to average 10.5 points to STR for a real cost of 6 points. It's not like the character is saving a lot on this. Dropping down to the 5 per minute rate your only going to net an average of 17.5 points of STR - this is a much better deal than the all day rate, but the character is going to have to be reactivating that power very frequently.

[Grailknight]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

Except that under the rules as written Aid is not limited to one use per character per day. In addition each multipower slot counts as a dfferent power. So you use each slot twice to reach max max and then switch to the next and apply it twice and so on. Taking just your 1st 4 slots you get an avg of 90 STR which you can use on EVERY member of your group as you didn't limit yourself to self only. You may have END issues but the fights are gonna be real short when you add 18d to the bricks and MA's.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

Cost POWERS

60 Multipower, 60-point reserve - END=

6f 1) Strength Boost I: Aid 3d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Day; +2 1/4) (58 Active Points) - END=6

6f 2) Strength Boost II: Aid 3 1/2d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Hour; +1 3/4) (58 Active Points) - END=6

6f 3) Strength Boost III: Aid 4d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 20 Minutes; +1 1/2) (60 Active Points) - END=6

6f 4) Strength Boost IV: Aid 4d6+1, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 5 Minutes; +1 1/4) (58 Active Points) - END=6

6f 5) Strength Boost V: Aid 5d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1) (60 Active Points) - END=6

6f 6) Strength Boost VI: Strength Boost VI: Aid 10d6 (60 Active Points) - END=6

 

Here's a 60 AP MP with various Aids to Strength, 6E build. They start with 5 pts per day and drop down to the standard 5 per turn. At the all day rate, your going to average 10.5 points to STR for a real cost of 6 points. It's not like the character is saving a lot on this. Dropping down to the 5 per minute rate your only going to net an average of 17.5 points of STR - this is a much better deal than the all day rate, but the character is going to have to be reactivating that power very frequently.

 

Except that under the rules as written Aid is not limited to one use per character per day. In addition each multipower slot counts as a dfferent power. So you use each slot twice to reach max max and then switch to the next and apply it twice and so on. Taking just your 1st 4 slots you get an avg of 90 STR which you can use on EVERY member of your group as you didn't limit yourself to self only. You may have END issues but the fights are gonna be real short when you add 18d to the bricks and MA's.

 

While I agree with Grailknight's point, what GM is going to allow that Multipower? What SFX explain the various different fade rates arising from abilities so different they should not be combined for the "maximum aided" rule? If we're simply playing a game of "make any abuses you want mechanically - no concept or GM intervention applicable", then I suggest adding a 20d6 Aid Dispel to every villain's Multipower will have a significant impact on the effectiveness of this approach, as it merrily strips away all the enhanced points.

 

If the GM allows the Aid MP, why not a MP of six different NND constructs, each with a different defense? Seems equally valid.

[casualplayer]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

Except that under the rules as written Aid is not limited to one use per character per day. In addition each multipower slot counts as a dfferent power. So you use each slot twice to reach max max and then switch to the next and apply it twice and so on. Taking just your 1st 4 slots you get an avg of 90 STR which you can use on EVERY member of your group as you didn't limit yourself to self only. You may have END issues but the fights are gonna be real short when you add 18d to the bricks and MA's.

 

It's worse than that. That's potentially 30d6 Aid to STR, or 180. 180! For every member of the team for 96 points. Probably should buy an Endurance Reserve for the END Cost though.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

It's worse than that. That's potentially 30d6 Aid to STR' date=' or 180. 180! For every member of the team for 96 points. Probably should buy an Endurance Reserve for the END Cost though. [/quote']

 

That 180 requires the 10d6 Aid that fades every turn be set up with two shots on each teammate. Assuming BoosterMan has a 5 SPD, and 4 teammates, that's two turns of Aiding in real combat time, at the end of which there have been two fades. Your teammates have to stay in close proximity to be Aided, since Aid has no range. I would also rule that you can't have a 10 DCV against everyone but the guy trying to lay a hand on you to boost your STR...

[casualplayer]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

That 180 requires the 10d6 Aid that fades every turn be set up with two shots on each teammate. Assuming BoosterMan has a 5 SPD' date=' and 4 teammates, that's two turns of Aiding in real combat time, at the end of which there have been two fades.[/quote']

 

So if he can realistically only do it to himself or just one teammate that makes it balanced?

 

Now if it was me making Super Saiyan it would only be 20d6 STR but that STR would be 0 END Cost, I would have +6 SPD Only for using Aid MP and 75% Damage Reduction: Physical and Energy Only while using MP Concentration 0 DCV. Focus, focus, focus, BOOM! One turn of effort later and I have a 130 STR, less time if I applied the slow fade Aids earlier. Seems fair.

 

Sure the GM can veto the build but the rules have been adjusted to make this possible, something that wasn't in earlier editions. Bad design and one I desperately wish Mr. Long would share his reasoning on.

[SteveZilla]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

Except that under the rules as written Aid is not limited to one use per character per day. In addition each multipower slot counts as a different power. So you use each slot twice to reach max max and then switch to the next and apply it twice and so on. Taking just your 1st 4 slots you get an avg of 90 STR which you can use on EVERY member of your group as you didn't limit yourself to self only. You may have END issues but the fights are gonna be real short when you add 18d to the bricks and MA's.

 

Did that change in 6E? In 5ER (I am fairly sure) two characters each with an identical Aid cannot both add their points to a target. I would postulate that if instead of two characters, one character had both aids, the same would apply. Thus, the bigger Aid only comes into effect after it has managed to eclipse the amount added by the smaller Aid.

[The Main Man]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

This Aid discussion sounds overblown. See 6e1, page 136, column 2, "Maximum Effect."

 

In summary, if a character is the target of two or more like Adjustment powers, the greatest effect may not be exceeded by any lesser or equal effects.

 

So arguing over the aforementioned Multipower is frankly much ado about nothing because only the Aid build with the highest effect would overshadow the others, relegating them to only expanding the fade rate and only up to their maximum effects at that.

[SteveZilla]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

This Aid discussion sounds overblown. See 6e1, page 136, column 2, "Maximum Effect."

 

In summary, if a character is the target of two or more like Adjustment powers, the greatest effect may not be exceeded by any lesser or equal effects.

 

So arguing over the aforementioned Multipower is frankly much ado about nothing because only the Aid build with the highest effect would overshadow the others, relegating them to only expanding the fade rate and only up to their maximum effects at that.

 

 

I also seen to recall that Steve gave a ruling (or maybe it was in a book somewhere) that each *application* of an Aid fades, not the total amount. I.e., 3 pumps of Aid STR, and in PF12, 15 points fade away. Personally, I would never Nerf Aid that badly and thus wouldn't use that rule -- if it exists.

[The Main Man]

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

 

There's this tidbit too: 6e1, page 139, column 2, "Positively Adjusting Power Frameworks."

 

In summary, you must adjust the Power Framework pool in addition to the power in question. It normally takes two individual adjustments to do this, but Expanded Effect can short-cut it. It then says that a slot may not exceed pool points regardless of the adjusted effect.