Is it possible to build....

[Christopher]

Like said on different occasions, I'd like to learn a little bit more of the game and I think a good way is to ask if certain ideas I have can be realized with the rules.

For most part, the answer may be "sure, nothing easier than that", but that only speaks for the quality of the system. For some of them I can guess from what I have seen/heard/read about the system, but I still ask since I could be completely wrong.

 

Lets start:

Is it possible to build....

1) Overload strike/all-out one shot?:

An attack/power that places all of the energy into one single shot. However, the power or the pc/npc/vehicle is "burned out" after that (either for the fight, the session/rest of the adventure or maybe even permanently).

Examples:

Bleach: Ishida, Ichigo (will lose all powers afterwards/over short to medium time; may be changed later when only used as "plot-device")

B5 Call to Arms/Crusader: the main gun of the Excalibur/Victory (1 Minute complete Power loss)

JLU: the orbital gun of the watchtower (1 hour power loss; can be shortened by technicans)

A bomb is the extreme of this: Maximum Energy, lost after use.

 

2) Destruction divided:

A three power set/weapon set. Each with a certain "color". Each of them gives the user considerable fighting force (offense, defense, durability, healing), but only against a certain target/enemy group. They can't be combined. Colors and target groups are:

white: everthing technological; in fantasy/low tech: undead

black: everything living

red: everything magic / everyone using magic/paranormal/extradimensional power (perhaps the hardest of the three)

 

3) Variable Power alignment:

A "hero form"/"transformation" whose effects are highly variable. At some point it's nessesary to survive near a sun (vacuum, radiation, heat); at another one you need a high damage, resistance piercing, killing damage attack power; then you suddenly need superman-style super-strenght; then you need to stun or drain the enemys powers temporarily. The power may do all this, but not all of it at the same time.

 

4) Corrupting Power:

A "hero form"/"transformation" that has a certain "power rush".

When not using the power, the PC is reluctant/fears to change. When he is using it, the fear gets replaced by it's cause: A different disadvantage, like recklesness (not caring for bystanders or ignoring ones "code vs. killing"). So the hero "might do something he regretts" when using his powers.

Both the non-form and hero from disadvantage must of course have relevant influence (preferebly something with a throw/ingame effect). Nothing that is more roleplaying.

 

4a) More Power corrupst stronger:

The hero can "on the fly" increase his strenght, but at the cost of also increasing the disadvantage or adding another one (like the risk to go beserk). This could go up to the "point of no return", but intersting part would be the pc limiting his power because of fear going "to far".

 

5) More effort, brings stronger results or "just looking cool against weak enemys"

Lets say the Hero has a a signature energy attack. He can use it in three ways:

- Just wishing it to effect. Not even moving a finger (still spending action), just the enemy receiving the attack "out of the blue". May still have full defense options.

- A little bit more direct. Classical energy projection: Target with your hands/emitter, energy goes from hand/emitter to target.

- Point blank. Using the power at "touch range"

The more effort/less coolness used, the more the more power the attack has/the harder it is to avoid it. And of course this with minimal expense of power points.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

1) Is fairly straightforward (It's basically Human Torch's Nova-Blast)

Build the character's normal attack as normal (usually within a power framework)

build the overload attack as +D6 damage that adds to the base attack plus any additional advantages the base attack lacks

then give it the Side Effect Limitation (shuts down ALL powers for X amount of time after each use).

 

3) See this starting version of Superman who already has a large portion of his abilities within a VPP. The basic concept can be adapted to many different character types.

[Christopher]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

1) [...]then give it the Side Effect Limitation (shuts down ALL powers for X amount of time after each use).

Is there any guideline on how much time/powers disabled is acceptable? If not, that's not the thing I was looking for

 

Personally I was thinking more about: Add a Body-Damage/Stun Damage/Power Drain [on self],[for each use] that doesn't cost aditional points, but instead lowers the price (at 50% of the self damage power or aproparte to how much you "gain" from the "self-damage-limitation") as it is part of the price.

 

3) See this starting version of Superman who already has a large portion of his abilities within a VPP. The basic concept can be adapted to many different character types.

I would have bet the first answer would be Green Latern, but there are indeed multiple ways to make one hero. What is the downside of a vpp (when you want it to be cost-effective)? I already read of "changing time", "requires skill throw" and "can only be changed in certain location(batcave)". What about limiting the archievable effects? (only Stun, Drain, Dispel, normal and Killing Damage, Heal, Life Support...)

 

Both answers imply that the also work for 4a and 5, but I still don't know if powers even can add/change disadvantages as part of their effect (Number 4).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

1. Sure. Extra damage for the power with a massive Increased Endurance Cost limitation so that it is guaranteed to eat up most or all of the character's Endurance when he uses it, or perhaps a general Limitation that he can't use any powers for however long afterwards.

 

2. Just apply a Limited Power (only vs X) to the powers as appropriate; how big the limitation is depends on the frequency of the target group.

 

3. Variable Power Pool.

 

4. Sounds like a Multiform with conflicting Psych Lims; give the unpowered form something like Pacifist, and he'll need to make an EGO roll to change into the form with Loves To Fight except in dire circumstances.

 

4a. An Aid to all powers with a Side Effect of increasing an extant Disadvantage or adding a new one.

 

5. Hmm. Sounds like a Multipower with one slot Indirect, one slot standard, and the third slot No Range.

[Greywind]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

"Acceptable" is defined by the campaign, the GM and the character's player.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

A few ways to do #1:

 

All powers draw from an End Reserve, and the "full power" thingy, bought as extra dice on something, has a large END multiplier.

 

Everything is with Charges, but the "full power" thing applies Increased Recovery Time on the charges. EG, Blast 10d6, 16 charges (-0) and Blast +2d6, Increased Recovery Time (-x depending on how long).

 

Boostable Charges are pretty similar in concept.

 

Side Effects could do something like this, but I would probably not be overly concerned with building it as a drain - "locks out all my other powers for a while" is serious enough to be a -2 side effect, IMO.

[Christopher]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

Thanks, the answers helped a lot in understanding the posibiliteis of the game and I am about to buy the Basic Rulebook pdf.

 

Side Effects could do something like this' date=' but I would probably not be overly concerned with building it as a drain - "locks out all my other powers for a while" is serious enough to be a -2 side effect, IMO.[/quote']

It's the whole "for a while" part, that I don't like. I prefer something with clear values, that's why I cooked up "add drain/damage to yourself". The drain effect has a clear value (in points), so it is possible to say: Add a damaging effect of half/equal/double value, to get the -1 or -2 bonus.

 

I had another Idea:

6) Thorny Defense.

It means to have a defense, that can actually damage an attacker (if he uses close combat, grab,... or very long limps on ranged attack). This could mean having a hero named "rose" with literal thorns or a forcefield that blocks by "just focusing enough counter force at the impact piont".

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

6. RKA Damage Shield.

 

(BTW, we're using 'for a while' because we don't know how long you'd want it to be for. On the sheet, it would say 'for a turn' or 'for a minute' or 'for the rest of the day' or whatever was deemed appropriate by player and GM.)

[Christopher]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

On the sheet' date=' it would say 'for a turn' or 'for a minute' or 'for the rest of the day' or whatever was deemed appropriate by player and GM.)[/quote']

Never thought different. It is just so much a matter of interpretation what is 'appropriate'.

 

I have the book now (only 6.8 mb?, that's effective for 138 Pages including cover) and I am certain it is worth the 15$.

[Christopher]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

Now I have the book and a few more ideas with no idea how to :

 

7) A conceiled bag of holding (is part of/hidden in the pc's body). It may not be save for shrunken pc/npc's. Only accesible for the pc and it is restrainable. If to difficult, it may simply be the source of the pc's equipment-vpp (a utillity belt with very high capacity).

 

8) Heat blod:

(n)pc has a high tendency to bleed and keeps bleeding until first aid is administered (then the bleeding stops completely). Hapens every time the char resceives body-damage, maybe only body damage from killing attacks (has a force field and weak natural hardened defenses).

 

9) 4 Weapons, 3 forms:

Superhero (n)pc has four arms (extra limbs) and four pistol sized energy-weapons (unlimited amo/no endurance) and he usually uses all four togehter (dual wield is for beginners^^).

He can combine two of them (plug and play) to get a longarm sized weapon (twice the power; up to two of them) and should be able to use them togehter (or with two of the pistols). All four togehter, gets a heavy weapon (combined power of all four). Most likely OAF/OIF, not useable by others.

 

Of course I have one ot two ideas how to do each of them, but I prefer to ask those who have more experience (and the full rulebooks).

 

To "1) Overload strike/all-out one shot?":

I noticed that the sample Defender (BR 122) has the following attack:

3) Overload Blast: RKA 3d6; OIF (-½), Increased Endurance Cost (x4 END; -1½), Required Roll 14-, Burnout (-¼)

I could not find Burnout in the book (Pdf; not even in the listing of things that are in the full rulebook). Anyone know what that does and/or where it is listed?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

Burnout should be listed under "requires a roll", as it modifies that limitation. If the roll is failed, the power becomes unavailable for an extended period of time, rather than being possible to activate in the character's next phase.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

Now I have the book and a few more ideas with no idea how to :

 

7) A conceiled bag of holding (is part of/hidden in the pc's body). It may not be save for shrunken pc/npc's. Only accesible for the pc and it is restrainable. If to difficult, it may simply be the source of the pc's equipment-vpp (a utillity belt with very high capacity).

 

In a Supers game, it would be the source for whatever equipment it carries, likely reducing the Focus limitation on such equipment. In a heroic campaign, this might best be modeled as levels with Concealment, limited to appropriate circumstances, as it could be used to conceal free gear.

 

8) Heat blod:

(n)pc has a high tendency to bleed and keeps bleeding until first aid is administered (then the bleeding stops completely). Hapens every time the char resceives body-damage, maybe only body damage from killing attacks (has a force field and weak natural hardened defenses).

 

I'd design this around a Susceptibility to taking BOD damage. Frequency depends on how often he will take BOD damage initially, and damage would be designed around an attack with Damage over Time (which is halted by receiving first aid).

 

9) 4 Weapons, 3 forms:

Superhero (n)pc has four arms (extra limbs) and four pistol sized energy-weapons (unlimited amo/no endurance) and he usually uses all four togehter (dual wield is for beginners^^).

He can combine two of them (plug and play) to get a longarm sized weapon (twice the power; up to two of them) and should be able to use them togehter (or with two of the pistols). All four togehter, gets a heavy weapon (combined power of all four). Most likely OAF/OIF, not useable by others.

 

Extra Limbs is pretty easy. For the weapons, I'd consider a Multipower. One slot is a single large attack (the heavy weapon), the second is a 2 shot Autofire blast with less DC's, combined with PSL's to offset all autofire penalties and the third a 4 shot Autofire blast with even less DC's and enough PSL's to offset autofire penalties from four shots.

 

Alternatively, I might consider the second and third abilities to be Selective Area Effect attacks limited to only be able to hit 2 or 4 targets (depending on configuration) within that area. A Conic Area would nicely simulate the character's ability to target any four targets (at most) within an arc of fire.

 

As a third, more simplistic, option, the character could simply have one big attack. Breaking it down to smaller components for multiple targets is simply using the Spreading rules to sacrifice DC's to hit multiple targets. He could buy some extra DC's only for spreading attacks, limited to require some of the non-limited dice also be used for this purpose if you want.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

#1 could also be built using boostable charges.

 

#3 could be a VPP, or a Multipower, depending on exactly how flexible it is. A VPP would need a limitation set on it to only allow "one power at a time" if that is honestly how you wanted it, while a MP would just need "Fixed" or "Ultra" slots to give the "one power at a time" limit.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

Never thought different. It is just so much a matter of interpretation what is 'appropriate'.

 

I have the book now (only 6.8 mb?, that's effective for 138 Pages including cover) and I am certain it is worth the 15$.

 

 

You purchased the Basic Rules right?

Several of your questions are answered by the copious extra examples and explanations included in the full 6e1 and 6e2 books.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

Never thought different. It is just so much a matter of interpretation what is 'appropriate'.

 

For better or ill, there's a lot of that in HERO. How common or uncommon an occurance is varies significantly from GM to GM, or even just campaign to campaign.

[Christopher]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

You purchased the Basic Rules right?

Several of your questions are answered by the copious extra examples and explanations included in the full 6e1 and 6e2 books.

From what I have heard, the 6th Edition Bundle: Character Creation/Combat and Adventuring (and perhaps the hd3 toll) is the right "next step".

Or is one of the two more important for gm's and can be skipped by a player? (when I still want access to all the powers, advantages and equipment)

 

For better or ill' date=' there's a lot of that in HERO. How common or uncommon an occurance is varies significantly from GM to GM, or even just campaign to campaign.[/quote']

For complications, common or uncommon are of course highly dependant on the gm and the campaign (you tend to find more green argonite on argon than on earth).

An even the right time period can vary greatly (depending how fast in terms of ingame-time the campaign is).

[Christopher]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

To 1)

I found the perfect answer I was looking for, in the base rules:

Side effects: -1/4 (15 Active pionts), -1/2 (30 Pionts), -1 (60 Pionts); double if power never fails (no roll) or if it hapens even if the roll is successfull.

 

To 2)

I found a second way. NND (being not alive/being alive/being not magical). This would also increase the damage relevant (since it skips all normal defenses), but it might be not "exclusive" enough. But I consider (after hearing from them) to add a "no Knockkack" and maybe "no Destruction" Limitation (inherently, as counter for the NND).

So all I need now, seems to be rules for vpp.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

NNDs normally do neither Body damage nor Knockback, so neither of those would be a valid limitation on an NND.

[Christopher]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

NNDs normally do neither Body damage nor Knockback' date=' so neither of those would be a valid limitation on an NND.[/quote']

Wierd. Checked it back and the Basic Rulebook only says this under Entangle and one hint down by the chemicals (I hadn't read that part). However I found a old 5th Edition rule thats says it can do Body (+1 Advantage):

Magic Bolt: RKA 1d6, NND (defense is Power Defense; +1), Does BODY (+1) (45 Active Points);

OAF (wizard’s staff; -1), Gestures (-¼), Incantations (-¼), Requires A MagicRoll (-½). Total cost: 15 points.

Can be foung in this official "Genre by Genre" Guide for 5th, page 16, Sidebar

 

Was that a miss-print or was this removed from the 6th edition, is it just so unusual to actually use this rule?

[Ice9]

Re: Is it possible to build....

 

No, it's still in there. It just doesn't do BODY by default, unless you have that specific advantage. And you can make it do Knockback with the relevant advantage as well.