Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

[Ragitsu]

As the title asks, what kind of rolls (and at what bonus/penalty) for illness via (bacteria, fungi, virii, pests etc) would you make the players roll for their characters while traveling in a modern day sewer?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

Personally I'd ask for a Constitution roll and decide what happens when/if it fails (and taking into consideration the margin of failure), modified by what kind of contact has been made with waste. Maybe something like: wading is -0, swimming -1, ingestion or healing wounds -2, open wounds -3, getting stabbed/cut with weapons doused in waste -4 to -5. I'd call for one roll per period exposure, but might impose a modifier based on the length of time as well. For example, -0 for 1 hour of exposure, -1 per level on the Time Chart longer than that, or +1 per level on the Time Chart shorter (if it's not acute and immediate exposure such as being stabbed).

 

As for the kinds of infection or illness, I'd make it depend on the circumstances and whim. For a barely failed roll (1 to 2), I'd do something like normal, common illness (pink eye, ear infection, skin irritation, etc.); something you could either treat yourself or basically just go to the doctor and get a prescription for. If the roll fails by more (like -3 to -4) I'd make it more serious; something that's going to need medical attention to prevent it from getting bad in a major way--eventually at least. For failure of -5 or more I'd say the sky is the limit (flesh eating bacteria? something that needs ongoing major medical treatment or surgery to keep it from becoming fatal...). With a big enough failure I'd go to the point of requiring some kind of super-science or magic for treatment. If wounds are involved, you could go anywhere from extra healing time, to not healing at all without medical treatment, to a slow extra "bleeding" loss of Body over time, to Imparing/Disabling effects imposed after the fact.

 

Overcoming the problem would require Paramedics at the low levels, and Science Skills at the higher levels. It seems fair to vary both the period of treatment on the Time Chart (maybe starting at 1-5 minutes) and the required Skill Roll based on the margin of failure of the character's original roll (i.e. basically treat it like a Skill vs. Skill roll, with modifiers allowed for equipment, extra time, quality of medical supplies, etc.).

 

Anyway, that's probably how I'd approach the situation, and basically the way I've handled such things in the past (though now I've had the benefit of some more time to think it out). Hope it gives you some ideas. (Hmm. Maybe I should codify some of this and whip up some charts....)

[dmjalund]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

don't forget positives for appropriate attire

[prestidigitator]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

True. Good point. Of course, good enough attire and I probably wouldn't require a roll at all (or might turn it into some kind of basic, easy roll just to make sure you're competent enough not to puncture your haz-mat suit or something).

[Talon]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

I have to admit that in nearly every campaign I've played in, no roll would be required unless a character had a specific Complication (or Unluck and the GM was feeling mean). The consequences are not particularly heroic or interesting to roleplay, so I'd prefer they were skipped.

 

OTOH, I might ask the players to make CON rolls (with no consequence unless someone rolls an 18 maybe) just to emphasize how icky it is. Players will happily have their characters march through all kinds of unpleasantness...but make a CON roll, that's nasty!

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

I have to admit that in nearly every campaign I've played in' date=' no roll would be required unless a character had a specific Complication (or Unluck and the GM was feeling mean). The consequences are not particularly heroic or interesting to roleplay, so I'd prefer they were skipped.[/quote']

 

I concur.

[Ragitsu]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

Just to be clear: this topic is not "should I?", it is "how do I?". Also, I thank prestidigitator and dmjalund for contributing so far.

 

I am considering using the optional Life Support list of Expanded Immunity from the Advanced Players Guide in regards to illness. Has anyone here used it, and, if so, are the point costs fair?

[Alibear]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

People don't get sick walking through sewers. You can take a tour of Munich's sewers and as far as I'm aware nobody has died yet.

 

I think the only problem might be total immersion or contact with an open wound. Then, I'd use a modifyied con roll with appropriate modifiers for things like cleaning the wound afterward and getting it patched up. Perhaps a con roll, with paramedics as a complimentary roll. A small infection, perhaps -1 to dex or a stun or two loss(easily cleaned up with antibiotics) might be the end result of a failed roll.

 

Sensible precations would be a heavy factor in any decision to infect a PC (if I was GMing)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

Adding to Alibear's comments, sewer workers don't wear hazmat suits either. I agree that, if we're aiming for realism, total immersion (ie likely consumption) or an open wound in contact over time would be needed to have any material likelihood of infection, with the result of even a failed roll being a minor penalty easily overcome with appropriate antibiotics.

 

A CON roll would be my approach to the resistance factor as well, so the likeliness of even a character exposed to the extent necessary to mandate a roll failing it would be pretty low, as few characters have a CON roll worse than 12. I'd be inclined to go with no penalty, assuming the circumstances under which a roll would be required at all would be extreme. If they would be less extreme, I'd apply bonuses to the rolls for less extreme circumstances.

 

Given the unlikeliness, I'd need a pretty strong plot-related or genre-related reason to make an issue of this at all.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

Just to be clear: this topic is not "should I?"' date=' it is "how do I?". Also, I thank [b']prestidigitator[/b] and dmjalund for contributing so far.

 

Thank you for clarifying. Your original post asked (emphasis added)

 

As the title asks' date=' [b']what kind of rolls [/b](and at what bonus/penalty) for illness via (bacteria, fungi, virii, pests etc) would you make the players roll for their characters while traveling in a modern day sewer?

 

The consensus to that question seems to be emerging to be "none". I would agree - the likelihood of illness arising from such travel is minimal, the consequences would typically be minor in a modern day setting and it's not very heroic for characters to succumb to such illnesses, so why bother?

 

I am considering using the optional Life Support list of Expanded Immunity from the Advanced Players Guide in regards to illness. Has anyone here used it' date=' and, if so, are the point costs fair?[/quote']

 

How fair the point costs are depends on how common it is to encounter illness that the Immunity protects against, and how severe the consequences are to those who lack this immunity. If, to take an extreme, the characters must make a CON roll every day or catch the flu, and the flu will drain them of 1-6 CP from all of their physical stats (recovery 5 CP per day once the flu is healed by making a CON roll at -2), this would be extremely valuable. If, at the other extreme, probably more common, there are never any illnesses (other than magic ones that blast right past your immunity, of course), it's worthless.

[dmjalund]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

I'd actually be more worried about encounters with brazen rats

[Alibear]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

In an RPG setting isn't it obligatory to have giant alligators down there?

[Talon]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

I would have a couple handsome yet scruffy normals down there looking for someone named "Angel"...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

People don't get sick walking through sewers. You can take a tour of Munich's sewers and as far as I'm aware nobody has died yet.

People get sick every day, even without entering a sewer. Sewers are inherently dirty environments, and will definitely increase the likelihood of catching something. Otherwise we'd just squat in the street, and sewers never would've been invented. There are very good reasons to isolate our waste, and not just because of the smell. Add to that often ideal conditions for growing all kinds of nasty bacteria, fungi, etc.... Now how much the environment increases your chances of contracting something nasty is going to depend a lot on the the actual sewer you're in. You're right that amazing and historic sewers that are maintained well enough for people to take regular tours without having to slosh through human waste probably aren't going to pose much of a hazard. Also, portions of a sewer designed purely for rainwater runoff drainage aren't likely to pose much of a threat (still a breeding ground, but at least not actively and constantly inoculated by the introduction of human waste). But there are also plenty of times and places where jumping down into some random sewer tunnel without taking any precautions is probably going to land you in some heavy s***. Fatal? Possibly, but not likely, especially with modern medicine. But the chances you'll NEED that medical treatment aren't nonexistent either.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

As for whether it's "heroic" to have to deal with infections and illness, that's quite dependent on taste. Some people like the "grittiness" of having to deal with realistic minutiae while undergoing more overwhelming, "heroic," challenges. Some people like heroes who are pretty much immune to anything mundane. To each his own.

[RexMundi]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

Just to be clear: this topic is not "should I?"' date=' it is "how do I?". Also, I thank [b']prestidigitator[/b] and dmjalund for contributing so far.

 

I am considering using the optional Life Support list of Expanded Immunity from the Advanced Players Guide in regards to illness. Has anyone here used it, and, if so, are the point costs fair?

 

Yes and the point costs are very fair. I've got a party of 6e folks right now that should be showing some interesting parasitic infection symptoms......hmmm....right about tonight. A lot of sewers though are actually rather clean, it's the Side junctions and smaller piping etc etc .....there's a couple of really good "Dirty JObs" episodes for Sewers Issues well worth watching and most likely, easily googled.

 

~Rex......slightly unnerved that Google is so all powerful, it's actually a verb.

 

~Rex

[Ragitsu]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

An unmaintained sewer in a zombie apocalypse...possibly with said zombies having run roughshod inside it .

 

The consensus to that question seems to be emerging to be "none". I would agree - the likelihood of illness arising from such travel is minimal' date=' the consequences would typically be minor in a modern day setting and it's not very heroic for characters to succumb to such illnesses, so why bother?[/quote']

 

Two people replying is not a "consensus" and "none" is not a kind of roll at all: it is none. This kind of extremely light bullying is often encountered on many RPG forums ("why do you need this anyhow? I don't"), but I thought I wouldn't encounter any here. Again, you guys can create a thread discussing whether or not these rolls would even come up, because this one isn't it.

[RexMundi]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

Hell I don't call that light bullying, it's just Bullying. Case in point though. Some Sewer areas are meant to have manned Access. Especially Storm Sewers where you have to have large Amounts of Open Area. THESE, are the ones that are toured all over Europe (Been to more then a few myself). Since they are open and just move, "gray" water....they aren't horribly bad.

 

Now, SEWER, as in the waste lines and such, or like we have here in milwaukee, Combined flow systems, are Downright NASTY, and you can come down with tons of Horrid things left and right.

 

Here's a good clip, for a combined Sewer trunk....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcnK53rLQQk

 

Fun Fun Fun, and definitly not an Unprotected Tourist Area.

 

~Rex.....

[Ragitsu]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

I think a lot of early Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles viewers (me included) were disheartened to find out most sewers aren't that roomy.

 

Of course, I would like to use exactly those kind in the interest of exploration .

[Alibear]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

Don't get all shirty because the majority feel that walking through a sewer is indeed a perfectly safe thing to do. People work there every day without NBC suits and several big cities let you in there for a walk around.

 

People with 8 con, or less like many tourists make it out with barely a murmur about the smell not trips to the local Emergancy Room.

 

It's an interesting experience, and potentially a dangerous enviroment under the wrong circumstances, but nothing more. Bloody stinky though.

[RexMundi]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

I always found the wildlife to be more annoying. Glad I don't work the lines anymore.

 

~Rex

[Ice9]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

I'm not saying that sewers are safe, but this:

For a barely failed roll (1 to 2), I'd do something like normal, common illness (pink eye, ear infection, skin irritation, etc.); something you could either treat yourself or basically just go to the doctor and get a prescription for. If the roll fails by more (like -3 to -4) I'd make it more serious; something that's going to need medical attention to prevent it from getting bad in a major way--eventually at least. For failure of -5 or more I'd say the sky is the limit (flesh eating bacteria? something that needs ongoing major medical treatment or surgery to keep it from becoming fatal...). With a big enough failure I'd go to the point of requiring some kind of super-science or magic for treatment.

Seems a bit excessive.

 

Considering that most people are around Con 8, and even someone fairly health is still only Con 10-12, that's a 11- roll for almost everyone, which includes sewer workers. So with those results:

26% chance to get a minor illness.

9% chance to require medical attention.

2% chance to get flesh eating bacteria, which might require super-science for treatment.

 

And that's every trip, so a sewer department that employs half a dozen people to check the sewer weekly will have someone in the hospital every week or two, and probably lose at least one person to a super-disease by the second month.

Now if those numbers were shifted by +2, which could be the result of wearing appropriate clothing (not talking a hazmat suit, just boots/gloves/overalls), then the results look a lot more reasonable.

If they were wearing a full hazmat suit, then I wouldn't even roll - unless it was breached.

[Ragitsu]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

A full hazmat suit? I agree: that negates most, if not all, of the toxic/infectious danger.

 

That said, these people don't have anything better than paper masks....

[prestidigitator]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

Now if those numbers were shifted by +2, which could be the result of wearing appropriate clothing (not talking a hazmat suit, just boots/gloves/overalls), then the results look a lot more reasonable.

If they were wearing a full hazmat suit, then I wouldn't even roll - unless it was breached.

Agreed. Actually my statement about a hazmat suit was where I was pointing out that ENOUGH protection and a roll shouldn't be required at all without some extreme circumstances (that might puncture the suit or whatever).

 

Other equipment might help depending on the activity. Boots are good for wading as long as you don't step in over the depth the boots will protect you; they're certainly not going to help you worth a damn if you get knocked down and have to go for a swim. Etc.

[RavenX99]

Re: Traveling in your typical modern day sewer: what rolls for illness?

 

People get sick every day' date=' even [i']without[/i] entering a sewer. Sewers are inherently dirty environments, and will definitely increase the likelihood of catching something.

 

Still, people die in car crashes every day, but we don't roll for a chance of accident when the heroes drive down to the mayor's office to give him the bad news.

 

I wouldn't worry about infection from exploring a sanitary sewer (nothing really "sanitary" about it exploring it) unless something happened to increase the risk... as others have said, wounding, ingestion, etc.

 

Now, one question might be, what are the chances of accidentally sustaining an injury (out of combat) while exploring said sewer?

 

Me... I'm likely to not worry about rolling dice and make dramatically appropriate decisions. If it seems right for the story, somebody gets cut and infected. Maybe we roll some dice to find out who, or to disguise the fact that I "just decided." (I've been away from the Hero community for too long... I'm not sure how y'all react to to that kind of thing.)