OAF becomes OIF

[Blue]

An energy sword has continuing charges of "force field". When the FF is turned on, the energy sword can't be knocked away, disarmed, etc. It's treated like an OAF at all times except when the FF is turned on, at which point it's treated like an OIF.

 

-3/4 (Halfway between OIF and OAF) -or- -1/2 (Because if you're in combat, you're pretty much going to be using the forcefield).

 

Thoughts? Opinons?

[dugfromthearth]

OIF

 

if you can't take it away in combat it is not OAF.

[CrosshairCollie]

Another option might be to link some extra Strength to the Force Field, with the limitation Only To Resist Disarming, if the immunity to disarming isn't total. Otherwise, I'd say OIF it.

[Blue]

Sounds fair to me.

I think the OIF is actually cheaper than the extra strength (and more approriate).

 

Thanks guys.

[Dust Raven]

Mmm.....

 

I think it's either OAF, with STR "Only To Prevent Focus From Being Disarmed" (-1 1/2), or just a flat out OIF with Restrainable (-1/4). I know you shouldn't take Restrainable along with Focus, but it can apply here, as the object can be treated like an OAF at certain times, against certain attacks.

 

If you want the "can't be disarmed" when the FF is on, I'd go with the second, otherwise I'd personally perfer the first.

[Farkling]

OIF, or actually, just the -1/2 restrainable by my sight.

 

You're trying to get the best of both worlds, the OAF limitation and the OIF limitation (by the book), so oyu get the lesser one.

 

Since deactivation of the force field means the focus is OAF, that can be the restraint limitation. I'd let oyu slide with that.

 

By the book, it should only be the 1/4 restrainable limitation, with no focus bonus...because it's just a special effect at this point.

 

If a Jedi could activate a forcefield that prevented him from being disarmed...he effectively cannot be disarmed until the force field went down or the Jedi was unconscious (same effect!). If the field is PERSISTENT once activated, then it would DEFINITELY be 1/4 in my game. A rare circumstance indeed would lead to the field being down.

[Blue]

I ultimately went with OIF.

 

At first my hangup was that since the FF has charges (that run out in 1 turn each) then there's a point at which the focus is vulnerable. To me that was worth at least -1/4.

 

But then I thought about the nature of foci. I generally rule that if the target is unresisting you can remove most OIFs within a few rounds depending on the Focus (Helmet would be a couple rounds, a full suit of armor would be five or six phases, etc.). This is just a more generous special effect, Not quite worthy of -1/4.

 

I can live with the OIF. I just need to find other places to cut points now

[Tech]

Originally posted by dugfromthearth

OIF

 

if you can't take it away in combat it is not OAF.

 

I almost agree with this 100% but not quite, so I'll say 80%. If someone created something like this and tried OAF, they'd best be prepared to lose it at times outside of combat and therefore, not be able to use it in combat at all. Oh well, that's why it's a limitation.

[Magmarock]

Look at it this way guys,

 

The classification of the LIM OAF or OIF applies only to when a power is in use.

 

For example: Captain Blastor has a battle suit (armor + all powers) that is OIF while he is wearing it (i.e. when he can actually use it's powers), which is not all of the time because CB has a Secret ID.

 

What this means is that while he is wearing the suit, it will take a full turn to remove the suit from him.

 

What this also means is that it is possible for someone to steal his car while the suit is packed up in the trunk, or to even try and take the suit's case from him before he is wearing it.

 

 

 

As for the sword with FF that is in question, I'd say that the sword should be bought only with OIF period. The FF will be in place everytime the sword is in use, so the LIM for more free points is not applicable. Find another LIM to make the sword cheaper, my opinion.

 

Mags

[Blue]

Re: Look at it this way guys,

 

Originally posted by Magmarock

The classification of the LIM OAF or OIF applies only to when a power is in use.

 

I don't quite agree with this logic. Most "weapons" are instant. A pair of gauntlets that fire lazer beams bought as OIF are not "always in use" and yet they are still OIF, are they not? They may be worn, but not necessarily "in use". Armor could follow the example you sited because it's a continual power (and therefore always in use when it's worn). But this logic breaks down for anything "Instant".

[Magmarock]

Perhaps, but it doesn't pertain to this sword with a FF that is on when it is held (which will be whenever it's used). The FF is continuous, right?

 

But just for the sake of discussion, what about when the sword is not being used? Is it sheathed? How easy is it to be taken from the PC at that point? I've a suspicion that none of this really matters- because my guess is that this player appears to want the benefits of an OIF focus, but he wants the higher point from an OAF focus. I say choose and be done with it.

 

I have made many PCs that have instant powers bought with either OAF or OIF. So have the many people I play Champions with... I've never seen anyone try to make a single focus both OIF and OAF. Seems very questionable to me.

 

This guy needs to choose one and be done with it. There are other ways, legal ways, to make a power cheaper.

 

 

Mags

[Blue]

Originally posted by Magmarock

Perhaps, but it doesn't pertain to this sword with a FF that is on when it is held (which will be whenever it's used). The FF is continuous, right?

Yup. I was just referring to the statement in general.

 

But just for the sake of discussion, what about when the sword is not being used? Is it sheathed? How easy is it to be taken from the PC at that point? I've a suspicion that none of this really matters- because my guess is that this player appears to want the benefits of an OIF focus, but he wants the higher point from an OAF focus. I say choose and be done with it.

A sword, would seem under the rules to be "in use" when it's being swung. But as for the ruling, it's already OIF for simplicity sake.

 

I have made many PCs that have instant powers bought with either OAF or OIF. So have the many people I play Champions with... I've never seen anyone try to make a single focus both OIF and OAF. Seems very questionable to me.

It's all about doing something new I encourage my players to come up with something interesting. Mainly because I like to see if there's a way to build it. In some cases we can do it, it just costs way too much. It's hard to find something in Hero that can't be built.

[Magmarock]

Ok.

 

I can live with that. We do the same in our campaign. But even so, building a power in a new and unique way doesn't mean cheating on the points.

 

I take it you are the GM then, I say stay strong and don't let them walk on you. Cheers!

 

Mags

[Blue]

Generally speaking, as long as the rule is applied equitably to everyone and doesn't impinge on some other power in a major way, I'm pretty much ok with it. Except of course powers that would make the game less fun to the other players; on those I ask for a rework.

 

I am currently the GM, yes. The only one of the group who runs Hero at the moment. They enjoy playing it, but I'm the only one who seems to enjoy running it. The other two three who GM are WoD and D&D 3e (-not 3.5-) monkeys; which works out okay. A little variety.

 

No worries... I've got my player smackin' stick within reach at all times. And since I'm the GM, it's got more active points than the campaign allows. It's good to be in charge.

[prestidigitator]

I would say straight OIF. It is fairly easy for the character to keep opponents from reaching the weapon. I think I would be very hesitant to allow both Focus and Restrainable on the same power. The Restrainable Limitation means that essentially the power can be actively kept from being used, while Focus means the power can just flat out be taken away for a time (worse and inclusive of the Restrainable Limitation). If I were the GM, I might consider allowing the Force Field itself to be bought with Restrainable as well as OIF if there were common "force field dampener" equipment or something (in this sense the Force Field only is a little more "accessible"), but none of the other powers bought through the weapon. I don't think I'd allow Restrainable on even the Force Field if it were bought through an OAF, because it is already pretty restrainable then.

 

The example I keep thinking of is Flight bought as wings. They are Restrainable because someone can Grab the wings and keep them from flapping as long as the Grab is maintained, but the wings can't easily be removed from the character and locked up in a vault so the character can't fly for a time.