Powering Up With Multiform

[Steve]

In the HSMA book, there is an ability called "Ultimate Warrior's Aura" that uses Aid to power up several characteristics at once.

 

With a +4 Advantage to Aid those characteristics all at once, the Active Cost gets pretty high very quickly.

 

Using Multiform instead of Aid costs around the same and while it requires an extra sheet for the "powered up" version, you can set the characteristics exactly where you want them. My thinking is that when you cross over a +2 to +3 Advantage on Aid for multiple charactristics, then Multiform becomes a cleaner way to do things. With the new Limitation of Time Limit added to the Multiform construct, it approximates how an Aid would work.

 

Even if you don't use an anime-style glowing power-up, Multiform also seems a valid construct for creating berserkers and a sort of "battle focus" on a character, with the character being built on the same points but stripping off non-combat abilities and replacing them with increased combat abilities. Time Limit is a good Limitation to use, setting it at anywhere from 1-20 minutes.

 

Has anyone else used such a power build?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

I believe the advantage of Aid is that it can be a gradual build up instead of cranking it straight up to 12 instantly...

 

Of course, you could have multiple multiforms to simulate this as well...

[Naanomi]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

I use this construct for berserker characters sometimes... especially useful as it can chance your class of mind for the 'totally taken over by my demonic possession (Mind changes from Human to Alien: Demon)'; or 'Organic Input Offline, Switching to Autonomous Defense Mode (Mind from Human to Computer)

 

Or, in some high fantasy settings... I'm completely berserk BLAHALKAKJLAKJALH (Mind from Human to No Class of Mind, because I'm written as an unstoppable 'Takes No Stun' automaton!)

[Christopher]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

Multiform is better when Complications, Mind Class and such things change.

 

Couldn't you built something similar with OIAID?

Some of the characterstcis are "only as SSJ"

Some of the Skills are "only as normal Sayajin"

[Christopher]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

I think you may have missed on thing in your math:

4d6 AID on eight charactersticts can give you up to 24 Points on each. Summed up it gives you the equivalent of 192(!) Character Points on those Characterstics.

And without the reduced return rate, it only costs you 120 Active Points.

Edit: And you can at least half that, since you only aid yourself. So only 60 Real Cost for 192 Character Points worth of bonus.

[Steve]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

The comparison in the math gets less straightforward when you take into account that many of the characteristics are defensive, so they only get Aided half as much.

 

I could buy higher characteristics by using Time Limit as Limitations on the additions as well.

[Lucius]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

I think MarkDoc has mentioned using Multiform for berserkers, turning them into Automatons.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Changing from palindromedary to backandforthtrian is just Shapechange not Multiform

[Christopher]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

The comparison in the math gets less straightforward when you take into account that many of the characteristics are defensive, so they only get Aided half as much.

 

I could buy higher characteristics by using Time Limit as Limitations on the additions as well.

Really? Then please try to do that, I doubt it works better than AID. The specialty of it is, that each of the "Multiple Characteristics" doubles the effective Character Points, but only increases the cost by one instance. But let's make the math, using only defenses and the target to add 60 effective Character Points (120 AID effect) to a given number of them:

1 - 120 Active Points, 60 Real Cost

2 - 240 Active Points, 120 real Cost

4 - 360 Active Points, 180 Real Cost

8 - 480 Active Points, 240 Real Cost

 

And this is before I add things like Extra Time, Timelimit and similar things. And the effectiveeness doubles once it targets non-defense charateristics.

 

Edit: don't forget that Time Limit requires some other limitation (since what is time limit worth on a power that takes 0-Phase to activate and costs no END), each of them has to be applied to AID too.

[Ice9]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

Edit: don't forget that Time Limit requires some other limitation (since what is time limit worth on a power that takes 0-Phase to activate and costs no END), each of them has to be applied to AID too.

That's a point in favor of Time Limit + Characteristics though. Aid already (with no limitations) takes a half-phase and END to activate. That's an extra -3/4 you get to put on the characteristics to get the same result. And actually, since you have to apply Aid twice to get the maximum result, you could bump the non-Aid version to a full-phase and still have equal effectiveness.

 

And if you don't have Delayed Return Rate on Aid, then a Time Limit of 1 minute is actually a lot better than what Aid effectively gets you, since it will be significantly depleted after a couple turns.

 

 

Now all that is comparing Aid to Characteristic + Time Limit. Multiform is unquestionably cheaper, once you reach a certain threshold.

8 - 480 Active Points, 240 Real Cost

Let's try that with Multiform. For 240 active points, you can have a 1200 point Multiform. Unless your original character was >720 points, the Multiform is a better deal here, even with no limitations at all. Factor in Time Limit, and the difference soars. Of course, Multiform doesn't work so well when you just want to make minor changes, and it's not always the appropriate tool to use. But point-efficient - unquestionably.

[Ice9]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

Since we talk about 120 Active Points of AID, the fade rate (without Delayed Return) equals a 5 Minute Time Limit.

It may be that long before the Aid is gone completely, but even by 1 Minute it will be significantly weakened. Let's compare +60 STUN:

Time    Aid    1m TL    5m TL
1t        55    60       60
4t        40    60       60
1m        35    0        60
2m        10    0        60
24t        0    0        60

So we can see that it's not even close to 5m. Comparing it to a 1m TL, the 1m TL is better in the 1t - 4t range, and the Aid is better in the 1m - 2m range. Longer than that, and neither does you much good.

Now personally, I've seen more fights/action scenes that last 1t - 4t than 1m - 2m. Sure, extended chases/escapes can go longer, but most of those go well past 2m.

[Christopher]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

I try to do the real math, but am a littlebit at loss with time Limit:

How much is 5 Mintues and 1 Minute worth, respectively?

[Ice9]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

Of course, since Aid is exponential, it will eventually beat any linear method, even Multiform. The question is - can you find 32 or 64 things to Aid that actually synergize with each-other?

 

HTH would seem like the best route to really maximize this, since so many different things add to it:

STR + Growth + Density Increase + HA + Movement (for Move-by) - that's five direct sources, plus a theoretically unlimited number of Damage Shields.

 

Of course, go too far in this way and you risk GM-smiting.

[Christopher]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

Of course' date=' since Aid is exponential, it will [i']eventually[/i] beat any linear method, even Multiform. The question is - can you find 32 or 64 things to Aid that actually synergize with each-other?

More than 8 is impossible. But even that only cost 4 Times the Active Points of one Characterstic.

[Christopher]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

I see the problem with my list: I doesn't tells us, how much real cost each of the improved Charactersitics costs effectively:

1 - 120 Active Points, 60 Real Cost (60 Real per C)

2 - 240 Active Points, 120 real Cost (60 Real per C)

4 - 360 Active Points, 180 Real Cost (45 Real per C)

8 - 480 Active Points, 240 Real Cost (30 Real per C)

The fade Rate with 5/Turn will mean the fading takes 24 Turns, 288 Seconds or roughly 4.8 Minutes

 

Now let#s try this with non defenses. here only 60 AID effect has to be archieved:

1 - 60 Active Points, 30 Real Cost (30 per C)

2 - 120 Active Points, 60 Real Cost (30 per C)

4 - 180 Active Points, 90 Real Cost (22.5 per C)

8 - 240 Active Points, 120 Real Cost (15 per C)

Since only half the efect is need, the fading also takes only half the time: 12 Turns, 144 Seconds or 2.4 Minutes

[ghost-angel]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

Here's another thread based on the ideas of using Multiform as different styles of martial art, same character throughout:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/84979-Multiform-for-Alternate-Martial-Arts-Stances-Forms-Styles?p=2161317#post2161317

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Powering Up With Multiform

 

Has anyone else used such a power build?

 

No, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. It eliminates a lot of the paperwork that comes with Aid and is a lot neater to deal with on a character sheet.