Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

[L. Marcus]

... Specifically the lowered base values for the characteristics. Would it be more elegant for characters to start with 175 points and set STR, DEX, CON, INT, PRE, and EGO at eight, or reduce the starting points and keep the characteristics at ten, per as usual?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

Since the idea was that people in Valdorian Age (even Heroes) are simply less capable overall, I would still say it's a campaign standard to start at 8.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

It strikes me that some players would choose to use their character points for other purposes than to raise all their "8" Characteristics to "10s" at the start; especially if 8s would still be the NPC standard for a given VA-based campaign. For those players, the changes you describe would likely result in their just distributing their points differently, and/or buying down more Characteristics. Not really a more "elegant" approach IMHO.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

Thanks, you fellows. As an aside, what do you think of the formerly figured characteristics? Should those be tampered with in some way, or would that be too much of a hassle for the bang of the buck?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

IMO this is an example of the elimination of Figured Characteristics simplifying the game. Now if you want to lower or raise starting CHAR from the standard for a given campaign, there are no calculations to other stats involved. It's straight subtraction or addition.

 

Since 6E kept all standard starting Characteristics at the same totals as 5E, I would suggest just leaving the Valdorian Age suggested stats where they are if running the setting using 6E.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

I would also leave the Secondary at the standard start level.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

... Yeah, I see ... So, a straight-up 125+50 Heroic campaign with 8 for starters in the six above-mentioned chars plus BODY?

[Markdoc]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

That'd work, but you might want to consider starting even lower: I started my current game at 50+50 for a more swords and sorcery style (and it uses a magic system that borrowed heavily from Valdoria, just jazzed up a little). That worked pretty well: at 50+50, the PCs were more than a match for a city watchman, but would run from a pack of them. At 125+50, your fighter types will easily take down a mob of rampaging normals by themselves, and will make even tough city watch hesitate.

 

What sort of game were you thinking of running - Elric, Conan or Grey Mouser?

 

cheers, Mark

[L. Marcus]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

Fafhrd and the Mouser, more than anything else. I'm aiming at few players -- maybe just two or three -- so I figure 125+50 ought to suffice for heroicness versus average mortals, while still not in the take-on-an-army-singlehandedly range.

[Markdoc]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

Ok, well, next question is where you want to set your "baseline".

 

In the Valdorian age book, competent guardsmen are DEX/SPD/CV 12/2/6, so a 175 point fighter type should be able to dispose a half dozen fairly handily, or would be more than a match for about a dozen standard gang members, who are 8/2/5, without much in the way of problems. If you are using the Valdorian rules, a sorceror type should be able to have pretty reasonable stats and still summon 200 point sprits plus have a 60-80 active point multipower of spells.

 

Is that the level you are aiming at?

 

cheers, Mark

[L. Marcus]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

Hnnh ... That does sound rather excessive, actually ... 75+50 might be more appropriate ...

 

I've got a sample character congealing in the ol' cabesa -- I'll see if I get around to write him down ...

[Markdoc]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

Post 'em and we'll critique.

If it helps, my baseline for "realistic" is baseline plus 50 points (25 points base + 25 complications): people will often sell down some characteristics in order to get their most important stat.s higher, so you don't get heroes who are better than ordinary people in every way. This level has proven appropriate for "viking saga" style games and "thieves' world" type games. At this level, mages can't get one-shot-kill spells and fighters can't afford much - if anything - in the way of martial arts. Any serious fight is potentially lethal at this level, and magic tends to focus on out of combat stuff. 15 active points only buys you a crummy 1d6 RKA, but it can buy you flight, simple illusions, enhanced senses, mind link, etc and useful protective magic - missile deflection, better than plate armour level rPD, etc. The emphasis at this level is on cunning plans and hitting things with sharp bits of metal. Players who like playing fantasy energy-blasters will hate it.

 

For "movie-level competent" I start players at 100 points (50 points base + 50 complications). At this level, PCs tend to be better than ordinary people in virtually every way - slightly tougher, slightly stronger, slightly faster - and far better in their primary role. Expect to see characters with 18 or 20 in STR, DEX, or PRE for starting characteristics. Mages won't dominate combat, but they should be able to hold their own and of course will be very useful out of combat.

 

For me, "heroic" starts at 150 points (100 points base + 50 complications, or 75/75). Fighting characters at this level will typically have martial arts and/or fighting tricks that let them carve through largish numbers of minions, and mages will likely have spells which dramatically affect the game (major healing, invisibility, mass flight, mass underwater breathing, short term invulnerability, etc) or have potent combat application (ballista level missiles,, area effect attacks, flash, entangle and telekinesis, etc) They won't be dragon killers, but your adventures will likely involve highish fantasy.

 

Dropping all stat.s to 8 as a starting base will affect this, but I suspect not as much as you might think - players will likely leave some of them at 8 and focus on their strong sides, which means those won't be much lower than if you started at 10. That's not an argument for starting at 10, of course: I kind of like the idea of starting PCs who are not above average in every way.

 

One last point: if you are going the valdorian route, mages get multipowers (which I think is fine) - but to balance the board a bit, I let non-mages buy "skills as powers" so that they can have a "fighting tricks multipower" or "Thiefly stealth multipower" and that also ups the power level somewhat, so fewer points compensates.

 

cheers, Mark

[L. Marcus]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

My character finally took shape:

 

Bourr

 

Description: Tall and skinny, with a narrow face, deep-set blue eyes, wild blonde hair and a full beard. Quiet and reserved. Somewhere around twenty-five years old.

 

Background: A Crumbles-man, while still almost beardless caught on his first raid in Amyklai and sold as slave. Ended up as a farmhand in Graekoria. Escaped during a bandit attack and travelled downriver. Has worked as a bodyguard-for-hire and as a river marine for the past several years.

 

Quote: "That's all well and good, city man, it's your neck."

 

Char	Val	Cost	Roll	Notes

STR	16	8	12-	200 kg; 3d6 [3]
DEX	10	4	11-
CON	13	5	12-
INT	10	2	11-	PER 12-
EGO	8	0	11-
PRE	13	5	12-	2½d6

OCV	6	15
DCV	5	10
OMCV	3	0
DMCV	3	0
SPEED	3	10		4, 8, 12

PD	6	4
ED	6	4
REC	8	4
END	40	4
BODY	13	3
STUN	30	5

Total Char Cost: 83


Cost	Abilities

1	Strong Legs: Running +1 m (13 m total)
3	Sharp Senses: +1 to all PER Rolls
0	CK: Elweir and environs 8-
1	AK: The Serpentine 8-
3	Bribery 12-
3	Fast Draw: Axes 11-
1	Gambling: Dice Games 8-
0	Language: Crumble-speech (idiomatic, native)
3	Language: Valdorian (completely fluent w/ accent)
1	Streetwise 8-
3	WF: Common Melee; Thrown Knifes, Axes, Darts
5	Two-Weapon Fighting; HTH Only (-1)
5	Rapid Attack; HTH Only (-1)
9	CSL: 3 w/ all Axes
4	CSL: +2 OCV w/ Thrown Axes

Total Abilities Cost: 42

Total Character Cost: 125


75+	Complications

10	Social Complication: Escaped slave (infrequent, major)
5	Distinctive Feature: Slave brand and whip marks on back (easily concealed, noticed & recognizable)
10	Psychological Complication: Distaste for slaves (common, moderate)
10	Psychological Complication: Hatred for slavers (common, moderate)
15	Psychological Complication: Loves to roll them bones (common, strong)

Total Character Points: 125

[Markdoc]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

Looks good! He's fast and strong and pretty damn nasty with an axe.

 

cheers, Mark

[L. Marcus]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

I think he'd be the Designated Mook Chopper. ^^

 

I imagine him as equipped with a brace of hatchets, a battle axe and a small shield.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

I doubt I'd allow "Distaste for slaves (common, moderate)" and "Hatred for slavers (common, moderate)".

 

Are these really separate complications, or a single complication related to an attitude towards slavery in general?

 

Other than that minor nitpick, seems like a decent character on the points budget.

[Checkmate]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

That's an 11 OCV with a thrown Ax. That's quite a few successful head shots.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

Speaking of the Valdorian Age, I'm looking to get a copy of the book and I don't know whether Hero's store still has any (and it's not a candidate for PDF release). Do I have any legitimate options that are likely to actually have it in stock?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

Speaking of the Valdorian Age' date=' I'm looking to get a copy of the book and I don't know whether Hero's store still has any (and it's not a candidate for PDF release). Do I have any legitimate options that are likely to actually have it in stock?[/quote']

 

The Hero Store still has copies, and they're now only 13.50$

[Markdoc]

Re: Valdorian Age in 6th Edition?

 

I'd get it. I think it's the best of the Hero FH books so far.

 

cheers, Mark